A wen Jamaica a go get rid a this foolishness!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Dr.Dudd]

Re: A wen Jamaica a go get rid a this foolishness!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: illuzion</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jah_yout</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: illuzion</div><div class="ubbcode-body">whats wrong with being knighted???

find something else to be preturbed about.. this false pride and foolish &quot;rebellion&quot; against the queen as head of state has been done a million times over. Get over it. </div></div>

the knight thing i don't care about...but are you in favor of the british queen being jamaica's head of state indefinitely? </div></div>

no, I'm in favor of PJ Patterson or Portia Simpson being head..
Heck how bout Zeeks or Jim Brown?
This debate been flagged to death. Its a brain dead debate of ZERO consequence.

This is one of those easy target for the wannabe Rebels...

if y'all want sure lets debate it, heck i got a few hours to waste </div></div>At least we can vote them out.

If on the other hand she becomes mentally disturbed and start behaving worse then the 2 you politicians you named, we are stuck with her, and if her successor decides to return to slavery, we are really stuck in a pool of Shhhhaving cream.. Monarchy is based on the concentration of power in the hands on a person which the citizens now becomes subjects and have no tool to rid themselves of him/her. Monarchy should have been declared illegal under international laws. No people should be ruled. They should be served by those they themselves choose to do so..

[Dr.Dudd]

Re: A wen Jamaica a go get rid a this foolishness!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: illuzion</div><div class="ubbcode-body">by the way, the Queen is the head of state for Canada for example.
yet nuff a them Jamaican &quot;purist&quot; bleach a Canadian Commisson fi get guh tell lie and get a visitor visa, then run whey as soon as dem foot touch the airport.

</div></div>If Canadians agree Im OK with that,but that's their right,and I am not going to mimic them ideas. sonce I don't klniw what is their motivation

[j-kid]

Re: A wen Jamaica a go get rid a this foolishness!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: neutral</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Humano</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

I must say, though, that Patrick Allen (now Sir Patrick) does look a little awkward in the photo. </div></div>

Yes,and so he should,he is not in the correct position for receiving the nighthood,someone should have briefed him on the correct protocol.
At least one knee should be making contact with the floor,dude should have been <span style="font-weight: bold">kneeling</span> for his knighthood,not looking like him desperately waan go a tilet. </div></div>

I think he felt dat, if him did kneel all di way dung, him might not hav been able fi get back up.

[j-kid]

Re: A wen Jamaica a go get rid a this foolishness!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: neutral</div><div class="ubbcode-body">[I am almost certain that not one female on this board would object to being married to a knight,....the wife of a knight is automatically titled a <span style="font-weight: bold">lady</span>.
</div></div>

Som ah dem aan yah could not bi ah Lady if dem tried, soh di title would bi wasted.


<span style="font-style: italic">Did I say dat out loud?</span> Oops!

[illuzion]

Re: A wen Jamaica a go get rid a this foolishness!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr.Dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
At least we can vote them out.

<span style="font-weight: bold">If on the other hand she becomes mentally disturbed and start behaving worse then the 2 you politicians you named, we are stuck with her, and if her successor decides to return to slavery, we are really stuck in a pool of Shhhhaving cream.. </span>Monarchy is based on the concentration of power in the hands on a person which the citizens now becomes subjects and have no tool to rid themselves of him/her. Monarchy should have been declared illegal under international laws. No people should be ruled. They should be served by those they themselves choose to do so.. </div></div>

thats a ridiculious agrument.
Jamaicans should be concerned about Queen Elizabeth becoming senile and should be concerned about the return of slavery as decreed by one of the Queen's successors??
What century u livin in? What world you living in???

[Dyoll_73]

Re: A wen Jamaica a go get rid a this foolishness!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">how has the queen helped us in our two-party state bliss?</div></div>

The question to be answered honesty is: how has the Queen, <span style="font-weight: bold">as Jamaica's current Head of State</span>, hindered Jamaica's progress?

