Patwa fainali av wan raitin sistim.

**missus_vegas** · 07-04-2009, 04:55 PM

Re: Patwa fainali av wan raitin sistim.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: f0rTyLeGz</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: missus_vegas</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
US spell centah as center. Canada spell it as centre...it still mean di sed ting.....
Canadian french speak diff from African french or even France french...and is still french.

each spanish speaking country has a diff way of saying certain word/ phrases etc....is still spanish. </div></div>
True. That is why Jamaican patois is still English. </div></div>

well if a English man listen to di video above i doubt he will understand 75% of what is being said. he sure as hell wouldnt be calling it English.

**missus_vegas** · 07-04-2009, 05:01 PM

Re: Patwa fainali av wan raitin sistim.

if an English person has to "learn" patwah in order to understand it den in wid my likkle pea brain dat simple mean seh is not english.

if mi tell one canadian seh di way how dem house dutty and chaccka chaccka fawtyleg and chink a breed up in deh dem nah go undastand. dem qucik fi label mi as racis bcus of the word chinck.

**Dr.Dudd** · 07-04-2009, 05:17 PM

Re: Patwa fainali av wan raitin sistim.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Iron_Man</div><div class="ubbcode-body">@ Britisha

Yeah, they definitely don't only speak Haitian Kreyol in Haiti. They speak it on differnt caribbean islands, south florida, new york, etc. There are even different dialects of it and they can understand each other just fine. Ex: Haitian Kreyol & Antillean Creole (Spoken in Martinique, Guadaloupe, French Guiana, etc.) The same can also be said for Jamaican Creole. <span style="color: #006600">Different dialects of Jamaican Creole are spoken</span> in not only places like South FL, NYC, Boston, etc, but also Belize, the coast of Costa Rica, The coast of Panama, the coast of Nicaragua, the Cayman Islands, Trinidad & Tobago, Barbados, Bahamas, Antigua, Grenada, Guyana...

There is even a form of Jamaican Creole spoken in Sierra Leone, Africa! This is because when the slaves were freed in Jamaica, a huge population of them went back to Sierra Leone and brought Patwa with them and now that dialect of Jamaican Creole (which is known in Sierra Leone as <span style="color: #006600">Krio</span>) is now the lingua franca (the laguage of the people) just like Patwa (patois) has been in Jamaica.

I think it's about time that that they standardized <span style="color: #006600">Jamiekan</span>. </div></div>So how does Haitian creole help them when they wish to improve their society vy aquirong knowledge that is not published in Haitian creole?
How helpful is in in the internet for instance?
I have;pointed this out before and I will say it again. If the majority of European Jews had not used a unique language to themselves, it would be much more difficult to separate them from the rest of Caucasians. Many would have been caught, but much more would have survived. As a matter of fact many of those who survived did so because their German or official language was impeccable and all they had to do was to go somewhere no one knew they were Jewish and assume new names.
That is beside the point. a language is a tool of communication, first and whatever one want to do with it after. During the reign of Baby Doc they changed the official language that the children were educated it to creole, and after that the Haitians that came to Jamaica after high school had a big problem to learn English. because all the translation manuals had translation from modern languages to english. even the most recent Haitians that immigrate have greater difficulty in learning English that the ones that were educated in french. Since they can find french to English translators manuals,but no creole to English translators manuals. Most People only from their experience. others don't even learn from theirs. while there are those who learn from not only the experience of others, but teach what they learn. It does not help of a lot of people use a language, if ther is no advance knowledge recorded in it. Iy ios easier to learn advance knowledge if it is recorded in the language you wer educated it.

**Dr.Dudd** · 07-04-2009, 05:23 PM

Re: Patwa fainali av wan raitin sistim.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: missus_vegas</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr.Dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Iron_Man</div><div class="ubbcode-body">UWI has been working on making a standard Jamaican Creole writing system and it's finally done!
Dem av werk buk dem an vidyo dem fi tiich di nuu sitim, an dem a chrai fi tiich it ina di skuul dem fi promuot praid fi Jamieka mada tong.

