A proposal to sell Up Park Camp

[evanovitch]

Re: A proposal to sell Up Park Camp

u can imagine how di one plane n one helicopter wudds jampack wen dem a try do a 'quick' response bak to Kgn...lucky ting we ha di minibus packing experience...sometime mi tink seh dem a try figga out how to sell di islnd but get kip awn as ovaseers

[evanovitch]

Re: A proposal to sell Up Park Camp

Arite, di invasion ting is outside di realm of posiibility, yes, but y would u gi up elevation wid all it's advantages to di idea of military..,y gi up uphigh lookout fi plain plain lowdown?

[Dyoll_73]

Re: A proposal to sell Up Park Camp

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: uswe</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> i'm willing to bet that if/when Up Park Camp is sold, it will end up as a gated community
for the rich and won't form any part of the governments non-existant housing policy.</div></div>

I fear this may be the case too. If they do, it would be an opportunity lost. If they do, as I suggested, there wouldn't be a need for gating it off.


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Wheres the money going to come from to relocate
the JDF to Vermanfield?</div></div>

I haven't seen any estimates of the cost, but I'm sure that would have been factored in - in relation to the proposed sale price.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Newcastle is reportedly falling apart, another historic location thats worth a pretty penny, they'll probabbly sell that of too.</div></div>

I hope they don't sell it. I have lots of childhood memories from visiting there.

[Dyoll_73]

Re: A proposal to sell Up Park Camp

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gen</div><div class="ubbcode-body">dats the fuss ting cross mi mind

move dem clear guh a moco from the <span style="font-weight: bold">capital</span>..<span style="font-weight: bold">THE CAPITAL </span>I add, should in case of emergency dem can tek 10 hour fi reach and all hale can break loose.

seriously I wonder about the country weh mi bawn /0\ enuh ?</div></div>

What emergency would this be? An attack on Jamaica from a foreign invading force? A hurricane or other natural disaster? Civil unrest in Kingston?

In the third scenario, the JDF would be called in as a last resort. In the second scenario, a hurricane impact could be determined days in advance giving the govt adequate time to organize a response; an earthquake, for instance, is unpredictable and could strike anywhere on the island, which makes the location of the JDF headquarters irrelevant; of course, as you know, there are other military installations across the island. And in the first scenario, ... well, we already talked about that.

Do you realize, Gen, that Caymanas (if the JDF was headquartered there) would be nearer to Kingston than Andrews Air Force Base is to the White House, or the Capitol Building in Washington, DC?

[Dr.Dudd]

Re: A proposal to sell Up Park Camp

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Humano</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gen</div><div class="ubbcode-body">dats the fuss ting cross mi mind

move dem clear guh a moco from the <span style="font-weight: bold">capital</span>..<span style="font-weight: bold">THE CAPITAL </span>I add, should in case of emergency dem can tek 10 hour fi reach and all hale can break loose.

seriously I wonder about the country weh mi bawn /0\ enuh ?</div></div>

What emergency would this be? An attack on Jamaica from a foreign invading force? A hurricane or other natural disaster? Civil unrest in Kingston?

In the third scenario, the JDF would be called in as a last resort. In the second scenario, a hurricane impact could be determined days in advance giving the govt adequate time to organize a response; an earthquake, for instance, is unpredictable and could strike anywhere on the island, which makes the location of the JDF headquarters irrelevant; of course, as you know, there are other military installations across the island. And in the first scenario, ... well, we already talked about that.

Do you realize, Gen, that Caymanas (if the JDF was headquartered there) would be nearer to Kingston than Andrews Air Force Base is to the White House, or the Capitol Building in Washington, DC? </div></div> No it would not be nearer in as far as access is cincerned. nearer by inadequate number and appropriate overland transport , is still farther than by helicopter gunships and c5 air transport any day. take out a few bridges and demolish a few buildings blocking the highway and it is a new ballgame.

[Dyoll_73]

Re: A proposal to sell Up Park Camp

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr.Dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well we already have batllions of skilled road blockers. Si by th emilitary navigate through the miles of junk on the highways, the invaders will be in UP Park CAMP and th erest of the city waiting for what is left of them. </div></div>

These would have to be domestic invaders you're talking about here, doc.