[Tuff Gong]

Re: A wen Jamaica a go get rid a this foolishness!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Humano</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tuff Gong</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think we should hang on for dear life on to the <span style="font-family: 'Arial Black'">Privy Council</span>! </div></div>



Here's my take on that: As a staunch opponent of the death penalty, and knowing that the UK Privy Council is not in favour of it, I would have to admit that I don't mind that capital punishment cases, in particular, end up at the Privy Council. I see that the last execution in Jamaica took place roughly 22 years ago because the then JLP government had placed a moratorium on the death penalty. Of course, the Privy Council doesn't decide only murder cases, but it's a trade-off I'm comfortable with - at the moment. Also, its unbiased detachment from Jamaica's political wranglings is a good thing.

The two major parties NOW favour the death penalty (some prominent JLP parliamentarians had opposed it). During the Patterson administration, knowing that the Privy Council is likely to rule against the execution, and because hanging would give the <span style="font-weight: bold">impression</span> that the government is doing something about crime (it actually wasn't), and because both Barbados and Trinidad and Tobago had signaled that they favoured the death penalty, Patterson pushed for the Caribbean Court of Justice (CCJ) to replace the Privy Council - and for other reasons, to be fair, that had to do with the development of a Caribbean jurisprudence.</div></div>

My friend you are falling into the trap of Privy Council as Crutch Camp.
The Privy Council did not stop the Jamaican Government from hanging anyone in Jamaica. The last Government to hang anyone was JLP Government as you noted but I don't think they called moratorium on hanging. Traditionally the JLP was more in favour of hanging than the PNP and it was a PNP Government because of huge division in the their ranks about hanging who held the first conscience vote on the matter, Mr. PJoke Patterson was one of the members the PNP who voted against hanging.

When the PNP came to power a matter that started under the JLP went to the Privy Council <span style="font-style: italic">[citation needed]</span>. The Privy Council decided in favour of the Appellant because it held that the State took too long to arrive at a decision on his fate causing him to spend to many years waiting to be hanged or have his sentence vacated.

When the JLP hanged an ex-cop the PNP used it in their Campaign to stir up the Security Forces against the JLP by claiming that they were hanging police. The PNP having put their collective feet in their mouths caused the law to be changed providing two categories of Capital Murder, this occasioned another Law Suit surrounding Mandatory Death Penalty, that ended in another defeat for the State at the Privy Council.

So the PNP politicized the Death Penalty issues then spent 19 years blaming the JLP, the HROs and the Privy Council for a situation created wholly and solely by the PNP.
The current crop of JLP are still of the hanging kind so there is absolutely no reason at all for them to wait one second more to fire up the Gallows or the Shooting Range all they need to do is to get the cases and appeals done in a timely fashion, abolish the two tier Capital Murder convictions or find good candidates who fit the Hanging Profile and break their necks.
Which is where we come to the Privy Council again. The Privy Council is not only protecting Jamaicans in murder cases but in every Judicial matter which can be legally appealed past the Local Appeals Court and from Jamaican Governments who have proven over time, be they PNP or JLP, to be cruel and willing to disregard the human rights of Jamaican Citizens.

Until Jamaica become a free State where you can criticize the PNP, JLP, The Rich and the Powerful without fear of bodily harm I vote that we keep the Privy Council.
Until Jamaica becomes a State where Justice is affordable and timely I vote that we keep the Privy Council.

[Dyoll_73]

Re: A wen Jamaica a go get rid a this foolishness!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The Privy Council did not stop the Jamaican Government from hanging anyone in Jamaica. The last Government to hang anyone was JLP Government as you noted but I don't think they called moratorium on hanging. Traditionally the JLP was more in favour of hanging than the PNP and it was a PNP Government because of huge division in the their ranks about hanging who held the first conscience vote on the matter, Mr. PJoke Patterson was one of the members the PNP who voted against hanging.

When the PNP came to power a matter that started under the JLP went to the Privy Council <span style="font-weight: bold">[citation needed]*</span>. The Privy Council decided in favour of the Appellant because it held that the State took too long to arrive at a decision on his fate causing him to spend to many years waiting to be hanged or have his sentence vacated.</div></div>

I think you're referring to the Pratt-Morgan case here.

