NWA pilots FALL ASLEEP on way to Mpls and fly over my yard

**Yuriatin** · 10-26-2009, 10:45 AM

Re: NWA pilots FALL ASLEEP on way to Mpls and fly over my ya

Milo - I thought was weird for thinking this but the SAME thing crossed my mind as well.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Curmudgeon_Milo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I wonder if dem probed dem batty dem?
</div></div>

**Yuriatin** · 10-26-2009, 10:46 AM

Re: NWA pilots FALL ASLEEP on way to Mpls and fly over my ya

If it's not sleeping, drugging ... sexing was the next thought I had.

They need to get real. How many OTHER things can you do in a cock pit?

**Dr.Dudd** · 10-26-2009, 10:51 AM

Re: NWA pilots FALL ASLEEP on way to Mpls and fly over my yard

There is the black box voice recorder, that is capable of surviving a crash, and then there's the regular voice recorder. The black box is limited in capacity due to the technology used to achieve survivability.

there are other means or recording on the aircraft some even record in places you woulnd't believe. T

hey have enough capacity to cover ant flight.

those are the ones that can be tampered with.
I am almost sure that they may be able to find info on the black box, .
there is also the other recorder that will record the condition the craft was in which will show if it was on autopilot during the time, and they can go from there. <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RicharD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">i thought the issue was that the voice recorder only records the last 30 minutes of flight time so it would not have been of any use in this case. </div></div>

**RichD** · 10-26-2009, 10:54 AM

Re: NWA pilots FALL ASLEEP on way to Mpls and fly over my yard

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr.Dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There is the black box voice recorder, that is capable of surviving a crash, and then there's the regular voice recorder. The black box is limited in capacity due to the technology used to achieve survivability.

there are other means or recording on the aircraft some even record in places you woulnd't believe. T

hey have enough capacity to cover ant flight.

those are the ones that can be tampered with.
I am almost sure that they may be able to find info on the black box, .
there is also the other recorder that will record the condition the craft was in which will show if it was on autopilot during the time, and they can go from there. <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RicharD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">i thought the issue was that the voice recorder only records the last 30 minutes of flight time so it would not have been of any use in this case. </div></div> </div></div>

so doc from your experience...would one possibility be mis-configuration of the FMC when plotting the route?

**RichD** · 10-26-2009, 11:28 AM

Re: NWA pilots FALL ASLEEP on way to Mpls and fly over my yard

annoda question i have is ...dem sey dem have security on high alert...so dem lose communication wid di flight for 75 minutes and dem only reach the point where th fighter were getting ready to tek off?

**Dr.Dudd** · 10-26-2009, 11:29 AM

Re: NWA pilots FALL ASLEEP on way to Mpls and fly over my yard

My experience is really a generation ago, but what I know they use to do was, that schedules are made by the company,usually permanent. the flight plan is issued to the flight crew, that inputs it in the FMC. the computer also transmit the crafts location by way of the transponder. that broadcast of the position as it enters each airspace, result in a call from the airspace controllers to confirm ID.. soon after the craft enters an airspace, which it does. The controllers are supposed to confirm it and it follow the flight plan.
So it is almost impossible to flight invisible for so long.
since on [passenger airlines the pilot is unable to turn off the transponder. So I am sure that the transponder was transmitting and they simply failed to answer the controllers. Homeland security still seem to be asleep at the wheel, if a plane to be nonresponsive for so long without any military intervention.<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RichD</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr.Dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There is the black box voice recorder, that is capable of surviving a crash, and then there's the regular voice recorder. The black box is limited in capacity due to the technology used to achieve survivability.

there are other means or recording on the aircraft some even record in places you woulnd't believe. T

hey have enough capacity to cover ant flight.

those are the ones that can be tampered with.
I am almost sure that they may be able to find info on the black box, .
there is also the other recorder that will record the condition the craft was in which will show if it was on autopilot during the time, and they can go from there. <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RicharD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">i thought the issue was that the voice recorder only records the last 30 minutes of flight time so it would not have been of any use in this case. </div></div> </div></div>

so doc from your experience...would one possibility be misconfiguration of the FMC when plotting the route? </div></div>

**Gen** · 10-26-2009, 11:43 AM

Re: NWA pilots FALL ASLEEP on way to Mpls and fly over my ya

yup same ting

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Yuri_</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Milo - I thought was weird for thinking this but the SAME thing crossed my mind as well.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Curmudgeon_Milo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I wonder if dem probed dem batty dem?
</div></div> </div></div>

**Gen** · 10-26-2009, 11:50 AM

Re: NWA pilots FALL ASLEEP on way to Mpls and fly over my yard

am guessing they didnt want to overreact and shoot it dung fi no reason ? also the controllers kept trying to reach them but other than that it nuh sound like the controllers were too aggressive in declaring an emergency. is a thin line indeed. thats why mi haffi bun fyah pan the 2 pilot dem.

but can yuh imagine ? yuh siddung a drink the tonic water yuh pay 10.00 fah and all of a sudden yuh see fighter jet out the window. saviah devine.

