What's up with Fidel ?

[R_C]

Re: What's up with Fidel fundamentalism

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Derek</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rollin_Calf</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Remo and Derek. What is the point of the quotes you guys made? You’ve lost me. </div></div>


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rollin_Calf</div><div class="ubbcode-body">but the Bilderberg thing....I don't know.</div></div>


In case you think secret organisations such as the Bilderberg Group, Club of Rome, Committee of 300 etc are just figments of conspiracy imaginations.
Former president Woodrow Wilson was well aware of the existence of such cliques.</div></div>

Whether they exist is not the issue. Whether they function as some conspiracy theorists claim is another.



<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Derek</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If Fidel had said Bin Laden WAS a CIA agent rather than IS a CIA agent, would be all still be debating? </div></div>

No. I already said the following in a previous post; &quot;<span style="font-style: italic">Bin Laden may have been a CIA operative during the Soviet Union’s adventure in Afghanistan, I won’t argue that point.</span>&quot;

[R_C]

Re: What's up with Fidel fundamentalism

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: remo</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rollin_Calf</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: remo</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rollin_Calf</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Remo and Derek. What is the point of the quotes you guys made? You’ve lost me.
</div></div>

isn't it obvious we are conspracy theorists?...My response was to your Bilderberg Club comment </div></div>

What was the context of FDR's statement ? </div></div>

Well believe it or not I wasn't there when he made this comment or indeed if it was taken out of context.....I can only surmise that he was open minded as I am </div></div>


Nothing that we read makes any sense without a context. Context is always determinative.

[Marielle]

Re: What's up with Fidel ?

Hi Johnny,

Ever been in Cuba?

Just wondering, cos I've been 3x

[halfwaytree]

Re: What's up with Fidel ?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Marielle</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hi Johnny,

Ever been in Cuba?

Just wondering, cos I've been 3x </div></div>

<span style="font-family: 'Verdana'"><span style="font-size: 8pt"><span style="font-style: italic">I was there last month and I'm returning next week.</span></span></span>

[neutral]

Re: What's up with Fidel fundamentalism

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rollin_Calf</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

. It is a reference to the fact that, for example, what the ultimate outcomes of some US interventions are, whether the United States should use force to stop atrocities and prevent countries from mistreating their own citizens (regimes that ethnically cleanse troublesome populations comes to mind) or for that matter, even take sides in civil wars, are not a settled issues.


</div></div>

I cannot think of one single occasion where the US has intervened to stop an actrocity in another country and not ended up causing an actrocity itself.

It is well trumpeted that the US does not do nation building,wherever the occasion has arise that makes it necessary for them to send their soldiers the outcome has ended in death and destruction.
As in the case of Iraq,these guys go in supposedly to stop/prevent a country from mistreating their citizens...........and end up doing a whole lot of mistreating in order to achieve their aims.

How the hell can you use force to stop actrocities....it has never been proven in history that you can commit actrocity to prevent actrocity.

[franksterr]

Re: What's up with Fidel ?

Rollin_Calf

Its been a busy week forgive me, for the long delayed response.
In my last two communications with you I was in haste, and left out some pertinent info.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">frankster, In terms of a pretext, there is no doubt that the US government claimed the purpose of invading Afghanistan after 9/11 was to eliminate the Taliban regime (and replace them with the corrupt Karzai as it turns out), neutralize Al-Qaeda, find Osama bin Laden and put him on trial. On that we can agree. The rest of your list is a conflation of fact, conjecture, apodeictic assertions and untruth ( e.g. Bin Laden<span style="font-style: italic"> is</span> on the FBI’s ten most wanted list ) so it is useless for the purpose intended.</div></div>

Thanks for the update....He is not on the list for 911 is the info I left out
You ask what made him different and I have provide you with several reasons why many people believe he is still working for the CIA