A couple of things: First, a moratorium on the death penalty was declared in 1988. I didn't mean to imply that the JLP was anti-death penalty, but only that during the 90s some prominent members, most notably, Delroy Chuck and Oswald Harding, were vociferously opposed to it. This was when they were in Opposition. I had gotten the impression that even Seaga was opposed to it, though in recent months, he has made some exceptions. I don't have a head count, but I did get the sense that there were enough influential members in the JLP who opposed it, that should they form the next government, they would have sought to abolish it. Of course, over time, public support for the death penalty increased as the crime situation worsened, and more politicians bowed to the pressure, and by the time the JLP came to power, there was hardly any momentum towards abolishing it. I note that neither Delroy Chuck nor Oswald Harding, two eminent legal minds, were chosen for the position of Attorney General. Chuck was the JLP shadow minister for Justice and legal matters, and Harding was Attorney General in the last JLP government. I'm not implying a causal relationship here.

Second, the Privy Council <span style="font-weight: bold">did</span> stop executions in Jamaica when it ruled that certain provisions of the <span style="font-style: italic">Offenses Against the People Act</span> of 1992 violated the Jamaican constitution, thereby vacating the death sentences issued in the Jamaican trial courts, and mandating the re-sentencing of the convicts. As such, as things stand, any death penalty case coming before the Privy Council will be set aside and sent back for re-sentencing. And even if those amendments to the Act of 1992 (which you mentioned) are stripped by Jamaica's parliament, the Privy Council may still find a way to set aside those death sentences in the cases which may come before it. This will be the case as long as the Privy Council remains Jamaica's final appellate court, and why I personally don't mind that body being Jamaica's final court.

I'm concerned about the quality of justice that will be dispensed in the CCJ, and the support for the death penalty which that body will surely uphold, is one of those concerns.

[Tuff Gong]

Re: A wen Jamaica a go get rid a this foolishness!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Humano</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Second, the Privy Council <span style="font-weight: bold">did</span> stop executions in Jamaica when it ruled that certain provisions of the <span style="font-style: italic">Offenses Against the People Act</span> of 1992 violated the Jamaican constitution, thereby vacating the death sentences issued in the Jamaican trial courts, and mandating the re-sentencing of the convicts. As such, as things stand, any death penalty case coming before the Privy Council will be set aside and sent back for re-sentencing.</div></div>

Based on this argument how can you say the Privy Council stopped executions?
First things first. The State of Jamaica messed with the laws and put the new guidelines in contravention of the Constitution of Jamaica.
A Petition goes to the Privy Council and the Petitioner wins.
It was the State that caused the problems in the first place.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Humano</div><div class="ubbcode-body">And even if those amendments to the Act of 1992 (which you mentioned) are stripped by Jamaica's parliament, the Privy Council <span style="font-family: 'Arial Black'">may still </span>find a way to set aside those death sentences in the cases which may come before it.</div></div>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Humano</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This <span style="font-family: 'Arial Black'">will be</span> the case as long as the Privy Council remains Jamaica's final appellate court, and why I personally don't mind that body being Jamaica's final court.</div></div>

Even though we are in agreement you cannot move from <span style="font-family: 'Arial Black'">may still</span> to <span style="font-family: 'Arial Black'">will be</span>, that is <span style="font-family: 'Arial Black'">reaching</span>! So far the Privy Council has demonstrated that it will not act outside the Constitution of Jamaica and it is unlikely to do so in the future.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Humano</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm concerned about the quality of justice that will be dispensed in the CCJ, and the support for the death penalty which that body will surely uphold, is one of those concerns.</div></div>

I am not worried about the CCJ, the PNP in it dishonesty setup this phantom fight between the Privy Council and the CCJ. There is no fight. The members of the Privy Council are all Members called to bar under Common and other laws of the Commonwealth as the members of the CCJ. Caribbean Jurists also sit on the Bench in the Privy Council, so why would arguments that find favour in the Privy Council be any different than the ones that receive similar traction in the CCJ?

