Jamaicans abroad upset at sale of Air J

[evanovitch]

Re: Diaspora and Air J, urban farms, students, Haiti

<span style="font-weight: bold"> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> purported </div></div> </span>

but there u have it...if di meeting can be such, the figure can be such also

[Tuff Gong]

Re: Diaspora and Air J, urban farms, students, Haiti

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: evanovitch</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <span style="font-weight: bold"> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> purported </div></div> </span>

but there u have it...if di meeting can be such, the figure can be such also </div></div>

Neither the meeting nor the figure has been disproved. I am taking the poster at face value that he did have a meeting with the Prime Minster of Jamaica and what he posted was the out come of such a meeting. Moreover many of what he posted I indicated before was known, except for detailed figures.

But the real question is what is this throw around figure argument about?
Does Air Jamaica has debts or not.

[evanovitch]

Re: Diaspora and Air J, urban farms, students, Haiti

purported means it is assumed to be r it is reputed to be r it is assumed to be...if u can seh dat di meeting supposedly gwane well den di figure can be supposed to...dat is the salient argument...

u cannot have it both ways...u cant use dat language to bak ur claim wile pshawing RichD...

[Tuff Gong]

Re: Diaspora and Air J, urban farms, students, Haiti

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: evanovitch</div><div class="ubbcode-body">purported means it is assumed to be r it is reputed to be r it is assumed to be...if u can seh dat di meeting supposedly gwane well den di figure can be supposed to...dat is the salient argument...

u cannot have it both ways...u cant use dat language to bak ur claim wile pshawing RichD... </div></div>

Again you have missed the point.
I said there was purported a meeting. The guy said there was one I am taking him at his word. There was figure given by the Prime Minister in that meeting, I am accepting that figure. All of the foregoing based on the fact that they have already been arguments placed in the public domain that tend to corroborate what the post from the purported meeting detailed.
Don't get it twisted.

<span style="font-family: 'Arial Black'">Now if you are still instructing your client, please ask him to answer these few questions if he will</span>:

A. Where did he get his tossed around figures?
B. How does he know that his purported sources did say what they say?
C. What does it matter whether or not there a figure tossed around, placed on the table, rolled off an embankment, whatever, however? Since the Government clearly stated that the current potential purchaser is not going in any way shape or form to assume any historical debts?
D. Who exactly is using throw-arounds to muddy the waters with red herrings?

[evanovitch]

Re: Diaspora and Air J, urban farms, students, Haiti

TG juss dis likkle bit in ref to u piece bout my instructing client....tink bak to wat dem seh in di said legal reference way re a one who is him own lawyer? u doing a good job of reaffirming dat truism n ease up pon di petulance ...
n believe me i can recognise it cause i is an expert in its use gawd man...is not every discussion haffi be a fight...n i claim expertise in dat too

[RichD]

Re: Diaspora and Air J, urban farms, students, Haiti

TG..im basing my statemnt on what i see published

like this: from 2008
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The Government has put aside roughly US$30 million in its annual budget as a direct subsidy for Air Jamaica, but the carrier's more than US$500 million is part of the country's contingent liability. </div></div>
or this form june 2008

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">According to the 2006 accounts, Air Jamaica, at that time, had net current liabilities that were just under US$200 million and long- term liabilities of just under US$450 million.</div></div>

and then this:

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">An August 12, 2009, article published in the Jamaica Gleaner, stated: “Air Jamaica, which has two government-backed bonds on the market—a US$200 million issue due in 2015 and a US$125 million issue due in 2027</div></div>


when i say &quot;throw away&quot; its because they used terms like accumulated losses and accumulated debt as f they mean the same thing....my limited exposure to financial accounting tells me that they are not.

[Blackstar*]

Re: So TG u read di PNP warning to di govt re using caution

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: blakkgiant</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style="font-style: italic">dem gave seaga a latt aff money ann tell imm fii privatized ann sell aff jamaica assets. eediat seaga da master ecaanyamikk neva ovatand boom ann bust ecaanyamikk cycle soo imm spend ann fallow dem advice like itt wass credit card wey imm neva affii pay bakk. </span> </div></div>
- Who privatized Sangster Intl. Airport?
- Who sold the concession for Highway 2000 to Bouygues Travaux Publics <span style="font-weight: bold">AND</span> accepted the condition to not develop parallel transport routes which would have affected Bouygues' profit from H2K?

[Tuff Gong]

Re: Diaspora and Air J, urban farms, students, Haiti

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RichD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">TG..im basing my statemnt on what i see published

like this: from 2008
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The Government has put aside roughly US$30 million in its annual budget as a direct subsidy for Air Jamaica, but the carrier's more than US$500 million is part of the country's contingent liability. </div></div>
or this form june 2008

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">According to the 2006 accounts, Air Jamaica, at that time, had net current liabilities that were just under US$200 million and long- term liabilities of just under US$450 million.</div></div>

and then this:

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">An August 12, 2009, article published in the Jamaica Gleaner, stated: “Air Jamaica, which has two government-backed bonds on the market—a US$200 million issue due in 2015 and a US$125 million issue due in 2027</div></div>


when i say &quot;throw away&quot; its because they used terms like accumulated losses and accumulated debt as f they mean the same thing....my limited exposure to financial accounting tells me that they are not. </div></div>

From a meeting purported to be with the Prime Minister of Jamaica:

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Air Jamaica

* J$1.3 billion in debt to date</div></div>

[Tuff Gong]

