Jamaicans abroad upset at sale of Air J

[Tuff Gong]

Re: Diaspora and Air J, urban farms, students, Haiti

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RichD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">what rules are those?</div></div>

Long time ago wasn't it decided that for legal and other reasons that links to a source when quote from elsewhere is posted?
I mean I have never read the Board Rules but if I remember correctly we have had about five or so discussions.kas-kas/quarrels on quoting articles and the fit and proper way to do it.

Other than that is how you can protect yourself when you use snippets of conversation.

[RichD]

Re: Diaspora and Air J, urban farms, students, Haiti

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tuff Gong</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RichD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">what rules are those?</div></div>

Long time ago wasn't it decided that for legal and other reasons that links to a source when quote from elsewhere is posted?
I mean I have never read the Board Rules but if I remember correctly we have had about five or so discussions.kas-kas/quarrels on quoting articles and the fit and proper way to do it.

Other than that is how you can protect yourself when you use snippets of conversation. </div></div>


well the short of it is that after legal opinion was sought no link is required..it is nice to have and helpful(maybe even polite) but not required legally or by board rule.

[mountaingal]

Re: Diaspora and Air J, urban farms, students, Haiti

it sound as if the actions of the diaspora, misguided as some may view them, have at least led to a greater scrutiny of the whole business. who knows, if they hadn't taken up the pilots' cause, the decisions may have been put through and is only afterward people find out the full extent of the negotiations/contracts.

[RichD]

Re: Diaspora and Air J, urban farms, students, Haiti

well it looks like the trinidadians (citizens) are uneasy about the purchase too

[Tuff Gong]

Re: Diaspora and Air J, urban farms, students, Haiti

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RichD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">not even sure why this is relevant to the discussion at hand?

unless you are arguing that itis the duty of the govt to ensure they get the maximum return when divesting any asset? </div></div>

LOL please so you are dragging a red herring technicality around about the legalese of debt vs. losses and you refuse to consider the macro picture. Now I have attempted to point out that error and suddenly it is not important?

Air Jamaica or any GOJ entity losses means more borrowed money = more debts.
additionally Air Jamaica was allowed to borrow money for years with the GOJ backed guarantees, they then turn around with the acquiescence of the GOJ and rolled those items up into so-called losses.

So at the end of the day any losses made year or year by Air Jamaica resulted in a debt note held by the GOJ.

[RichD]

Re: Diaspora and Air J, urban farms, students, Haiti

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tuff Gong</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

LOL please so you are dragging a red herring technicality around about the legalese of debt vs. losses and you refuse to consider the macro picture. Now I have attempted to point out that error and suddenly it is not important?

Air Jamaica or any GOJ entity losses means more borrowed money = more debts.
<span style="font-weight: bold">additionally Air Jamaica was allowed to borrow money for years with the GOJ backed guarantees, they then turn around with the acquiescence of the GOJ and rolled those items up into so-called losses.</span>

So at the end of the day any losses made year or year by Air Jamaica resulted in a debt note held by the GOJ. </div></div>

so the question again is raised..is it in the best interest of the country to &quot;give&quot; this asset to somebody else without carefully assessing all the implications and options?


question for you directly: Do you think this is the best option available to them right now?

[Tuff Gong]

Re: Diaspora and Air J, urban farms, students, Haiti

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MGee</div><div class="ubbcode-body">it sound as if the actions of the diaspora, misguided as some may view them, have at least led to a greater scrutiny of the whole business. who knows, if they hadn't taken up the pilots' cause, the decisions may have been put through and is only afterward people find out the full extent of the negotiations/contracts. </div></div>

Years ago if you posted any questions about Air Jamaica that was considered negative you were hounded off the board, threatened with lawsuit or punished in some other ways. This was mirrored on other boards.

Years ago the Diaspora should have questioned the running of Air Joke not wait till the point of no return.

[Tuff Gong]

Re: Diaspora and Air J, urban farms, students, Haiti

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RichD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">so the question again is raised..is it in the best interest of the country to &quot;give&quot; this asset to somebody else without carefully assessing all the implications and options?</div></div>

Air Jamaica is not an asset Air Jamaica is an appendage and a very expensive one. Long time ago it was written that we were going to add some very expensive boutique items to Jamaica's ridh portfolio.
It was further written that they only way we get to keep those toys is:

1 if those toys did not break the bank.
2 if we kept up the payment on everything else.