No the problem is Jamaican Justice from the man in the street to our Appellate Courts. Justice in Jamaica is expensive, not timely and for the most part corrupt. The success of the Privy Council is the fact that for the most part the poor and the powerless if and when they come to Council get a fair shake, it as simple as that.

The Failed State of Jamaica is corrupt, brutal and care nothing about Human Rights of Jamaican Citizens, the Privy Council is the last great hope before we descend into total anarchy, it is the only Institution that have worked for us in a long time.

[Marilyn]

Re: A wen Jamaica a go get rid a this foolishness!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Humano</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">how has the queen helped us in our two-party state bliss?</div></div>

The question to be answered honesty is: how has the Queen, <span style="font-weight: bold">as Jamaica's current Head of State</span>, hindered Jamaica's progress? </div></div>

That's a good one

[britisha]

Re: A wen Jamaica a go get rid a this foolishness!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: J kid</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: neutral</div><div class="ubbcode-body">[I am almost certain that not one female on this board would object to being married to a knight,....the wife of a knight is automatically titled a <span style="font-weight: bold">lady</span>.
</div></div>

Som ah dem aan yah could not bi ah Lady if dem tried, soh di title would bi wasted.


<span style="font-style: italic">Did I say dat out loud?</span> Oops! </div></div>

<span style="font-weight: bold">WHAT</span> is a LADY anyways? Tel mi noh?

[neutral]

Re: A wen Jamaica a go get rid a this foolishness!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: britisha</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

<span style="font-weight: bold">WHAT</span> is a LADY anyways? Tel mi noh? </div></div>


Here are a couple nice ladies....l..

<object width="425" height="350"> <param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/7RWOIVm4MfI"></param> <param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param> <embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/7RWOIVm4MfI" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"> </embed></object>

[jah_yout]

Re: A wen Jamaica a go get rid a this foolishness!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: illuzion</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jah_yout</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: illuzion</div><div class="ubbcode-body">whats wrong with being knighted???

find something else to be preturbed about.. this false pride and foolish &quot;rebellion&quot; against the queen as head of state has been done a million times over. Get over it. </div></div>

the knight thing i don't care about...but are you in favor of the british queen being jamaica's head of state indefinitely? </div></div>

no, I'm in favor of PJ Patterson or Portia Simpson being head..
Heck how bout Zeeks or Jim Brown?
This debate been flagged to death. Its a brain dead debate of ZERO consequence.

This is one of those easy target for the wannabe Rebels...

if y'all want sure lets debate it, heck i got a few hours to waste </div></div>

so you are in favor that jamaicans should continue to honor their former slavers &amp; colonizers as their head otherwise you are a 'wannabe rebel'?
i got a couple of hours too

[jah_yout]

Re: A wen Jamaica a go get rid a this foolishness!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Humano</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">how has the queen helped us in our two-party state bliss?</div></div>

The question to be answered honesty is: how has the Queen, <span style="font-weight: bold">as Jamaica's current Head of State</span>, hindered Jamaica's progress? </div></div>

in physical terms it's hard to quantify, but in mental-(slavery) terms it is obvious-

our official head of state is the queen of an empire that raped our home continent brought our foreparents over in chains then attempted to re-write history to give the world an impression that we were inferior beings, and that many of our ancestors fought &amp; gave their lives to defeat for our 'independence'...

[britisha]

Re: A wen Jamaica a go get rid a this foolishness!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: neutral</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: britisha</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

<span style="font-weight: bold">WHAT</span> is a LADY anyways? Tel mi noh? </div></div>


Here are a couple nice ladies....l..

<object width="425" height="350"> <param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/7RWOIVm4MfI"></param> <param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param> <embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/7RWOIVm4MfI" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"> </embed></object> </div></div>

Dem look like someboddie's moddah...mantuh!!

Wondah a which wan a di faddah?