[Dyoll_73]

Re: A proposal to sell Up Park Camp

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: evanovitch</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Arite, di invasion ting is outside di realm of posiibility, yes, but y would u gi up elevation wid all it's advantages to di idea of military..,y gi up uphigh lookout fi plain plain lowdown? </div></div>

To borrow a phrase: &quot;did mek mi laff.&quot;

&quot;elevation&quot;, &quot;uphigh lookout&quot;, &quot;lowdown&quot;. These are terms I would associate with military tactics of the 18th Century. They don't use cannons anymore. Military technology has evolved with radar, GPS, unmanned drones, etc.

[Dr.Dudd]

Re: A proposal to sell Up Park Camp

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Humano</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr.Dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well we already have batllions of skilled road blockers. Si by th emilitary navigate through the miles of junk on the highways, the invaders will be in UP Park CAMP and th erest of the city waiting for what is left of them. </div></div>

These would have to be domestic invaders you're talking about here, doc. </div></div> If the mode and the means of coups could be as easy as you wish, they woild be extinct due to ineffectiveness.

[Dr.Dudd]

Re: A proposal to sell Up Park Camp

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Humano</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: evanovitch</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Arite, di invasion ting is outside di realm of posiibility, yes, but y would u gi up elevation wid all it's advantages to di idea of military..,y gi up uphigh lookout fi plain plain lowdown? </div></div>

To borrow a phrase: &quot;did mek mi laff.&quot;

&quot;elevation&quot;, &quot;uphigh lookout&quot;, &quot;lowdown&quot;. These are terms I would associate with military tactics of the 18th Century. They don't use cannons anymore. Military technology has evolved with radar, GPS, unmanned drones, etc. </div></div> Believe it or not evenwi thh the advance telemetrics and remote push button warfare , they still need forward observers. and irrespectiove of what is used mostly thoe ones with the greater range of voew have th eadvantage.

[Dyoll_73]

Re: A proposal to sell Up Park Camp

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr.Dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Humano</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gen</div><div class="ubbcode-body">dats the fuss ting cross mi mind

move dem clear guh a moco from the <span style="font-weight: bold">capital</span>..<span style="font-weight: bold">THE CAPITAL </span>I add, should in case of emergency dem can tek 10 hour fi reach and all hale can break loose.

seriously I wonder about the country weh mi bawn /0\ enuh ?</div></div>

What emergency would this be? An attack on Jamaica from a foreign invading force? A hurricane or other natural disaster? Civil unrest in Kingston?

In the third scenario, the JDF would be called in as a last resort. In the second scenario, a hurricane impact could be determined days in advance giving the govt adequate time to organize a response; an earthquake, for instance, is unpredictable and could strike anywhere on the island, which makes the location of the JDF headquarters irrelevant; of course, as you know, there are other military installations across the island. And in the first scenario, ... well, we already talked about that.

Do you realize, Gen, that Caymanas (if the JDF was headquartered there) would be nearer to Kingston than Andrews Air Force Base is to the White House, or the Capitol Building in Washington, DC? </div></div> No it would not be nearer in as far as access is cincerned. nearer by inadequate number and appropriate overland transport , is still farther than by helicopter gunships and c5 air transport any day. take out a few bridges and demolish a few buildings blocking the highway and it is a new ballgame. </div></div>

I assure you, Caymanas would be nearer. By helicopter response to get to Kingston, it would be nearer; by trucks, even nearer - get on Mandella Highway into Kingston, whether by Spanish Town Road, or Washington Boulevard. Nearer than by entering DC from Prince Georges Country, Maryland. Go on Google Earth and see for yourself.

[andronian2]

Re: A proposal to sell Up Park Camp

Mi nuh know bout it's usefulness from a military standpoint (I always figured that if Jamaica were invaded a di criminal elementdem woulda mek dem fenneh more dan di army) but UPC is basically a national heritage site with historical significance.

Fort Charles a tek up nuff space a likl Port Ryal maybe wi fi sell dat too.
Not to mention all dem derelict building a tek up 'prime real estate' a Spanish Town square.

[SmoothOperator]

Re: A proposal to sell Up Park Camp

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: uswe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Humano, you make some good points, but i'm willing to bet that if/when Up Park Camp is sold, it will end up as a gated community
for the rich and won't form any part of the governments non-existant housing policy. </div></div>

Uhm, sorry, rich people know better than to live below HWT. I can't see a location that is a stone's throw from cross roads being anything other than a middle class development.