<span style="font-family: 'Arial Black'">We have renege on all fronts.
</span>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RichD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">question for you directly: Do you think this is the best option available to them right now? </div></div>

The GOJ has zero options.
The GOJ has one negotiating partner at this moment, if the negotiations fall through other another entity might step up, bearing in mind that that the Lead Bird is dead and the only thing the GOJ can ask for is a decent burial.

[mountaingal]

Re: Diaspora and Air J, urban farms, students, Haiti

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tuff Gong</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MGee</div><div class="ubbcode-body">it sound as if the actions of the diaspora, misguided as some may view them, have at least led to a greater scrutiny of the whole business. who knows, if they hadn't taken up the pilots' cause, the decisions may have been put through and is only afterward people find out the full extent of the negotiations/contracts. </div></div>

Years ago if you posted any questions about Air Jamaica that was considered negative you were hounded off the board, threatened with lawsuit or punished in some other ways. This was mirrored on other boards.

Years ago the Diaspora should have questioned the running of Air Joke not wait till the point of no return. </div></div>

maybe. but at this point their intervention is related to how the airline is being disposed of, and is valid on those grounds, imo.

[RichD]

Re: Diaspora and Air J, urban farms, students, Haiti

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tuff Gong</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RichD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">so the question again is raised..is it in the best interest of the country to &quot;give&quot; this asset to somebody else without carefully assessing all the implications and options?</div></div>

Air Jamaica is not an asset Air Jamaica is an appendage and a very expensive one. Long time ago it was written that we were going to add some very expensive boutique items to Jamaica's ridh portfolio.
It was further written that they only way we get to keep those toys is:

1 if those toys did not break the bank.
2 if we kept up the payment on everything else.

<span style="font-family: 'Arial Black'">We have renege on all fronts.
</span>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RichD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">question for you directly: Do you think this is the best option available to them right now? </div></div>

The GOJ has zero options.
The GOJ has one negotiating partner at this moment, if the negotiations fall through other another entity might step up, bearing in mind that that the Lead Bird is dead and the only thing the GOJ can ask for is a decent burial. </div></div>

i guess this i the major area where our opinions diverge...I view it as a significant asset..they have tried to devalue it but it still has significant value.

and secondly i think they do have options

[Tuff Gong]

Re: Diaspora and Air J, urban farms, students, Haiti

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MGee</div><div class="ubbcode-body">maybe. but at this point their intervention is related to how the airline is being disposed of, and is valid on those grounds, imo.
</div></div>
Let me hurry to agree with you and say <span style="font-family: 'Arial Black'">yes increased scrutiny is welcome</span>is good and we are having good conversations about it.
But it should be a lesson for us not to ignore an injury till it fester and it is time to cut of a limb.

[Tuff Gong]

Re: Diaspora and Air J, urban farms, students, Haiti

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RichD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">i guess this i the major area where our opinions diverge...I view it as a significant asset..they have tried to devalue it but it still has significant value.

and secondly i think they do have options </div></div>

The assets of Jamaica are its people, the land beneath us and the collective of Jamaicans.
I sell junk I have been selling precious metal items that valued hundreds of dollars more than the junk prices that I am reinitializing, just to pay bills.

What you consider an asset is junk if it going to drag you under the waters. There are zero options only a face-saving exit.

[RichD]

Re: Diaspora and Air J, urban farms, students, Haiti

as whole it might be dragging them down..but they ae keeping the bad pats and getting rid of the parts that have any value...they are keeping the debt and selling the landing slots..the human resources...the name recognition anything that might have some value.

[Dyoll_73]

Re: Diaspora and Air J, urban farms, students, Haiti

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tuff Gong</div><div class="ubbcode-body">... the Lead Bird is dead and the only thing the GOJ can ask for is a decent burial. </div></div>

Well, already the requiem is being prepared. Sad!

[Tuff Gong]

Re: Diaspora and Air J, urban farms, students, Haiti

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RichD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">as whole it might be dragging them down..but they ae keeping the bad pats and getting rid of the parts that have any value...they are keeping the debt and selling the landing slots..the human resources...the name recognition anything that might have some value. </div></div>GOJ is obligated to pay the debts. They stood as gurantors.
As for the rest as I said before they are not assets we have an open skies agreement anyone could setup shop and fly to Jamaica with the correct Civil Aviation credentials and access to the slots.
The staff can do like other Jamaicans that have been let go.

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