Re: So TG u read di PNP warning to di govt re using caution

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BlackStar</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: blakkgiant</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style="font-style: italic">dem gave seaga a latt aff money ann tell imm fii privatized ann sell aff jamaica assets. eediat seaga da master ecaanyamikk neva ovatand boom ann bust ecaanyamikk cycle soo imm spend ann fallow dem advice like itt wass credit card wey imm neva affii pay bakk. </span> </div></div>
- Who privatized Sangster Intl. Airport?
- Who sold the concession for Highway 2000 to Bouygues Travaux Publics <span style="font-weight: bold">AND</span> accepted the condition to not develop parallel transport routes which would have affected Bouygues' profit from H2K? </div></div>

I quite enjoy how folks such as Blu claim not to care about politics, who only talk about Jamaica when is is about f@gs, always find time to make comments against Edward Seaga using fact-challenged argument while ignoring current events.

I suppose Blu have never heard of FINSAC. I am pretty sure as evil as Eddie Blinds was he would never have sold Jamaican Assets for pennies on the dollar to Texas.

[neutral]

Re: Diaspora and Air J, urban farms, students, Haiti

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tuff Gong</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

<span style="font-family: 'Arial Black'">Now if you are still instructing your client, please ask him to answer these few questions if he will</span>:

</div></div>


DWL !.....bwoy unnu good,who say this board is boring.

[RichD]

Re: Diaspora and Air J, urban farms, students, Haiti

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tuff Gong</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RichD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">TG..im basing my statemnt on what i see published

like this: from 2008
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The Government has put aside roughly US$30 million in its annual budget as a direct subsidy for Air Jamaica, but the carrier's more than US$500 million is part of the country's contingent liability. </div></div>
or this form june 2008

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">According to the 2006 accounts, Air Jamaica, at that time, had net current liabilities that were just under US$200 million and long- term liabilities of just under US$450 million.</div></div>

and then this:

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">An August 12, 2009, article published in the Jamaica Gleaner, stated: “Air Jamaica, which has two government-backed bonds on the market—a US$200 million issue due in 2015 and a US$125 million issue due in 2027</div></div>


when i say &quot;throw away&quot; its because they used terms like accumulated losses and accumulated debt as f they mean the same thing....my limited exposure to financial accounting tells me that they are not. </div></div>

From a meeting purported to be with the Prime Minister of Jamaica:

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Air Jamaica

* J$1.3 billion in debt to date</div></div> </div></div>
ok boss

[RichD]

Re: Diaspora and Air J, urban farms, students, Haiti

wonder why him use another figure


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Finance Corporation (IFC), a private sector arm of the World Bank, was charged with the responsibility of divesting Air Jamaica, which Jamaican Prime Minister Bruce Golding has said has a debt of <span style="font-weight: bold">US$1 billion</span>.</div></div>

[RichD]

Re: Diaspora and Air J, urban farms, students, Haiti

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tuff Gong</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
A. Where did he get his tossed around figures?<span style="font-weight: bold">deductive reasoning ...not swalling political sound bites... trying to find out for myself</span>
B. How does he know that his purported sources did say what they say?<span style="font-weight: bold">I purported no source</span>
C. What does it matter whether or not there a figure tossed around, placed on the table, rolled off an embankment, whatever, however? Since the Government clearly stated that the current potential purchaser is not going in any way shape or form to assume any historical debts?<span style="font-weight: bold">one of the premises of the sale to the trinidadians is that its the best option available...im questioning that ...and the fact that the gov is assumimg the debt makes me question it even more</span>
D. Who exactly is using throw-arounds to muddy the waters with red herrings?<span style="font-weight: bold"> persons who have a vested interest in the sale proceeding as proposed</span> </div></div>

[Tuff Gong]

Re: Diaspora and Air J, urban farms, students, Haiti

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RichD</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tuff Gong</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
C. What does it matter whether or not there a figure tossed around, placed on the table, rolled off an embankment, whatever, however? Since the Government clearly stated that the current potential purchaser is not going in any way shape or form to assume any historical debts?<span style="font-weight: bold">one of the premises of the sale to the trinidadians is that its the best option available...im questioning that ...and the fact that the gov is assumimg the debt makes me question it even more</span></div></div> </div></div>

Well the GOJ had already owned the Air Jamaica's Debts so it is rather unlikely that it could convince any buyer assume such a burden in a distressed sale.

What other scenarios are you visioning?
Say the CAL talks fail, would you like for the Air Jamaica Staff to get the Airline plus the debts?

[evanovitch]

Gov’t selling 2 Air J planes to pay IRS debt


The Bruce Golding administration is rushing to sell two Air Jamaica planes it owns to settle outstanding taxes to United States government.

This was disclosed by Prime Minister Bruce Golding in the House of Representatives Wednesday afternoon.

The amount of money owed by Air Jamaica to the United States' revenue authorities was not disclosed to the Parliamentarians but the tax liability appears to run into millions of US dollars.

Mr. Golding said the US Internal Revenue Service (IRS) is serious about collecting outstanding taxes from Air Jamaica and this obligation involves two of the eight air craft operated by the national airline.

The two planes are directly owned by the government and Mr. Golding said Jamaican diplomats have been in discussions with the US government to prevent any embarrassment to his administration as a result of the outstanding tax debt.

&quot;We owe a lot of money (and) we've had to use diplomatic channels to avoid our planes being seized for none payment of fees that are owed to the American government, the IRS in particular. It has been proposed to dispose of those state aircrafts in order to discharge that obligation,&quot; Mr. Golding said.