Teens, youngsters to be granted user's perm

[Tuff Gong]

Re: Teens, youngsters to be granted user's perm

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: f0rTyLeGz</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If everyone had the <span style="font-style: italic">power</span> to kill you instantly, how would society stay?</div></div>

Almost every adult possess this power already!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: f0rTyLeGz</div><div class="ubbcode-body">(later) I think the concept of Jamaica allowing everyone to own a handgun would make a wonderful novel or movie. And... I don't think anything like it has been done... Perhaps that <span style="font-style: italic">IS </span> the problem. Anyone who wants a handgun can get one?
</div></div>

Actually that is not I am advocating nor I am sure the other folks who vote for less restrictive gun ownership regulations. In any case it is virtually impossible as you admit for the State to keep firearms out of the hands of folks who desire them, we are only asking that it done legally.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: f0rTyLeGz</div><div class="ubbcode-body">(...the concept is like the other side of the coin in The Lottery by Shirley Jackson. What would happen if everyone was armed... or you didn't know who was armed, but <span style="font-style: italic">anyone</span> could have a handgun legally. There must be some stories... I'm just not remembering... </div></div>
Well in such a situation the man or woman who wants to take another life would be faced with an awfully expensive decision to make. That is what we need now, not necessarily for every man or woman who wants a gun to get a gun, but for the criminal to spend a moment contemplating the costs and validity of his or her action(s).

We already know the cost of huge restriction placed on legal ownership of weapons. Jamaica has one of the most restrictive weapons laws of any country. There is virtually a ban on legal ownership of any weapon, including a pocketknife. All we have to show for that is the highest murder rate per capita in the world. We have the best lab in the world and the numbers are in every single day. <span style="font-family: 'Arial Black'">I know I track the killings daily.</span>

[rudemonk]

Re: Teens, youngsters to be granted user's perm

But Tuff, I know we have disagreed on this point before- but if people have easy access to weapons, legal/illegal is sort of a moot point.

already we know that gun men will target and take out people who are armed.

plenty of business people get touched by crime and the safe assumption is they are all armed already.

you have observed, and correctly, that it is the state itself which has failed.

I guess my point is simply that if all can recognize the failure of the state to adequately and reasonably protect her citizens...then is it not a diversion to argue for easier 'legal' access to guns, from what are the real problems, and what should be the real solutions, which all stem from a failure of the State?

Unless people are saying that the State is a complete failure, but I don't know if that can really be said, the way it can be said of someplace like Somalia.

If all the effort put into fighting the fight to have easier and legal weapons were expended on mentoring programs for at risk youth, creating opportunity, and such...I would be willing to bet we would see a far greater impact made on solving the problems of violence in society than weaponizing citizens.

This is not to suggest there is a simplistic solution or this post presents all the answers, but a campaign of targeted solutions can make a difference.

Plenty of tools can kill, guns are designed for that one purpose, but really there is a reason why people pull the trigger- and I think it is better time spent understanding why and how people can do that to one another.

[Tuff Gong]

Re: Teens, youngsters to be granted user's perm

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: monk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">you have observed, and correctly, that it is the state itself which has failed.

Unless people are saying that the State is a complete failure, but I don't know if that can really be said, the way it can be said of someplace like Somalia.</div></div>
Basically yes, except it worse than Somalia we actually have an elected Government. As Barack said in Ghana recently:

<span style="text-decoration: underline">Obama In Ghana</span>:
<span style="font-family: 'Arial Black'">'Africa Not Separate From World Affairs'</span>
&quot;No country is going to create wealth if its leaders exploit the economy to enrich themselves, or if police can be bought off by drug traffickers,&quot; he said

&quot;No business wants to invest in a place where the government skims 20 percent off the top, or the head of the Port Authority is corrupt. No person wants to live in a society where the rule of law gives way to the rule of brutality and bribery.