So here is this music video that they made to promote it:

<object width="425" height="350"> <param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/2rx4FAIxaTE&feature=channel_page"></param> <param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param> <embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/2rx4FAIxaTE&feature=channel_page" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"> </embed></object> </div></div>You mean they spend money on that?
What about something that could help more Jamaican kids to communicate in english?
So what we are going t do wit hit?
talk to each other better?
That is what I call a headless chicken.
just because some organization that has no interest in what is good for Jamaica gave them some money they jump and waste taxpayers facilities to produce a useless or damaging product. They have been trying every strategy to sideline Jamaicans like they did with the Haitians who's language is only spoken in their country. I suppose in a few decades Jamaican s will be like Haitians who's education is limited to texts written in a language that has very little knowledge recorded in it. </div></div>

i beg to differ. a long time dem fi me patwah di offical second language. or atleast official second dialect. it is the day to day language of the majority. and neweh pan di wurl u go ppl ask...oh do u speak jamaican.... </div></div> They did it in Haiti in the 70's. since the 70's the official language is creole and what it does to th eones educated it it is ti make it difficult for them to immigrate to France. They use to immigrate to France, they don't speak the language. and they find it difficult to find manuals to translate from creole to English in the US.

**missus_vegas** · 07-04-2009, 05:26 PM

Re: Patwa fainali av wan raitin sistim.

i didnt say dem fi stop teach english...and maybe me stupid but i didnte get eh idea that the video is saying dont teach enlish eidda

**Dr.Dudd** · 07-04-2009, 05:38 PM

Re: Patwa fainali av wan raitin sistim.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: missus_vegas</div><div class="ubbcode-body">i didnt say dem fi stop teach english...and maybe me stupid but i didnte get eh idea that the video is saying dont teach enlish eidda </div></div> That is the plan as soon as it become the official language.

The next step is to make up statistics to prove that children learn better in it.
Then the children have to be educated in it.
The courts legal documents and business will be conducted in it.
English will be taught as a foreign language That is what the UWI program that was paid for by the Swiss organization goal is and being introduced to nutralize the effect of Jamaicans on world affairs.
remember Jamaica has always been at th efore front of demanding human rights in Africa. While China is trying to get every student to lesarn english, Jamaica is trying to waste money on trying toget theirs tolesrn a language that no advance information is recotded it.

**missus_vegas** · 07-04-2009, 05:41 PM

Re: Patwa fainali av wan raitin sistim.

dis a get too serious fi mi now. mi gone back inna di shout box and back dung heart and home where i belong.

**Dyoll_73** · 07-04-2009, 05:44 PM

Re: Patwa fainali av wan raitin sistim.

This is one of the rare occasions when I agree with Doc - or to a large extent. I question whether this project is necessary, not because I look down on patois. I speak it everyday in my home; my six-year daughter knows lots of Jamaican words and expressions. I choose not to write more than, say, a sentence in patois on this board. It's harder to write and read, I find, than English. Just my opinion, folks.

**RcOmK** · 07-04-2009, 05:57 PM

Re: Patwa fainali av wan raitin sistim.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: f0rTyLeGz</div><div class="ubbcode-body">At the risk of having my head chopped off, I agree with DrDudd on this one.

I love Jamaican patois and I think it is gloriously creative, musical, poetic, and lively. That said, just as this gal is clearly pointing out, patois has no spelling rules. Do you think Blu would agree to this gals patois spelling rules? I think that the posters who attempt to write patois on Jams.com over all these years have a leg up on everyone when it comes to written patois.

But teaching it to children as the Jamaican Language would be counter productive, expensive, and detrimental to Jamaica. Just imagine the expense and time that it would take for Jamaican linguists and educators to come up with a dictionary of Jamaican patois, and agree? Or for all interested parties to agree on a primer for each grade for primary students?

Also, what would be the point of the government of Jamaica doing this impossible task? What possible benefits could come from making this happen?
</div></div>

First of all if you would have listened to the song properly, you would have heard that <span style="color: #006600">THERE ARE STANDARD SPELLING RULES!</span> That's one of the main points of the song! I think too many Jamaicans don't realize that Jamaican Creole is a language. LOOK IT UP!

Did you not get the point that the development of the Jamaican Creole writing system is finished? There <span style="color: #006600">IS NOW AN OFFICIAL WAY TO WRITE PATWA. IN FACT IT WAS JAMAICAN-BORN LINGUIST FREDERICK CASSIDY</span> who invented the writing system. Furthermore, the linguistics department of the University of The West Indies is just continuing his work. This isn't something they are thinking about doing! <span style="color: #006600">This is something that has been done and they are now moving forward from this.</span>

Furthermore, how will teaching it be detrimental to Jamaica? Teaching Patwa as well as continuing to teach English would instill national pride and cultural pride. And I don't see how "impossible" it would be for the <span style="color: #006600"><span style="font-weight: bold">LINGUISTICS department</span></span> of The University of the West Indies to continue this!

