A wen Jamaica a go get rid a this foolishness!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Morpheous]

Re: A wen Jamaica a go get rid a this foolishness!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Humano</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">how has the queen helped us in our two-party state bliss?</div></div>

The question to be answered honesty is: how has the Queen, <span style="font-weight: bold">as Jamaica's current Head of State</span>, hindered Jamaica's progress? </div></div>
A typical whiteman rebuttal. Tell me, are you one of those that say... I hate black ppl but quickly turn to a black colleague and say but not you.. you're different?

[Morpheous]

Re: A wen Jamaica a go get rid a this foolishness!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: neutral</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dahJahPawtTwo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">as long as we worship yt ppl dem tingya naw stap suh mi naah guh worry bout freedom is not fi everyone but de few.
De house knee-gro be<span style="font-style: italic">lie</span>ved he was free </div></div>

Lol!....you guys are funny,...unnu cut de people dem some slack,...the title of knighthood are predominantly reserved for <span style="font-weight: bold">white people </span> it is only a very tiny few people of colour that receives the knighthood........regardless of what anyone may think of the practise the title of <span style="font-weight: bold">sir</span> whatever carries much prestige.

I am almost certain that not one female on this board would object to being married to a knight,....the wife of a knight is automatically titled a <span style="font-weight: bold">lady</span>.
</div></div>
Nuetral Jamaicans and their history with the monarchy cannot be ignored when these issues arise. I understand where you are coming from but let me put it another way.

Imagine the jews lining up and falling over themselves to be knighted by Hitler? Yes, the two can be compared as they often do in terms of the astrocities that took place only difference is one holocaust left many more millions dead after it went on for hundreds of years.

This is the context in which this issue is looked at and seen by many Jamaicans. Other races and cultures have a different history with the monarchy so for them the outlook on the monarchy and its traditions are different. This is something I don't expect many white people to understand.

[jah_yout]

Re: A wen Jamaica a go get rid a this foolishness!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

yu seet;
i remember the first time (a while back) i posted about the irony of jamaica's head of state being the british queen i was promptly laughed off the board; people asking why i'm concerning myself over nothing...
we're pretty much the only people who never see anything wrong with honoring our former oppressors &amp; downgrading our own;
if it was a post about haile selassie or mugabe or any african leader you would be sure to see x amount of hateful or negative comments, but you will rarely see anything negative from jamaicans about the british or any other european monarchy;

[Morpheous]

Re: A wen Jamaica a go get rid a this foolishness!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

There is an intelligent poet by the name of <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="color: #000099">Benjamin Zephaniah</span></span> who publicly refused his knighthood for an OBE. Do a google on him and search his works on youtube.

Conscious breddah. I hasen to add that he also work with many white children in the schools teaching them peotry and expressions. They can't get enough of him. He is a well renouned and repected poet in the UK.

[Morpheous]

Re: A wen Jamaica a go get rid a this foolishness!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Marilyn</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Notable honorary recipients
Bernard Haitink, KBE (1977)
Bob Geldof, KBE (1986)
Taher al-Masri, GBE (1988)
Alfred Brendel, KBE (1989)
Brent Scowcroft, KBE (1993)
Raymond Sackler, KBE (1995)
James Wolfensohn, KBE (1995)
André Previn, KBE (1996)
Edison Arantes do Nascimento, KBE (1997) (known professionally as &quot;Pelé&quot
Leighton W. Smith, Jr., KBE (1997)
Harri Holkeri, KBE (1999)
George J. Mitchell, GBE (1999)
Wesley Clark, KBE (2000)
Billy Graham, KBE (2001)
Steven Spielberg, KBE (2001)
James D. Watson, KBE (2001)
Plácido Domingo, KBE (2002)
Niall FitzGerald, KBE (2002)
Rudy Giuliani, KBE (2002)
Alan Greenspan, KBE (2002)
Ann Murray, DBE (2002)
William Trevor, KBE (2002)
Sam E. Jonah, KBE (2003)
Murray Perahia, KBE (2004)
Tommy Franks, KBE (2004)
Bill Gates, KBE (2004)
Paul David Hewson, KBE (2007) (known professionally as &quot;Bono&quot
Edward M. Kennedy, KBE (2009)
John Warner, KBE (2009)

</div></div>

There are also those that refuse the knighthood like:

Michael Frayn - writer,
John Cleese - comedian,
Kenneth Branagh - actor,
Geraldine McEwan - actress,
Honor Blackman - actress,
Dawn French and Jennifer Saunders - comedians,
Albert Finney - actor,
David Bowie, singer,
Alan Bennett - playwright,
Roald Dahl - author,
Aldous Huxley - author,
Evelyn Waugh - author,

Source
A google will reveal many more.