&quot;That is not democracy, that is tyranny, even if occasionally you sprinkle an election in there,&quot; he said, &quot;and now is the time for that style of governance to end.&quot;

[Tuff Gong]

Re: Teens, youngsters to be granted user's perm

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: monk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">But Tuff, I know we have disagreed on this point before- but if people have easy access to weapons, legal/illegal is sort of a moot point.

already we know that gun men will target and take out people who are armed.

plenty of business people get touched by crime and the safe assumption is they are all armed already.</div></div>

Well the argument for easier access that you are attempting to refute is not really complete. Here is a better overstanding.
<ul style="list-style-type: disc">[*]In the first place the official sentence for being found in possession of an illegal firearm is years at hard labour. The unofficial sentence is death at the hands of the police, therefore the law-abiding citizen is compelled more or less to follow the law and not avail himself or herself of the otherwise readily available illegal guns[*]At this time the ratio of potential shottas to a legal gun owners is overwhelmingly in favour of the gunman.[*]The cost of crime to the gunman right now is less than 2/3 of all homicides cleared up.
The ban on dangerous weapons in Jamaica is total, except for the very few legal gun owners.[/list]
Given the above the advantage is almost totally in favour of the gunmen.
In a situation where more folks are trained, mentally capable legal gun owners the balance of the scales tip in the other direction. Advantage=Citizens-against-gun-toting gunmen.

[uswe]

Re: Teens, youngsters to be granted user's perm

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tuff Gong</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: monk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">you have observed, and correctly, that it is the state itself which has failed.

Unless people are saying that the State is a complete failure, but I don't know if that can really be said, the way it can be said of someplace like Somalia.</div></div>
Basically yes, except it worse than Somalia we actually have an elected Government. As Barack said in Ghana recently:

<span style="text-decoration: underline">Obama In Ghana</span>:
<span style="font-family: 'Arial Black'">'Africa Not Separate From World Affairs'</span>
<span style="font-weight: bold">&quot;No country is going to create wealth if its leaders exploit the economy to enrich themselves, or if police can be bought off by drug traffickers,&quot; he said</span>

<span style="font-weight: bold">&quot;No business wants to invest in a place where the government skims 20 percent off the top, or the head of the Port Authority is corrupt. No person wants to live in a society where the rule of law gives way to the rule of brutality and bribery.

&quot;That is not democracy, that is tyranny, even if occasionally you sprinkle an election in there,&quot; he said, &quot;and now is the time for that style of governance to end.&quot;</span>
</div></div>

This sounds familiar, like somewhere I know!

[Tuff Gong]

Re: Teens, youngsters to be granted user's perm

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: uswe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This sounds familiar, like somewhere I know! </div></div>

LOL is could not be Jamaica because after 18 years the 2008 General Election is not over yet.
This must be one of the longest running General Election in the recent memory...<span style="font-family: 'Arial Black'">although I have to correct myself immediately </span>as Deddaub vs. Phy-liad Mitchell lasted 2 years till Disable Deddaub won the seat in court.

[uswe]

Re: Teens, youngsters to be granted user's perm

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tuff Gong</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: uswe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This sounds familiar, like somewhere I know! </div></div>

LOL is could not be Jamaica because after 18 years the 2008 General Election is not over yet.
This must be one of the longest running General Election in the recent memory...<span style="font-family: 'Arial Black'">although I have to correct myself immediately </span>as Deddaub vs. Phy-liad Mitchell lasted 2 years till Disable Deddaub won the seat in court.
</div></div>


<span style="font-family: 'Arial Black'">DWL!</span>

[blugiant]

Re: Teens, youngsters to be granted user's perm

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr.Dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body">To that I say,&quot;He wo are too much of a cowardice, shall die like dogs, while squirming in a corner, begging for their lives&quot;.
It is not about he who pays thepiper. Since the gun men don't seem to be paying any piper.
they seem to be in the collecting business.
Probably the saying should be he who have the guns have the oower,and he who have the power <span style="font-weight: bold">are the rulers</span><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Panajar</div><div class="ubbcode-body">&quot;He who has the gold makes the rules&quot; . &quot;He who pays the piper calls the tune&quot;. </div></div> </div></div>


<span style="font-weight: bold">&quot;If We Must Die&quot;

If we must die, let it not be like hogs

Hunted and penned in an inglorious spot,

While round us bark the mad and hungry dogs,

Making their mock at our accursed lot.