<span style="color: #660000"><span style="font-weight: bold">It's amazing to me that Jamaicans, of all people, would say that Patwa isn't a language and shouldn't be promoted. </span></span>

Sorry, but if anyone on this board thinks Patwa/Patois/Jamaican Creole isn't a <span style="color: #006600">LANGUAGE</span> then I suggest they take a 4 credit linguistics/cultural anthropology course.

p.s. it's not a dialect either. A dialect would be like a New Yorker accent vs. A southern accent or and Australian accent vs. a South African accent. In fact, Patwa, itself, has dialects: Bajan Creole, Bahamian Creole, Sierra Leone Krio, Belizean Kriol., etc.

**RcOmK** · 07-04-2009, 06:00 PM

Re: Patwa fainali av wan raitin sistim.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Humano</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This is one of the rare occasions when I agree with Doc - or to a large extent. I question whether this project is necessary, not because I look down on patois. I speak it everyday in my home; my six-year daughter knows lots of Jamaican words and expressions. I choose not to write more than, say, a sentence in patois on this board. It's harder to write and read, I find, than English. Just my opinion, folks. </div></div>

and that is because you were never formally taught Patwa with a standard writing/spelling system, which <span style="color: #006600">THEY NOW HAVE</span>.

**RcOmK** · 07-04-2009, 06:02 PM

Re: Patwa fainali av wan raitin sistim.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr.Dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: missus_vegas</div><div class="ubbcode-body">i didnt say dem fi stop teach english...and maybe me stupid but i didnte get eh idea that the video is saying dont teach enlish eidda </div></div> That is the plan as soon as it become the official language.

The next step is to make up statistics to prove that children learn better in it.
Then the children have to be educated in it.
The courts legal documents and business will be conducted in it.
English will be taught as a foreign language That is what the UWI program that was paid for by the Swiss organization goal is and being introduced to nutralize the effect of Jamaicans on world affairs.
remember Jamaica has always been at th efore front of demanding human rights in Africa. While China is trying to get every student to lesarn english, Jamaica is trying to waste money on trying toget theirs tolesrn a language that no advance information is recotded it. </div></div>

Jamaica would never REPLACE English with Jamaican Creole! That's just ridiculous! You are getting INCREDIBLY FAR FETCHED... but I'm not surprised... just about all of your posts go waaaay beyond reality.

**RcOmK** · 07-04-2009, 06:04 PM

Re: Patwa fainali av wan raitin sistim.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr.Dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: missus_vegas</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr.Dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Originally posted by Iron_Man

UWI has been working on making a standard Jamaican Creole writing system and it's finally done!
Dem av werk buk dem an vidyo dem fi tiich di nuu sitim, an dem a chrai fi tiich it ina di skuul dem fi promuot praid fi Jamieka mada tong.

So here is this music video that they made to promote it:

<object width="425" height="350"> <param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/2rx4FAIxaTE&feature=channel_page"></param> <param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param> <embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/2rx4FAIxaTE&feature=channel_page" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"> </embed></object> </div></div>You mean they spend money on that?
What about something that could help more Jamaican kids to communicate in english?
So what we are going t do wit hit?
talk to each other better?
That is what I call a headless chicken.
just because some organization that has no interest in what is good for Jamaica gave them some money they jump and waste taxpayers facilities to produce a useless or damaging product. They have been trying every strategy to sideline Jamaicans like they did with the Haitians who's language is only spoken in their country. I suppose in a few decades Jamaican s will be like Haitians who's education is limited to texts written in a language that has very little knowledge recorded in it. </div></div>

i beg to differ. a long time dem fi me patwah di offical second language. or atleast official second dialect. it is the day to day language of the majority. and neweh pan di wurl u go ppl ask...oh do u speak jamaican.... </div></div> They did it in Haiti in the 70's. since the 70's the official language is creole and what it does to th eones educated it it is ti make it difficult for them to immigrate to France. They use to immigrate to France, they don't speak the language. and they find it difficult to find manuals to translate from creole to English in the US.

