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Re: Smart phones being made in sweat shops in China
China own Volvo and Hummer. India owned Land Rover and Jaguar.
China own Volvo and Hummer. India owned Land Rover and Jaguar.
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Re: Smart phones being made in sweat shops in China
Anyting mi find out bout mi boycott.
Caw if wi neva a look cheapness at all costs, dem tings couldn gwaan.Comment
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Re: Smart phones being made in sweat shops in China
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rollin_Calf</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: johnnycakes</div><div class="ubbcode-body">We all do our part by not recognizing what is evil and what is not. What is moral and what is not. It is much easier to close our eyes and buy that cheap pair of jeans and blindly accept what is.. </div></div>
Where do you buy and what brand of jeans do you wear jc ? </div></div>
I buy almost all my clothes at Salvation Army. They of course do not sell socks or underwear so I buy them at Walmart or wherever cheapest.
But what you are really asking is why don't I buy my underwear from a place that does not get them from sweatshops and the answer is: THERE ARE NO SUCH PLACES.
Globalization of capitalism, the race to the bottom has driven the survivors to China, to Bangladesh, to the sweatshops. Even that plant between Mobay and Negril that used to make underwear for Jockey and the another manufacturer dropped their wages to the point people only worked there because there was no other work nearby.I do not think they are still in business because even at wages so low people didn't want the job , they couldn't compete.
We are FORCED to buy from sweatshop using manufacturers or go without.
The immorality comes from those who don't care about workers and the poor and are quite happy about the cheap stuff they can get and who blindly and fiercely support capitalism. If you support capitalism you have to support the existence of sweatshops.
You do not ever see me say a good word about capitalism do you.
I push for democratic socialism every chance I get.
How about you?Comment
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Re: Smart phones being made in sweat shops in China
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rollin_Calf</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: johnnycakes</div><div class="ubbcode-body">We all do our part by not recognizing what is evil and what is not. What is moral and what is not. It is much easier to close our eyes and buy that cheap pair of jeans and blindly accept what is.. </div></div>
Do you have a pension plan jc ? </div></div>
Rollin_Calf,
I know this specious argument all too well.
Of course I have pension plans.
If I did not I would not be able to eat, pay the rent, taxes, drive a car etc.
Pensions are necessary if you live in a capitalist society whether you like the system or not.
You have to eat.
There are those of us who speak out against the immorality of the U.S way of live and death and who work for change and those who blindly support it and through their ignorance of the evil of that system choose to denigrate and question those who do.
You choose to be a part of the solution or a part of the problem and that is where the morality comes in.Comment
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Re: Smart phones being made in sweat shops in China
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rollin_Calf</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: johnnycakes</div><div class="ubbcode-body">We all do our part by not recognizing what is evil and what is not. What is moral and what is not. It is much easier to close our eyes and buy that cheap pair of jeans and blindly accept what is.. </div></div>
When you become eligible for social security will you be accepting the money ? </div></div>
Rollin_Calf,
I am and I do.
It is how the system works.
and like much in our capitalist system the payout is insufficient to live on decently.
Which is why we and the world needs a democratic socialist system where human need comes before greed.Comment
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Re: Smart phones being made in sweat shops in China
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TonyRoyal</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Johnny I have to stop you!!!!!!
CAPITALISM WORKS. SOCIALISM is DEAD!!!
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Every year In the world tens of millions of the poorest people living in capitalist economies die of starvation and preventable or curable diseases because under capitalism that cannot earn enough money to survive.
Are you so blind that you can't see this?
In the United States the richest and most successful capitalist state there is a 25% poverty rate, 50 million people without adequate health care, some 37 million who do not know where their next meal is coming from.
Just what alternate universe do you live in that you cannot see these things ?
Were you born and living in rural Rwanda, you wouldn't be as ignorant as you are.
It is by the luck of the draw that you were born into a comfortable life and didn't die at age 3 months with a bloated belly.
That better CEABEE?)
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Re: Smart phones being made in sweat shops in China
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TonyRoyal</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you don't like your job and feel that you're being underpaid or treated unfairly! Find another job!
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That is easier said dan done. It is not dat easy fi duh wen jobs are very hard to come by in those countries, or yuh haffi kno di right people fi get ie inna di first place. Yuh caa jus walk away from it wen yuh immediate and extended family is depending pan yuh.Comment
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Re: Smart phones being made in sweat shops in China
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: andronian2</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Anyting mi find out bout mi boycott.
Caw if wi neva a look cheapness at all costs, dem tings couldn gwaan.
</div></div>
China ah boot-leg Ackee yet?Comment
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Re: Smart phones being made in sweat shops in China
Guys,......lets keep it civil. We were doing half way decent so far.
Wi can disagree without hitting too far below di belt.
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Re: Smart phones being made in sweat shops in China
Yes you're right jkid,
Let's not upset anyone by being truthful.
I think the Chinese who work for 50 cents a day have it good compared to the 25 cent a day workers in Bangladesh don't you.
If they are so lazy that they don't want to work, who are we to complain that they're starving or mistreated.
We owe a great debt of gratitude to Tony Royal for pointing out the shortsightedness of our ways.
Those Chinese and Bangladeshis would just waste the money if they were paid more than the bus fare they need to get back and forth to work.
Is no one considering the tough economic times for the factory owners who have to limit their lifestyles to just 10 or 12 homes and a dozen cars and private jet planes?
