Teens, youngsters to be granted user's perm

[Tuff Gong]

Re: Teens, youngsters to be granted user's perm

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: f0rTyLeGz</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think that the real story of handgun ownership is probably a pretty grim statistic. (Mandela Guard Kills HimSelf) I think they are probably the 3rd or 4th cause of the owner's death (not 1 in 3 or 4, but perhaps 1 in 15 owners kills them self). Probably 1 in 10 or 15 of ALL gun owners killed a family member, and 1 in a hundred killed a neighbor. And then there are the accidental shootings...</div></div>

The real story is that the gun owners who commit suicide meant to kill themselves and possibly would choose another method if a gun was not available.
Guns don't kill, people use guns to kill.

In Jamaica <span style="font-style: italic">(except for politicians)</span>, the State cannot protect not one single Jamaican. In Jamaica a gun in the hands of legal owners would make it more risky, more expensive for a man or woman intent in taking the life of a Jamaican Citizen to be able accomplish his or her mission.

[Tuff Gong]

Re: Teens, youngsters to be granted user's perm

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr.Dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tuff Gong</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: f0rTyLeGz</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Doc, I really wish you would just &quot;preview&quot; your responses before posting. I know you are in a hurry, but I think it would be respectful of you to us readers, and helpful to you in making your point clear.</div></div>
He says he don't care! </div></div> Oh you got the check?? </div></div>

I ask you one Sunday a few months ago and you said you did not care. It was here in public on the BB. You said you did not care about spell check and grammar. It was also not the first time I asked either and got a similar response.

<span style="font-family: 'Arial Black'">Are you calling me a liar?</span>

[Dr.Dudd]

Re: Teens, youngsters to be granted user's perm

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tuff Gong</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I ask you one Sunday a few months ago and you said you did not care. It was here in public on the BB. You said you did not care about spell check and grammar. It was also not the first time I asked either and got a similar response.

<span style="font-family: 'Arial Black'">Are you calling me a liar?</span>
</div></div> I must tell you the truth. many of thetimes i don't get beyond the swearing and name calling stuff you post. So i may be replying to some swear you made in the post as you soo often do.

[Tuff Gong]

Re: Teens, youngsters to be granted user's perm

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr.Dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I must tell you the truth. many of thetimes i don't get beyond the swearing and name calling stuff you post. So i may be replying to some swear you made in the post as you soo often do. </div></div>

No it was a pretty long convo, sometimes you will see Britisha for instance direct a pun towards me about <span style="font-family: 'Arial Black'">spellcheck</span>...well it came from that thread.

[Dr.Dudd]

Re: Teens, youngsters to be granted user's perm

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tuff Gong</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr.Dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I must tell you the truth. many of thetimes i don't get beyond the swearing and name calling stuff you post. So i may be replying to some swear you made in the post as you soo often do. </div></div>

No it was a pretty long convo, sometimes you will see Britisha for instance direct a pun towards me about <span style="font-family: 'Arial Black'">spellcheck</span>...well it came from that thread. </div></div>I stop reading what she/he post for quite sometime. as soon as I discovered some truth.

[Tuff Gong]

Re: Teens, youngsters to be granted user's perm

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr.Dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I stop reading what she/he post for quite sometime. as soon as I discovered some truth. </div></div>
Actually is not an invitation or a suggestion for you to read her posts or any other members’ posts is just an argument to confirm that you publicly stated that you don't care about correcting for grammatical errors or spelling even when it might convey the wrong message.

[f0rTyLeGz]

Re: Teens, youngsters to be granted user's perm

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Tuff Gong:
The real story is that the gun owners who commit suicide meant to kill themselves and possibly would choose another method if a gun was not available.</div></div>
Perhaps I am wrong, but my impression is that most privately held handguns are fired when the owner is in a panic about events in their private lives, and not to protect themselves.

[Dr.Dudd]

Re: Teens, youngsters to be granted user's perm

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: f0rTyLeGz</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Tuff Gong:
The real story is that the gun owners who commit suicide meant to kill themselves and possibly would choose another method if a gun was not available.</div></div>
Perhaps I am wrong, but my impression is that most privately held handguns are fired when the owner is in a panic about events in their private lives, and not to protect themselves. </div></div> Yes you are wrong. How many of the Jamaican ones you see use under those circumstances?

[f0rTyLeGz]

Re: Teens, youngsters to be granted user's perm

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr.Dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: f0rTyLeGz</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Tuff Gong:
The real story is that the gun owners who commit suicide meant to kill themselves and possibly would choose another method if a gun was not available.</div></div>
Perhaps I am wrong, but my impression is that most privately held handguns are fired when the owner is in a panic about events in their private lives, and not to protect themselves. </div></div> Yes you are wrong. How many of the Jamaican ones you see use under those circumstances? </div></div>

I only know one man killed for his gun. Many killed for money. I don't know anyone saved by a gun. Know one youngster killed accidentally by a cop.

[Dr.Dudd]

Re: Teens, youngsters to be granted user's perm

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: f0rTyLeGz</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr.Dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: f0rTyLeGz</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Tuff Gong:
The real story is that the gun owners who commit suicide meant to kill themselves and possibly would choose another method if a gun was not available.</div></div>
Perhaps I am wrong, but my impression is that most privately held handguns are fired when the owner is in a panic about events in their private lives, and not to protect themselves. </div></div> Yes you are wrong. How many of the Jamaican ones you see use under those circumstances? </div></div>

I only know one man killed for his gun. Many killed for money. I don't know anyone saved by a gun. Know one youngster killed accidentally by a cop. </div></div> saying that you don't know anyone save d by a gun is like saying i don';t know anyone who's life was saved by eating food. the reason is that they are saved by the most powerful effect of the gun. it is called <span style="font-size: 17pt"> deterrant.</span>
you don't see it. just like burglar bars in Jamaica. many people die in fire because of them, but they save much more lives. they and the legal gun is like insurance. you don't know how many people it save, you only know the ones that it didn't.
If tomorrow Jamaica should ban the use of all guns it would give a better idea how many people it save.
you probably would have blamed it on politics or some other reason anyway.
we have a tendency not to completely analyse causes. we mostly stop at the most obvious symptoms and call it the cause.

