Wikileaks

[Derek]

Hillary told American diplomats to spy on other countries' diplomats at the UN - including British staff.
Saudis urging the US to attack Iran.
Alleged links between Russian government and organised crime.
Prince Andrew's 'inappropriate behaviour' abroad
British Foreign Secretary William Hague shared hotel room with openly gay male politician.



Nothing new there then!

[Magician]

Re: Wikileaks

Laundry come to wash.

[Xavier]

Re: Wikileaks

Do you agree with Wikileaks for posting the information?

[Blackstar*]

Re: Wikileaks

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Xavier</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style="font-style: italic">Do you agree with Wikileaks for posting the information? </span></div></div>
Yes, except the bit about William Hague...unless he was married.
These seem to be the most important items:<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style="font-style: italic">Saudis urging the US to attack Iran.
Alleged links between Russian government and organised crime.</span></div></div>

[Xavier]

Re: Wikileaks

I agree with freedom of speech but when it starts to hurt someone else is where I think it is very 'grey&quot;. There are numerous lives that may be changed by what they publish. There may even be a few people killed.

[Blackstar*]

Re: Wikileaks

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style="font-style: italic">One of the most interesting items in the trove of diplomatic cables released by Wikileaks confirms that the Obama Administration has secretly launched missile attacks on suspected terrorists in Yemen, strikes that have reportedly killed dozens of civilians. The government of Yemen takes responsibility for the attacks. More... </span></div></div>

[Skelly]

Re: Wikileaks

I think it depends....as you say the line has to be drawn when it comes to endangering lives...

[johnnycakes]

Re: Wikileaks

This is a mixed blessing.
Diplomacy is often secret due to necessity.
An NPR reporter likened many of the releases as akin to something negative you might say about your mother-in-law to someone else in the family but which you would never say to her face.
It's embarrasing.

The way the State Department, which of course, is all about diplomacy is going on about the danger these leaks are to agents of the government is mostly nonsense.
The leaks are just totally embarrassing and only show what I'm sure those involved are already aware of.

One thing I found very funny was State Department spokesperson P.J. (maybe T.J. ) Crowley said very emphatically that all people in posts like the U.N. and elsewhere whom the leaks showed were involved in spying and getting dirt on Ban Ki Moon, the head of the U.N. ( probably for blackmailing purposes), all these &quot;diplomats&quot; were REALLY REALLY diplomats and not professional spies. Honest, cross my heart and hope to die (or at least be waterboarded.).

This of course is a total lie because anyone at all knowledgeable about how these things work know that the embassies of every country and especially the embassies of the United States are loaded with CIA agents.

The Wikileak papers are going to be released completely over the next ten days so you can be sure that this story is not going to just go away in a day or two.

You can also be sure that we will soon see photoshopped pictures of Putin and Medvedev dressed in Batman and Robin outfits all over the net.

Julian Asange, the head of Wikileaks meanwhile faces rape charges and I would be very surprised if he was not set up/framed by the CIA or other organization to shut him up. Hopefully a Swedish jury would also see this and refuse to convict him.

If the sexual assault charges are true however, I hope he gets what he deserves but also hope he has set up someone reliable to carry on the Wikileak work because what Wikileaks is doing is a very valuable service to democracy.
Democracy, after all is dependent on the people knowing what their government is doing so that they can direct their representatives in what they do.

Sorry , that is how it is SUPPOSED to work. The reality is that the representatives of the people, in fact, do what the wealthy corporations tell them to do.
This is often diametrically opposed to what the people want so things they do must necessarily kept secret.

Julian Asange should be considered a hero of democracy and all the more if the State Department which is a primary instrument of the Empire says he is a danger. (They are lying to us as is always their professional duty)

[Blackstar*]

Re: Wikileaks

Iran is in denial. <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style="font-style: italic">Iran's president says leaked American diplomatic cables recounting Arab calls for the U.S. to launch a strike on Iran's nuclear facilities were intended to stir &quot;mischief.&quot; More... </span></div></div>

[Blackstar*]

Re: Wikileaks

One good thing about the leaks: they show the US thrashing about like a bull in a china shop, causing more damage than it is preventing. Maybe the leaks will <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-size: 11pt">prevent </span></span> more lives being endangered, like in Yemen for example.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style="font-style: italic">The Dec. 17 Abyan attack killed 55 people, 41 one of whom were civilians, including 21 children</span></div></div>

[Blackstar*]

Re: Wikileaks

Somebody in the Obama administration really wrote this with a straight face?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style="font-style: italic">The White House immediately condemned the release of the WikiLeaks documents, saying &quot;such disclosures put at risk our diplomats, intelligence professionals and people around the world who come to the United States for assistance in promoting democracy and <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-size: 11pt">open government</span></span>.&quot; </span></div></div>
Tell that to the Yemeni children who most certainly did not go the United States for any such assistance!

[johnnycakes]

Re: Wikileaks

For Xavier and Skelly,

When you talk about the possibility of these leaks endangering lives you should really remember or understand that the State Department is the semi-public face of a most murderous and atrocious U.S. foreign policy that results in the deaths of MILLIONS of people around the world for their money or their resources.

Even the lowest person, a clerk or a typist in that organization shares the guilt for those deaths by being a blind and willing accomplice to these atrocities.

Are you then expressing concern for these people rather than the innocent people they kill?

How can you wish them anything other than what they sow or at least abstain from what appears to be a defense of these enemies of humanity ?

[Peasie]

Re: Wikileaks

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: johnnycakes</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Even the lowest person, a clerk or a typist in that organization shares the guilt for those deaths by being a blind and willing accomplice to these atrocities.</div></div>

This is way harsh.

[Blackstar*]

Re: Wikileaks

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Peasie</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: johnnycakes</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style="font-style: italic">Even the lowest person, a clerk or a typist in that organization shares the guilt for those deaths by being a blind and willing accomplice to these atrocities.</span></div></div>
<span style="font-style: italic">This is way harsh. </span></div></div>
I actually agree with JC that people who are aware of these various misdeeds and don't find a way to blow the whistle are complicit. Presumably many of them drank the kool-aid and think it's all in the country's best interests. Personally, I know I would have to say something.

[johnnycakes]

Re: Wikileaks

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Peasie</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: johnnycakes</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Even the lowest person, a clerk or a typist in that organization shares the guilt for those deaths by being a blind and willing accomplice to these atrocities.</div></div>

This is way harsh. </div></div>


Peasie,

If it were the Mafia or a drug gang and the State Department people were just numbers runners or drug mules would you feel that I was being &quot;harsh&quot;.

Is not U.S. foreign policy considerably more than &quot;harsh&quot; if it uses lies, euphemisms in totally misleading the public as to the atrocities it commits throughout the world ?

Or do you just happen to know someone close who works for the State Department whom you believe to be a good person other than aiding and abetting mass murder ?

Can you elaborate on why you think I am being harsh?

I know that I am in a very small minority of people who think as I do on this matter so your thinking on the matter more than likely reflects that of the general public and a deeper explanation of why you think I am being harsh would be helpful.