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Bin Laden may have been a CIA operative during the Soviet Union’s adventure in Afghanistan, I won’t argue that point. His problems with the US backed Saudi puppet regime after the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait however are as well documented as his jihadist credentials so I am trying to understand what is the <span style="font-weight: bold">factual </span>basis of the idea that he was (? and still is) in the employ and acting on the behalf of the US government in some conspiratorial role during the Bush years.</div></div>

There is no doubt that Osama once worked for or with the CIA, what is in question is if he still does.
What is it that makes him different? their is a long history of family ties that Osama enjoys that most other assets dont

The Bush Family and the Bin Laden family have ties through such companies as the now defunct BCCI and the Carlyle Group. It is these connections that lead many to believe that Bin Laden may still be an agent of the CIA

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Incidentally, that Fidel would be embracing the ideas of Daniel Estulin, and by extension Lyndon LaRouche, speaks to his wisdom in stepping down from day to day involvement in public life.
</div></div>

Fidel is old and one thing old people are good at is letting their tongues wag away, oftentimes letting out old embarrassing secrets


I have given you several reason why Osama could still be in the employ of the US, Here is another they - US may not really be looking for him after all.

[Derek]

Re: What's up with Fidel fundamentalism

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rollin_Calf</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Whether they exist is not the issue. Whether they function as some conspiracy theorists claim is another.</div></div>

The secrecy and the fact that carefully-selected, invited journalists are not allowed to comment on the topics raised (Bilderberg) leads me to think they're discussing things they don't want me to know about.


Why are there never press releases about the issues they talk about behind closed doors?


Remember when Obama was elected? He immediately disappeared and the news desks were speculating that he must be at Hilary Clinton's home.
He wasn't. He was taken to a Bilderberg meeting.

[johnnycakes]

Re: What's up with Fidel fundamentalism

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Derek</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rollin_Calf</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Whether they exist is not the issue. Whether they function as some conspiracy theorists claim is another.</div></div>

The secrecy and the fact that carefully-selected, invited journalists are not allowed to comment on the topics raised (Bilderberg) leads me to think they're discussing things they don't want me to know about.


Why are there never press releases about the issues they talk about behind closed doors?


Remember when Obama was elected? He immediately disappeared and the news desks were speculating that he must be at Hilary Clinton's home.
He wasn't. He was taken to a Bilderberg meeting.



</div></div>


I agree with Rollin-Calf that it is a matter of whether they function as some say they do and I think Fidel was saying that bin Ladin seems to pop up with more vague threats or hostile statements just when that sort of thing is needed to scare the people of the United States into supporting another expenditure for war/empire.
Whether witting or unwitting, that sort of timely appearance of the new post Cold War threat &quot;TERROISM&quot; personified in bin Ladin serves the purposes of empire: getting the populace to support imperial programs and the expenses thereof.

Fidel IS now relatively free to say what he feels rather than what he must say as the leader of a country. That said, he is still head of the Communist Party and the moral political, near-mythic conscience of the Cuban Revolution and as such must temper his words to some degree.
I've read a ton of Fidel's speeches and a lot of books about him both pro and con since the early 60's . Read every interview with him that I could avail myself of. I now read his &quot;Reflections&quot; column regularly and from what I can see and understand, he has not changed very much . His views remain consistent and principled.
Fidel may not be perfect but IMO he is certainly way ahead of any other leader in the world in the 20th and so far in the 21st century in what he has done for the world and his own people, all in the face of a hostile United States.

[neutral]

Re: What's up with Fidel fundamentalism

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: johnnycakes</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Fidel may not be perfect but IMO he is certainly way ahead of any other leader in the world in the 20th and so far in the 21st century in what he has done for the world and his own people, all in the face of a hostile United States. </div></div>


I agree absolutely,....despite the years of vindictiveness and spitefullness from the US,good ole Fidel has remained true to his people and true to his principles.
They try and make him out to be a hate figure but he has not invaded any country,he has not started any illegal wars in any countries,he has not meddled in other countries affairs,or cause the death of hundreds of thousands through his actions,.......history will vindicate him as the great and inspirational leader he is.