The Murder of Robert Hill

[RichD]

Re: The Murder of Robert Hill

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr.Dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body">They train you well to believe this self destructive ideas.

the military is up against an armed citizenry eventually the armed citizenry usually win.

It only appear so to justify the disarming of the population.
If the citizenry of the US did not have the right to arms, many political leaders would have been replaced by the military over it's history.

They can even assassinate the leaders, but can never take political power. <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rich</div><div class="ubbcode-body">boy if the operatives of the state want you gone nuttin can save you (well maybe political connections )..but no amount of weapons or neighbours with weapons </div></div> </div></div>

but doc in the US operatives of the state murder citizens too

[Dr.Dudd]

Re: The Murder of Robert Hill

I did not say that i was interested in dealing with that.
I am interested in dealing with the annual turkey shoot slaughter of Jamaican citizens and how to solve it.

Is There a similar astronomic murder rate in the US too?

that is what I am interested to deal with.
I can't afford to be distracted by every murder carried out by human beings.
I am intrested the stopping the deluge, not the drips. <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RichD</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr.Dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body">They train you well to believe this self destructive ideas.

the military is up against an armed citizenry eventually the armed citizenry usually win.

It only appear so to justify the disarming of the population.
If the citizenry of the US did not have the right to arms, many political leaders would have been replaced by the military over it's history.

They can even assassinate the leaders, but can never take political power. <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rich</div><div class="ubbcode-body">boy if the operatives of the state want you gone nuttin can save you (well maybe political connections )..but no amount of weapons or neighbours with weapons </div></div> </div></div>

but doc in the US operatives of the state murder citizens too </div></div>

[RichD]

Re: The Murder of Robert Hill

it appears to me your solution could reduce a certain type of murder but does nothing to address other types. you try to apply your theory to every situation..i don't think it fits..and you have not made a convincing argument that it does.

[Dr.Dudd]

Re: The Murder of Robert Hill

In not one case have i ever said that the murder would not have happened. I just explained that the <span style="font-weight: bold">probability of it happening would have been lower</span>.
In other words with lower probability, we have lower incidences. thatis logic.
murders happen.
a few will happen under all circumstances, but not at the rate where they become an accepted anomaly.
Not to the point where human lives seem to have no value.
We can't solve all problems with one stroke.

We have to deal with the most acute first though.
then we have to deal with the lessor problems.
this is about emergency room work, not plastic surgery..
We have to save the country before we improve it.<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RichD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">it appears to me your solution could reduce a certain type of murder but does nothing to address other types. you try to apply your theory to every situation..i don't think it fits..and you have not made a convincing argument that it does. </div></div>

[RichD]

Re: The Murder of Robert Hill

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr.Dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Not to the point where human lives seem to have no value.</div></div>
but it seems to have come to that already ...so how do you reverse that?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr.Dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
We can't solve all problems with one stroke.

</div></div>

based on you offering this solution in a wide variety of cases one might think that was the case

[Dr.Dudd]

Re: The Murder of Robert Hill

How do i reverse what?

and because a solution work in many different cases, it is not appropriate a solution?
What you see as different situations, may be the same underlying problem that manifest indifferent ways.

i treat the underlying problem.
Just Like how threat to a person's life may result in many different reactions depend on the person and circumstances.

It does not help to attempt top treat the different reactions as it would if you deal with the threat.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RichD</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr.Dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Not to the point where human lives seem to have no value.</div></div>
but it seems to have come to that already ...so how do you reverse that?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr.Dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
We can't solve all problems with one stroke.

</div></div>

based on you offering this solution in a wide variety of cases one might think that was the case </div></div>

[RichD]

Re: The Murder of Robert Hill

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr.Dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How do i reverse what?

and because a solution work in many different cases, it is not appropriate a solution?
</div></div>

how do you(the genric you not the specific) reverse the reality that to many in Jamaica Human life has no value.


I am suggesting that your solution <span style="font-weight: bold">will not</span> work in many different cases rather will only work in specific cases

[Dr.Dudd]

Re: The Murder of Robert Hill

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RichD</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr.Dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How do i reverse what?

and because a solution work in many different cases, it is not appropriate a solution?
</div></div>

how do you(the genric you not the specific) reverse the reality that to many in Jamaica Human life has no value.