1.by the way didnt the flight attendats notice that they were 1 hour off schedule ? with no explanation from the pilots ?? dem need likkle discipline too

all of them need to be checking and balancing each other ?

2.were marshalls on board ? and wonder if them was sleeping too ?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RichD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">annoda question i have is ...dem sey dem have security on high alert...so dem lose communication wid di flight for 75 minutes and dem only reach the point where th fighter were getting ready to tek off? </div></div>

**RichD** · 10-26-2009, 04:54 PM

Re: NWA pilots FALL ASLEEP on way to Mpls and fly over my yard

so the pilot dem sey they were busy wid dem lap tops goin thru flight crew schedules (the captain was demonstrating sumtin to the fo)

**Yuriatin** · 10-26-2009, 05:22 PM

Re: NWA pilots FALL ASLEEP on way to Mpls and fly over my ya

What ah ting.

What gets me tho – is that this will probably <span style="font-size: 8pt">(hope I’m wrong)</span> die down, peeter out and nothing will happen to them.

If it was me – I’d fire them. Heck if it WAS me, I’m SURE they’d have fired me quick quick.

Can you imagine if those scrambled jets shot that plane down?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RichD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">so the pilot dem sey they were busy wid dem lap tops goin thru flight crew schedules (the captain was demonstrating sumtin to the fo) </div></div>

**evanovitch** · 10-26-2009, 05:53 PM

Re: NWA pilots FALL ASLEEP on way to Mpls and fly over my yard

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RichD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">so the pilot dem sey they were busy wid dem lap tops goin thru flight crew schedules (the captain was demonstrating sumtin to the fo) </div></div>

plus dem admit dem did not lissen to any transmission etc...dem did not chek on di plane

so dem juss neva a pay attn to dem primary function, dat flight...

**evanovitch** · 10-26-2009, 05:56 PM

Wrong-Way Pilots Were On Their Laptops: NTSB

Wrong-Way Pilots Were On Their Laptops: NTSB
3:39 pm

October 26, 2009

By Frank James

The two Northwest Airlines pilots who apparently paid so little attention to their cockpit duties that they flew 150 miles past the Minneapolis/St. Paul airport last week, have told investigators they were looking at their personal laptops and discussing pilot scheduling issues according to an update issued Monday by the National Transportation Safety Board.

<span style="font-weight: bold">Using personal laptops in the cockpit during a flight would violate Northwest's policy, the NTSB added.</span>

Here's the NTSB statement:

NTSB ADVISORY
************************************************** **********
National Transportation Safety Board
Washington, DC 20594
October 26, 2009
************************************************** **********
NTSB ISSUES UPDATE ON ITS INVESTIGATION OF FLIGHT 188 THAT
OVERFLEW INTENDED MINNEAPOLIS AIRPORT
************************************************** **********
In its continuing investigation of an Airbus A320 that overflew the Minneapolis-St Paul International/Wold- Chamberlain Airport (MSP), the National Transportation Safety Board has developed the following factual information: On Wednesday, October 21, 2009, at 5:56 pm mountain daylight time, an Airbus A320, operating as Northwest Airlines (NWA) flight 188, became a NORDO (no radio communications) flight at 37,000 feet. The flight was operating as a Part 121 flight from San Diego International Airport, San Diego, California (SAN) to MSP with 144 passengers, 2 pilots and 3 flight attendants.
Both pilots were interviewed separately by NTSB investigators yesterday in Minnesota. The following is an overview of the interviews:
* The first officer and the captain were interviewed for over 5 hours combined.
* The Captain, 53 years old, was hired in 1985. His total flight time is about 20,000 hours, about 10,000 hours of A-320 time of which about 7,000 was as pilot in command.
* The First Officer, 54 years old, was hired in 1997. His total flight time is about 11,000 hours, and has about 5,000 hours on the A-320.
* Both pilots said they had never had an accident, incident or violation.
* Neither pilot reported any ongoing medical conditions.
* Both pilots stated that they were not fatigued. They were both commuters, but they had a 19-hour layover in San Diego just prior to the incident flight. Both said they did not fall asleep or doze during the flight.
* Both said there was no heated argument.
* Both stated there was a distraction in the cockpit.
The pilots said there was a concentrated period of discussion where they did not monitor the airplane or calls from ATC even though both stated they heard conversation on the radio. Also, neither pilot noticed messages that were sent by company dispatchers. They were discussing the new monthly crew flight scheduling system that was now in place as a result of the merger. The discussion began at cruise altitude.
* Both said they lost track of time.
* Each pilot accessed and used his personal laptop computer while they discussed the airline crew flight scheduling procedure. The first officer, who was more familiar with the procedure was providing instruction to the captain. The use of personal computers on the flight deck is prohibited by company policy.
* Neither pilot was aware of the airplane's position until a flight attendant called about 5 minutes before they were scheduled to land and asked what was their estimated time of arrival (ETA). The captain said, at that point, he looked at his primary flight display for an ETA and realized that they had passed MSP. They made contact with ATC and were given vectors back to MSP.
* At cruise altitude - the pilots stated they were using cockpit speakers to listen to radio communications, not their headsets.
* When asked by ATC what the problem was, they replied "just cockpit distraction" and "dealing with company issues".
* Both pilots said there are no procedures for the flight attendants to check on the pilots during flight.
The Safety Board is interviewing the flight attendants and other company personnel today. Air traffic control communications have been obtained and are being analyzed. Preliminary data from the cockpit voice recorder (CVR) revealed the following:
* The CVR recording was 1/2 hour in length.
* The cockpit area microphone channel was not working during this recording. However, the crew's headset microphones recorded their conversations.
* The CVR recording began during final approach, and continued while the aircraft was at the gate.
* During the hours immediately following the incident flight, routine aircraft maintenance provided power to the CVR for a few minutes on several occasions, likely recording over several minutes of the flight.
The FDR captured the entire flight which contained several hundred aircraft parameters including the portion of flight where there was no radio communication from the flight crew. Investigators are examining the recorded parameters to see if any information regarding crew activity during the portion of flight where radio contact was lost can be obtained.
<span style="font-style: italic">The Safety Board's investigation continues.</span>