Too bad Mubarak didn't take TR's advice and just shoot those poor people in Tahrir Square, he'd still be president now.
You're absolutely right Jkid and the moderators, we have to be nice to those who are really great humanitarians and who are spreading the word of Christ and doing Christ's work whom we are too blinded by our own anger and ignorance to recognize as such.
Thanks for straightening me out on this.
You're doing your part.Comment
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Re: Smart phones being made in sweat shops in China
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: johnnycakes</div><div class="ubbcode-body">We are FORCED to buy from sweatshop using manufacturers or go without.
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The point JC, is that you need to check yourself. You cannot presume to be repeatedly lecturing us on the morality of the choices we make when you yourself are availing yourself of the goods and services that are produced in sweatshops. As far as social security and pension plans are concerned, and as you well know, the funds that generate the checks that you use or plan to use in order to eat when you retire, are invested in the stocks of some of the same companies that you are vilifying.
You are trying to have it both ways. That's fine with me. Go right ahead. But you can't then expect to have any credibility here when you tell me that you, for example, are "forced to buy at Walmart" (are you kidding me !) while presuming to lecture us all on the morality of the choices WE make.
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Re: Smart phones being made in sweat shops in Chi
BOAL
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Re: Smart phones being made in sweat shops in China
JC, my problem was not with your passion, or most of what you said.
We all have the right to the way we fee. I just think it was totally unnecessary to refer to a board member as a posterior canal, das all. Di disagreement is good it makes for a interesting an lively discussion but we can disagree without crossing the lines of civility, especially if we are not joking.
Personally, I welcome the diversity around here, even if I may not agree with the point of view.Comment
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Re: Smart phones being made in sweat shops in China
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rollin_Calf</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Now weren't Diddy ("Sean John"
, Jay-Z ("Roca Wear" and Russell Simmons ("Phat Pharm" raked over the coals in the media for the conditions under which the garment workers in Honduras who made their clothes (at a whopping average of about 50 cents per sweatshirt) toiled ?
Waiting to see if Apple and Nokia get the same treatment.</div></div>
Since cell phones went on the market they have allll been made in third world countries... and 90% of our wardrobes... and cars, TVs, clothes,... EVERYTHING! Look around your house... what do you see that <span style="font-style: italic">wasn't</span> made by third world workers?
If Americans made Iphones in factories in the States they would probably cost $2,000 each.Comment
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Re: Smart phones being made in sweat shops in China
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rollin_Calf</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: johnnycakes</div><div class="ubbcode-body">We are FORCED to buy from sweatshop using manufacturers or go without.
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The point JC, is that you need to check yourself. You cannot presume to be repeatedly lecturing us on the moragfgfglity of the choices we make when you yourself are availing yourself of the goods and services that are produced in sweatshops. As far as social security and pension plans are concerned, and as you well know, the funds that generate the checks that you use or plan to use in order to eat when you retire, are invested in the stocks of some of the same companies that you are vilifying.
You are trying to have it both ways. That's fine with me. Go right ahead. But you can't then expect to have any credibility here when you tell me that you, for example, are "forced to buy at Walmart" (are you kidding me !) while presuming to lecture us all on the morality of the choices WE make.
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Rollin_Calf,
I have heard this criticism before of hypocrisy on the part of those of who exist within the systems we criticize. Usually it comes from the far right because they dislike communists more than do the liberals with whom we have slightly more in common.
Even Noam Chomsky who has a couple of million dollars and the same TIAA-CREF pension I have has been faced with the same charge and I will answer it as he did. (paraphrased)
What are the alternatives for those of us who think the economic and political systems of the country suck? Are we supposed to live in the street and beg after working 40 years? There are no alternatives to having a pension invested in capitalist enterprises because that's how they are set up (except Social Security). In TIAA-CREF (college type pensions) You can only put so much of your own pension money into green or socially conscious funds. That's what I did , that I presume is what Chomsky did. But that is the extent to which you can go.
As for having to shop at Walmart, I used Walmart just because it is a name we all know. You can buy underwear and socks at any store and they all come from China.
Any sock or underwear manufacturer who retails for twice or three times the price
of the same items at discount stores is soon out of business. Where else do you suggest I buy my underwear (besides Victoria's Secret). And I am not about to buy U.S. made custom boxer shorts for $15.00 a pair living on a small pension and Social Security.
To the point:
You do not see me in here attacking critics of either capitalism or the corrupt multi-party electoral system we have. You see me in here attacking those things, bringing the many atrocities and outrages to the attention of those who would otherwise know nothing or little about the evils of the two systems.
I throw these in the face of those who post things supporting the tragedy that is capitalism to wake them to the things THEY should be out in the streets about.
A good analogy just came to mind:
Henry David Thoreau was in jail for civil disobedience : for protesting something he thought wrong. He was visited by Ralph Waldo Emerson who upon seeing Thoreau behind bars said " David, what are you doing in there?" to which Thoreau replied:
"The question is what are YOU doing out there?"
And that's my question for you:
Why aren't YOU as vociferous in your criticism of what is as we (on the left) are?
What happened to YOUR moral compass?
I get the feeling that you want to shoot the messenger because the message hits a bit too close to home.
If you choose to support abhorrent and inhumane systems and don't like it pointed out I'd say your problem is with cognitive dissonance or your conscience or both.
What is the saying? something like "All we have to do for evil to succeed is do nothing"
What are you doing?Comment
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