If we must die, O let us nobly die

So that our precious blood may not be shed

In vain; then even the monsters we defy

Shall be constrained to honor us though dead!

O kinsmen! We must meet the common foe!

Though far outnumbered let us show us brave,

And for their thousand blows deal one death blow!

What though before us lies the open grave?

Like men we’ll face the murderous, cowardly pack,

Pressed to the wall, dying, but fighting back!

Source: Claude McKay, “If We Must Die,” in Harlem Shadows: The Poems of Claude McKay</span>



thyme fii ja fii arm de poor ghetto peeps wey a live unda suffaration aff gunmen ann machett weildinn criminals

[Panajar]

Re: Teens, youngsters to be granted user's perm

One man in now hospital in stable condition after he was injured in a cross-fire during a foiled robbery attempt in St Andrew today.

The incident took place shortly after 2 p.m. at a bar at the intersection of Molynes Road and Woodglen Avenue.

The injured man who is an employee of a local media entity was hit as <span style="font-size: 17pt">a licensed firearm holder</span> who was at the bar at the time and the two would-be robbers traded bullets.

<span style="font-size: 17pt">According to the police one of the robbers was also shot.

He was reportedly pronounced dead at hospital.</span>

gud jab wi need more responsible people wit irons LINK

[Dr.Dudd]

Re: Teens, youngsters to be granted user's perm

Gunmen chase and kill man
Monday, 03 August 2009
An unidentified man believed to be in his late twenties was shot dead by gunmen on Ripon Road in St. Andrew Monday morning.

The dead man is of dark complexion, medium build and about 170 centimetres long and was clad in short blue jeans.

The Constabulary Communication (CCN) says about 2:15am, the man was seen being chased by gunmen.

Shortly after, explosions were heard and the man's body was found on the road with several wounds.

Meanwhile two men were shot, one fatally by gunmen at Shooters Hill, Bull Bay, St. Andrew Sunday night.

According to the CCN, about 11:30pm, Damion Wilson, 25, and a 48-year-old man both of Shooters Hill, were standing at their gate when they were approached by two men brandishing guns who immediately opened fire.

Mr. Wilson died on the spot while the other man was injured.

The police were called the 48-year-old man taken to hospital where he was admitted in stable condition.

Man attacked at garage, chased &amp; killed

In the meantime, Christopher Manderson, 19, of Blaze Close in Norbrook, St. Andrew was shot dead by gunmen at Lindsay Crescent in the parish on Sunday.

The CCN reports that just before midday, Mr. Manderson and a man went to a garage at Retreat Drive when two men armed with guns approached and opened fire.

Mr. Manderson ran onto Lindsay Crescent where he was cornered and shot.

He died instantly.

The other man escaped.

Clarendon man found dead on his verandah

The murders did not only take place in the Corporate Area as the May Pen Police in Clarendon are reporting the shooting death of a man at his house in York Town, Four Paths on Sunday.

According to the CCN, about 5pm, residents of York Town heard explosions and called the police.

Dalton Dawkins, 49, also known as &quot;Bigga&quot; was found with gunshot wounds on his verandah.

And 21-year-old Toussaint Desouza of Vaughn's Field was shot dead by a gunman in Vaughn's Field, Maroon Town in St. James on Sunday.

Mr. Desouza was sitting in his motor car about 5:30pm, when he was approached by a gunman who shot him.

He ran from the car but was chased and shot several more times.

The police who were called took him to the Cornwall Regional Hospital where he was pronounced dead.