[evanovitch]

Re: A proposal to sell Up Park Camp

well yes since dem ha di informal pharmacists on notice fi second dem hiTech GPS n drone n sub etc...seet deh...dere was a reason to offah haven to SA pharmacists...dem wi lend whe di yaad budget much less defence budget/body no ha

[Dr.Dudd]

Re: A proposal to sell Up Park Camp

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: andronian2</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Mi nuh know bout it's usefulness from a military standpoint (I always figured that if Jamaica were invaded a di criminal elementdem woulda mek dem fenneh more dan di army) but UPC is basically a national heritage site with historical significance.

Fort Charles a tek up nuff space a likl Port Ryal maybe wi fi sell dat too.
Not to mention all dem derelict building a tek up 'prime real estate' a Spanish Town square. </div></div> What is th enational heritage significance?
That the white soldier use ti be segregated pat lathcbury Barracks and have special gate call Cotton Tree gate while the black sondiers was at Curphy and had to use DUPPY gate to get in there?
That the only blacks that use to work up at th ewhite sections were gardners and maid and black soldiers on CP?
Or us it to reminded us that the black soldiers were not trained nor issued with any weapons iother than the old mark 303 enfeild rifles of world waar 2?
That was how it went down during 'overt' colonial days, before august 6 1962.
Now during the Covert colonial days masqurading as inddeeopendence, they do i

[X]

Re: A proposal to sell Up Park Camp

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Humano</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: barosa</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Without reading all the comments, I say it's a bad idea. It's not only a bad idea but is a &quot;stupid&quot; idea. It was established there for reasons and if these &quot;politricktians&quot; are blind to them, they should be voted out of office... The greed of developers and their quest to make money at all cost in crime infested Kingston is beyond the pale... I can just imagine how they are salivating to build multi million types condos and assessories for the &quot;idle rich&quot; walled off from the rest of Kingston and St Andrew. We should tell them where to shove their development ideas...

The govt, instead of trying to deal with the growing crime problems to make Jamaica more hospitable for commerce, business and industry to thrive, they are trying to appease the interest of those who want to further divide Jamaicans and make money doing it... What happen if there is a need to quell an insurrection in the capital? Are we gonna wait until forces from Vernamfield are dispatched? Some may say this is unlikely, <span style="font-weight: bold">but what would happen if Jamaica is invaded via Kingston? would our forces be a stone's throw from defending the City and the govt. while we await them from Vernamfield? The seats of Govt such as Gordon House, KINGS HOUSE and Jamaica House would fall before they get there...</span></div></div>

If Jamaica is invaded by whom? There is only one country that is likely to invade Jamaica, militarily, and that invasion would be preceded by an intense bombing campaign from the air, even from miles away, followed by an overwhelming ground force operation. The JDF could do very little against them, since Up Park Camp would first be taken out, followed by NewCastle (in the hills of St Andrew), and installations in Moneague, and in Mandeville. Why are we inventing phantom military attacks? As we should know by now, Jamaica doesn't need to be militarily attacked in order to be subdued?

Also, there doesn't need to be a military post in Kingston to quell an insurrection since the military is usually called unto the streets as a last resort. There is already the Special Anti-crime Task Force, Riot Police, or whatever their name is nowadays.

I actually think it's sensible to relocate the military headquarters outside of Kingston. Caymanas (ten minutes away from Kingston) may be a good location, supplemented by Vernamfield, Clarendon, for the Air Wing. With proper communications equipment, clear command structure, and given Jamaica's relatively small geographic area, the headquarters could very much be located anywhere.

My suggestion is to make that area of Kingston as a model of eco-friendly housing, into a mixed income housing complex, relocate the citizens of nearby Allman Town, buldoze all those houses nearby Heroes Circle (behind the Ministries of Finance, Social Security, Welfare, etc) and turn all that area into green space - which Kingston needs more of.

And while they are at, they should relocate the General Penitentry; it's sitting on prime real estate. </div></div>

true dat.
not sure if the current up park camp location provides any particular strategic advantage considering today's state of affairs. Its not like it being in close proximity to downtown and in the heart of it all has prevented Jamaica's high murder and crime rate and remarkable social decline. Whoever developes the land will (hopefully) be creating muchh needed housing in a excellent geographic location.
Further to that, when iya observer a bonehead like KD knight coming out against an idea, this sends a signal that this may be an excellent idea afterall...