Haiti has TWO OFFICIAL LANGUAGES: <span style="font-weight: bold">FRENCH AND HAITIAN CREOLE.</span>

<span style="color: #660000">LOOK IT UP!</span>

**RcOmK** · 07-04-2009, 06:07 PM

Re: Patwa fainali av wan raitin sistim.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: f0rTyLeGz</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: missus_vegas</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
US spell centah as center. Canada spell it as centre...it still mean di sed ting.....
Canadian french speak diff from African french or even France french...and is still french.

each spanish speaking country has a diff way of saying certain word/ phrases etc....is still spanish.

</div></div>
True. That is why Jamaican patois is still English. </div></div>

I'm sorry, but that definitely goes down as one of the <span style="color: #006600">most ignorant</span> statements i have ever seen/heard.

I'm telling you: 4 credit linguistics/cultural anthropology course should shake that complete and utter <span style="color: #660000">NONSENSE</span> out of your mind.

**Dr.Dudd** · 07-04-2009, 06:15 PM

Re: Patwa fainali av wan raitin sistim.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Iron_Man</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr.Dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: missus_vegas</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Originally posted by Dr.Dudd

Originally posted by Iron_Man

UWI has been working on making a standard Jamaican Creole writing system and it's finally done!
Dem av werk buk dem an vidyo dem fi tiich di nuu sitim, an dem a chrai fi tiich it ina di skuul dem fi promuot praid fi Jamieka mada tong.

So here is this music video that they made to promote it:

<object width="425" height="350"> <param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/2rx4FAIxaTE&feature=channel_page"></param> <param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param> <embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/2rx4FAIxaTE&feature=channel_page" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"> </embed></object> </div></div>You mean they spend money on that?
What about something that could help more Jamaican kids to communicate in english?
So what we are going t do wit hit?
talk to each other better?
That is what I call a headless chicken.
just because some organization that has no interest in what is good for Jamaica gave them some money they jump and waste taxpayers facilities to produce a useless or damaging product. They have been trying every strategy to sideline Jamaicans like they did with the Haitians who's language is only spoken in their country. I suppose in a few decades Jamaican s will be like Haitians who's education is limited to texts written in a language that has very little knowledge recorded in it. </div></div>

i beg to differ. a long time dem fi me patwah di offical second language. or atleast official second dialect. it is the day to day language of the majority. and neweh pan di wurl u go ppl ask...oh do u speak jamaican.... </div></div> They did it in Haiti in the 70's. since the 70's the official language is creole and what it does to th eones educated it it is ti make it difficult for them to immigrate to France. They use to immigrate to France, they don't speak the language. and they find it difficult to find manuals to translate from creole to English in the US.

Haiti has TWO OFFICIAL LANGUAGES: <span style="font-weight: bold">FRENCH AND HAITIAN CREOLE.</span>

<span style="color: #660000">LOOK IT UP!</span>

Of Course they had to do that because they had to have a language that they can communicate to others it. But they teach the children in creole and it stifles them in and out of the country since the children cannot read anything in any other language unless they pay money and learn that language. Dominican republic kids can go on line and use Spanish language Internet. Then can also use any translator on line to translate English to spanish. The average Haitian kid can't do that. The average Jamaican kid can still speak to a foreign tourist, how long after the change will be before Jamaicans that don't go to college will be able to speak or even use the Internet?

**RcOmK** · 07-04-2009, 06:15 PM

Re: Patwa fainali av wan raitin sistim.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: missus_vegas</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

US spell centah as center. Canada spell it as centre...it still mean di sed ting.....
Canadian french speak diff from African french or even France french...and is still french.

each spanish speaking country has a diff way of saying certain word/ phrases etc....is still spanish. </div></div>

Sorry dear, but your example is one of COMPARING DIALECTS OF THE SAME LANGUAGE.

A good example would be that English started out as a Creole language: it's a mix between French and German. In fact, in it's early stages, it was looked down upon for being a vulgar, low-class language.

French is another good example of a prestigious language that started out as a Creole Language; Mixed with Gaelic and Latin.

<span style="color: #006600">I'm not saying that Patwa will necessarily become as prominent as French and English today,</span> but the <span style="text-decoration: underline">point is that early peoples talked crap about those languages being unnecessary and a waste and look who has the last laugh. </span>

Patwa fainali av wan raitin sistim.

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