[jah_yout]

Re: A wen Jamaica a go get rid a this foolishness!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



read back a few posts; we touch that in this thread already; ras-pect!

[Morpheous]

Re: A wen Jamaica a go get rid a this foolishness!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I admire his work. This guy is a brillianr poet

[Tuff Gong]

Re: A wen Jamaica a go get rid a this foolishness!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jah_yout</div><div class="ubbcode-body">yu seet;
i remember the first time (a while back) i posted about the irony of jamaica's head of state being the british queen i was promptly laughed off the board; people asking why i'm concerning myself over nothing...
we're pretty much the only people who never see anything wrong with honoring our former oppressors &amp; downgrading our own;
if it was a post about haile selassie or mugabe or any african leader you would be sure to see x amount of hateful or negative comments, but you will rarely see anything negative from jamaicans about the british or any other european monarchy;
</div></div>

The Classic straw man-argument. When did you post that and got laughed off the board. Which people laughed you off?
You cannot prove it so don't bring that here deal with the arguments that are presented now.
Of course you go deeper in the victim hood by name Mugabe and Selassie I seriously?
Mughabe who is responsible for the near total destruction of his own people and Haile Selassie who allowed Ethiopian peoples to starve to death are the only other choices you have against a queen who you are claiming represents racism?

The kind of idiotic arguments that you use in your justification forces one into an invidious position to defend a Queen as the Titular Head of State of Jamaica even though is not my desired position.

[illuzion]

Re: A wen Jamaica a go get rid a this foolishness!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tuff Gong</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jah_yout</div><div class="ubbcode-body">yu seet;
i remember the first time (a while back) i posted about the irony of jamaica's head of state being the british queen i was promptly laughed off the board; people asking why i'm concerning myself over nothing...
we're pretty much the only people who never see anything wrong with honoring our former oppressors &amp; downgrading our own;
if it was a post about haile selassie or mugabe or any african leader you would be sure to see x amount of hateful or negative comments, but you will rarely see anything negative from jamaicans about the british or any other european monarchy;
</div></div>

The Classic straw man-argument. When did you post that and got laughed off the board. Which people laughed you off?
You cannot prove it so don't bring that here deal with the arguments that are presented now.
Of course you go deeper in the victim hood by name Mugabe and Selassie I seriously?
Mughabe who is responsible for the near total destruction of his own people and Haile Selassie who allowed Ethiopian peoples to starve to death are the only other choices you have against a queen who you are claiming represents racism?

The kind of idiotic arguments that you use in your justification forces one into an invidious position to defend a Queen as the Titular Head of State of Jamaica even though is not my desired position. </div></div>

Finally, smaddy wid sense.

[britisha]

Re: A wen Jamaica a go get rid a this foolishness!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Not to mention comparing her to Hitler. Where do these people get these ideas from? Why can't ppl make their point without these outlandish comments, how do they make them look, really?

[Panajar]

Re: A wen Jamaica a go get rid a this foolishness!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Marilyn</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> but I am a big lover of traditions (that do no harm).Jamaicans cling tightly and proudly to their culture, respect the culture of others as well. </div></div>

&quot;No harm&quot; !! Are you serious??? ...Dis jus like NAACP leada a bow to david duke..The British monarchy represent nuttin but death and destruction to Jamaicans of African decent, or at least the one them wey know dem self.

[Dyoll_73]

Re: A wen Jamaica a go get rid a this foolishness!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

TG,
When the Judicial Committee of the Privy Council vacated the death sentences in the Pratt-Morgan case and mandated re-sentencing of the convicts, re-sentencing meant, in effect, a commutation of the death sentence to life imprisonment, as was the case with at least Earl Pratt who served thirty years in prison since his conviction and was released just last year. It didn't, logically, mean that the original trial court must re-issue a death sentence.

The Privy Council based its decision on a simple legal reasoning: the death sentence constitutes &quot;cruel and inhumane&quot; punishment in violation of Jamaica's constitution. In the Pratt-Morgan case, it ruled that the long delay in execution itself was cruel and inhumane. Now, if the Jamaican government thought that by removing other appeal options (such as the UN Optional Protocol - which the PNP government withdrew from - and the OAS tribunal - I don't remember the specific name of this body), and by making the way for more expeditious appeals, that this would cut the time-frame between sentencing and execution, and that the Law Lords would uphold death sentences, they would be wrong. The Privy Council would still interpret Jamaica's constitutional provision against cruel and inhumane treatment to strike down any death penalty case coming before it. It's just that the Pratt Morgan case presented some specific circumstances which the Council used in forming its opinion.