I am suggesting that your solution <span style="font-weight: bold">will not</span> work in many different cases rather will only work in specific cases </div></div> Do you think that if all the law abiding citizens were deputized as police officers, the murder rate would be the same, Higher or lower?

[R_C]

Re: The Murder of Robert Hill

Doc, this is not a situation that called for simply giving Mr. Hill a firearm. There are systems within the political structure of the State that could have prevented this. But the head is rotten, the system is corrupt and there is no accountability. It is a pervasive problem and the police are out of control.

The Prime Minister, the Attorney General, the Director of Public Prosecution, the then Commissioner and the now Acting Commissioner of Police ALL new about this case.

They all, these representatives of the State, stood by and watched and waited for this man to be executed. Just as he said he would be. It was not a secret that this was going to happen. His blood is on their hands.

[Dr.Dudd]

Re: The Murder of Robert Hill

I have never proposed that the arming of any one person would save his life. as a matter of fact for umteenth time, I have always said that it create more murder of black people than it save lives.
On the other hand white people even those without firearms are less likely to be shot.
simply because the criminals are deterred from attacking them, because they know that the probability of them and their neighbors having a firearm is too high to risk doing so.

that is called deterrent one armed person does not create deterrent.
deterrent is the solution Not defence.
you can't defend against a criminal when your firearm is in your holster, and his in his hand.
you don't know him until his is already in his hand. he has that over you every time.
The did nothing because they did not have tio do anything. If they had anarmed citizenry, they would have mor respect. Blackjs became slaves because they werer unarmed. The Jews were almost anhilated because they were unarmed. Only mental slaves chose to be unarmed. No other person have th right to protect your life. Nobody does for anybodymore than they are willing to do for themselves. <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rollin_Calf</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Doc, this is not a situation that called for simply giving Mr. Hill a firearm. There are systems within the political structure of the State that could have prevented this. But the head is rotten, the system is corrupt and there is no accountability. It is a pervasive problem and the police are out of control.

The Prime Minister, the Attorney General, the Director of Public Prosecution, the then Commissioner and the now Acting Commissioner of Police ALL new about this case.

They all, these representatives of the State, stood by and watched and waited for this man to be executed. Just as he said he would be. It was not a secret that this was going to happen. His blood is on their hands. </div></div>

[RichD]

Re: The Murder of Robert Hill

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr.Dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
On the other hand white people even those without firearms are less likely to be shot.
simply because the criminals are deterred from attacking them, because they know that the probability of them and their neighbors having a firearm is too high to risk doing so.

</div></div> i think you have drawn the wrong conclusion from the facts presented.

[Dr.Dudd]

Re: The Murder of Robert Hill

You mean I should just take your word that I did?<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RichD</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr.Dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
On the other hand white people even those without firearms are less likely to be shot.
simply because the criminals are deterred from attacking them, because they know that the probability of them and their neighbors having a firearm is too high to risk doing so.

</div></div> i think you have drawn the wrong conclusion from the facts presented. </div></div>

[RichD]

Re: The Murder of Robert Hill

based on the evidence you could just as easily conclude that a big house is a deterrent too .

[Panajar]

Re: The Murder of Robert Hill

I hope some good can come out of this case,if this does not cause some major investigations to occur ,and the killers brought to justice, then we must all admit that Jamaica is a <span style="font-weight: bold">fail state</span>.Since his widow is a Japanese citizen ,this should gain the attention of the international media.

[Dr.Dudd]

Re: The Murder of Robert Hill

That is like not being able to recognize the difference between causative forces and correlated events. That is what happened when some young researcher concluded that immigrants were more resistant to asthma than locally born ,even more than the children of the immigrants
it was also the case when the belief that living near swamps caused malaria, and when they claimed that cockroaches was the cause of high asthmatic rates. none of them were causative, but that is why not every person can do good research..<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RichD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">based on the evidence you could just as easily conclude that a big house is a deterrent too . </div></div>