[Tuff Gong]

Re: Teens, youngsters to be granted user's perm

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: f0rTyLeGz</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Perhaps I am wrong, but my impression is that most privately held handguns are fired when the owner is in a panic about events in their private lives, and not to protect themselves. </div></div>

Well if I say yes then I would be agreeing to an argument without the basis of all the information, because I am guessing you are restricting this argument only to the USA for instance.
But lets say you are right! It is something to consider but it does not shift the burden from the human being to the inanimate object. The firearm is no more enabling than a motorcar who owner get in it every single time to drink and drive.

The argument for less restrictive access to gun ownership does not turn on whether or not a crazed individual will take a gun and blast his loved ones away. In Jamaica crazed individuals already have access to a variety of means to inflict damage to any and everyone that they choose. No the argument is whether or not the State can protect the law-abiding citizens of Jamaica from persons who which to trespass on their life and property.

I say no and I say to flatten the equation the choice must be given to a citizen to easily arm or not to arm barring obvious restrictions on age, mental capability and proficiency in the use, care and protection of the weapon.

[Tuff Gong]

Re: Teens, youngsters to be granted user's perm

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: f0rTyLeGz</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I don't know anyone saved by a gun. </div></div>
I prevented a robbery with a gun and prevented a robbery and saved two lives with a gun on another occasion.

I have also avoided by robbed by armed robbers after I deflected their weapons on different occasions. I would imagine that the fear of having the guns turned on them dissuaded them from completing their tasks

[f0rTyLeGz]

Re: Teens, youngsters to be granted user's perm

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tuff Gong</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: f0rTyLeGz</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Perhaps I am wrong, but my impression is that most privately held handguns are fired when the owner is in a panic about events in their private lives, and not to protect themselves. </div></div>
Well if I say yes then I would be agreeing to an argument without the basis of all the information, because I am guessing you are restricting this argument only to the USA for instance.
But lets say you are right! It is something to consider but it does not shift the burden from the human being to the inanimate object. The firearm is no more enabling than a motorcar who owner get in it every single time to drink and drive.

The argument for less restrictive access to gun ownership does not turn on whether or not a crazed individual will take a gun and blast his loved ones away. In Jamaica crazed individuals already have access to a variety of means to inflict damage to any and everyone that they choose. No the argument is whether or not the State can protect the law-abiding citizens of Jamaica from persons who which to trespass on their life and property.

I say no and I say to flatten the equation the choice must be given to a citizen to easily arm or not to arm barring obvious restrictions on age, mental capability and proficiency in the use, care and protection of the weapon.
</div></div>
A powerful argument Tuff Gong. There are people I knew, who I wish had had the option of a personal handgun. It is a philosophical argument that I can't get my mind around... to tell you the truth. If everyone had the <span style="font-style: italic">power</span> to kill you instantly, how would society stay?

(later) I think the concept of Jamaica allowing everyone to own a handgun would make a wonderful novel or movie. And... I don't think anything like it has been done... the concept is like the other side of the coin in The Lottery by Shirley Jackson. What would happen if everyone was armed... or you didn't know who was armed, but <span style="font-style: italic">anyone</span> could have a handgun legally. There must be some stories... I'm just not remembering... Perhaps that <span style="font-style: italic">IS </span> the problem. Anyone who wants a handgun can get one?

[f0rTyLeGz]

Re: Teens, youngsters to be granted user's perm

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tuff Gong</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: f0rTyLeGz</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I don't know anyone saved by a gun. </div></div>
I prevented a robbery with a gun and prevented a robbery and saved two lives with a gun on another occasion.

I have also avoided by robbed by armed robbers after I deflected their weapons on different occasions. I would imagine that the fear of having the guns turned on them dissuaded them from completing their tasks
</div></div>
awesome... respect! (())

I was lucky somehow... &quot;charmed.&quot;

Once I was chased down by a car on a long dark road late at night... I was on a bicycle, sprinting sprinting. They slid crazy in front of me, screeching their white Toyota in front of me. Three guys jump out... one with a revolver. I looked away. They took my watch and a couple hundred J$. Im glad I wasn't packing a handgun.

(How cool would it be to see where that Swiss Army watch is now?)

Next day I went and bought the identical watch from Prem down at Times Square. I got a good deal... trust me. It is on my wrist right now.

[Tuff Gong]

Re: Teens, youngsters to be granted user's perm

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: f0rTyLeGz</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I was lucky somehow... &quot;charmed.&quot;

Once I was chased down by a car on a long dark road late at night... I was on a bicycle, sprinting sprinting. They slid crazy in front of me, screeching their white Toyota in front of me. Three guys jump out... one with a revolver. I looked away. They took my watch and a couple hundred J$. Im glad I wasn't packing a handgun.

(How cool would it be to see where that Swiss Army watch is now?)

Next day I went and bought the identical watch from Prem down at Times Square. I got a good deal... trust me. It is on my wrist right now. </div></div>

You were very lucky <span style="font-family: 'Arial Black'">more times than not</span> such a robbery results in a shooting of the victim.