Right now, any death penalty case going before the Privy Council would be ruled unconstitutional. So, yes, the Privy Council has stopped executions in Jamaica - as long as it remains Jamaica's final court of appeals.

As to the CCJ, it is currently comprised of two Trinidadians (including the President of the Court), two Guyanese, a Vincentian, an Englishman and a Dutchman. Reading their biographies, they appear to be legal luminaries, all distinguished.

I have two major concerns with this court. First, it seems that criticism of this Court from people within the region as a whole (not just Jamaicans, and the JLP) that the Court would be a &quot;hanging court&quot; is not without some merit. While the Court has decided mostly civil cases as opposed to criminal, so far four death penalty cases have come before it. In three of the four, it dismissed the appeals and upheld the death sentences, and in the fourth, and its most recent, it dismissed an appeal, but only on technical/procedural grounds, refusing to look at the merits of the appeal, and allowing for the case to return to the Court. Apparently, the appeal was not filed properly. We can reasonably assume that the death sentence will be upheld when that case returns to the Court.

I expected this. The governments of the region resented the fact that the Privy Council frowned on the death penalty, and for political reasons, the death penalty being a vote getter, they pushed for an alternative. A sticking point was always regarding how judges would be appointed, and some human rights organizations in the region had expressed concern that that pro-death penalty judges would dominate the court, although in fairness, the CCJ does more than decide criminal cases, as I mentioned above. This seems to be the case. I note that there are two judges who come from outside of CAricom - the Englishman, and the gentleman from the Netherland Antilles.

Second, in the cases from Barbados and Guyana that it has decided so far, I don't see anywhere where it asserts powers of judicial review - determining the constitutionality of acts of parliaments in those countries. BTW, this is the same criticism I have of the Jamaica Court of Appeals - the ease with which it defers to Parliament. So far, the CCJ has mostly upheld civil cases from the appeals courts in those two countries, setting aside rulings in a few, but not saying that such and such statute is unconstitutional in the first place. Just as the Jamaica Court of Appeals did not strike down the 1992 amendments to the <span style="font-style: italic">Offenses Against the Person Act</span> which the Privy Council ruled unconstitutional. True judicial independence means having the powers to declare that certain acts of parliament or administrative regulations in countries under its jurisdiction are unconstitutional as the case may be, and not simply take the view that legislatures must decide. The Privy Council does assert its powers of judicial review.

As I've said before, my preference is a Jamaican Supreme Court as the final court of appeals. This would mean that the current judiciary would have to be restructured. Currently, the Jamaican Supreme Court is not <span style="font-style: italic">supreme</span> as it pretty much functions as a trial court, with the Court of Appeals above it, and the Privy Council as the final court.

The judiciary could be restructured in three levels as follows:
1. Courts of original jurisdiction - Parish resident magistrates courts, Kingston Circuit Court, and all other trial courts.

2. The Jamaica Court of Appeals - an intermediate appellate court for all matters civil and criminal - made up of 3-5 judges.

3. The Jamaica Supreme Court - the final appellate court - consisting of 5-7 judges, the president of which would be designated the 'Chief Justice of Jamaica.'

Obviously, I reject the view that competent jurists of the highest integrity cannot be found in Jamaica. I'm not making a straw man argument here; I've heard this opinion expressed in Jamaica. The key will be in how they are selected.

Of course, this judicial restructure would be pleasing to me only after the death penalty is abolished in Jamaica, and the country moves towards one where justice is available for all.



BTW, Sorry for the long-winded response. I have a tendency to wax verbose on these matters. My apologies.

[Morpheous]

Re: A wen Jamaica a go get rid a this foolishness!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: britisha</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Not to mention comparing her to Hitler. Where do these people get these ideas from? Why can't ppl make their point without these outlandish comments, how do they make them look, really? </div></div>
... go learn some history.

[Morpheous]

Re: A wen Jamaica a go get rid a this foolishness!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Panajar</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Dis jus like NAACP leada a bow to david duke..The British monarchy represent nuttin but death and destruction to Jamaicans of African decent, or at least the one them wey know dem self.</div></div>
Many coconuts up in here who don't know their history or that of Jamaica. If these arguments were used against jews the word anti semetic would have been mentioned already.

Some of the good and humane treatment african slaves were privileged to recieve by the british.

Slave being branded


Slaves clamped in irons


Slave being whipped


Rounded up like cattle

[Morpheous]

Re: A wen Jamaica a go get rid a this foolishness!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Look at the african baby in the saint's hand. What a lovely sight


Compassionate master


Harry sees the joke. Don't you?