**evanovitch** · 10-26-2009, 06:01 PM

why did Homeland Security take so long to react?

CNN is learning that fighter jets were ready to scramble if needed, <span style="font-weight: bold">but not until air traffic controllers had been out of contact with the plane for quite some time</span>.

Our Barbara Starr is live at the Pentagon for us this morning. And Barbara, what are you learning about all of the timing in all of this when they lost radio contact with the plane and when the jets might have been scrambled?

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: <span style="font-weight: bold">John, in the post- 9/11 world it seems inconceivable, but CNN has learned from U.S. officials involved in the incident, Flight 188 was radio silenced for one hour before NORAD was called and told there might be a problem with a passenger plane in the skies. Officials directly involved in the timeline of the incident confirming that to CNN. </span>
Let's put up the timeline for everybody. All of these times converted into east coast time so it matches up and is easier to look at.

First of all, it was 7:56 p.m. the flight goes radio silent. No radio communications. About one hour later, 8:58 overshoots Minneapolis. 9:14 communications reestablishes.

But leave that up for a minute, John. What we now know is it was only after the plane overshot Minneapolis that NORAD was notified and scrambled jets had jets on the runway and pilots in the cockpit, was ready to go in 15 minutes, but they hadn't been called for over an hour.

So by the time they were ready to go in the 15-minute period the incident the FAA said was over.

But still confusing because we know the FAA asked those Northwest pilots to do some special maneuvers to demonstrate they were in control of the plane, that this was not a hijacking.

So senior officials tell us this is all very troubling to them. One hour before the military was even notified there was a passenger jet in the skies with a potential problem -- John?

ROBERTS: So how unusual is this Barbara? They are in the Washington area. I remember time after time White House was evacuated and jets in the air even when a little aircraft strayed into air space over Washington. But that's heavily restricted.

If you've got an aircraft that's kind of flying with no radio communications out over the Rocky Mountains or in the Great Plains, is it that much of a concern until you find out it overshot its destination? STARR: Some people say it wasn't presenting any kind of threaten scenario, it wasn't flying in a threatening profile. What's the problem?

We've spoken to very senior officials involved in the military aspects of this and their issue is, they say, if you're going to wait an hour to call us and it's a problem and we don't know it, an hour is awfully late in the process to get going.

They would much rather be notified very quickly, launch jets. As you point out, John, so many times since 9/11 we've seen fighter jets patrol the skies and escort problematic planes down to the ground. No real answer why it didn't happen this time.

ROBERTS: At the very least, go up and have a look, I would say. Barbara Starr for us at the Pentagon. Barbara, thanks

**Nanook** · 10-26-2009, 07:23 PM

Re: NWA pilots FALL ASLEEP on way to Mpls and fly over my yard

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: evanovitch</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RichD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">so the pilot dem sey they were busy wid dem lap tops goin thru flight crew schedules (the captain was demonstrating sumtin to the fo) </div></div>

plus dem admit dem did not lissen to any transmission etc...dem did not chek on di plane

so dem juss neva a pay attn to dem primary function, dat flight... </div></div>

FIRE THEM!!!!

There is NO EXCUSE!!!!!

Jesus H Christ....

**jaith2** · 10-26-2009, 07:28 PM

Re: NWA pilots FALL ASLEEP on way to Mpls and fly over my yard

they were on their laptop, lurking on ja.com

NWA pilots FALL ASLEEP on way to Mpls and fly over my yard

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

ads