France Bans Muslim Women from Wearing Burkas

[RichD]

Re: france bans burka

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Natral_browning</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
.. if your religion is so important to you then go where you can practise it without being criticised or told what not to wear. </div></div> i bet they thought thats where they were already

[X]

Re: france bans burka

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RichD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">[personally i think nudist should be able to walk around nude if they feel like it..i don't see any need pass a law banning it

</div></div>

So you'd be ok with these nude young protestors in your community then.. or is it that you also live in a<span style="font-weight: bold"> G-Rated </span>community which has rules to abide by

<span style="font-style: italic">countdown to image deletion .. (and a possible warning or banning It was nice know u all :bawl: hopefully smaddy else will school the RichDon..
</span>

[RichD]

Re: france bans burka

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pleXxed</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RichD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">[personally i think nudist should be able to walk around nude if they feel like it..i don't see any need pass a law banning it

</div></div>

Soyou'd be ok with these nude young protestors in your community then.. or is it that you also live in a<span style="font-weight: bold"> G-Rated </span>community which has rules to abide by

</div></div>

don't confuse mr xavier message bard with the greater community

[Yuriatin]

Re: france bans burka

LOL! edit reason!

<span style="font-style: italic"><span style="color: #FF0000">
Edited by RichD (1 minute 11 seconds ago)
Edit Reason: come on man</span></span><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pleXxed</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RichD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">[personally i think nudist should be able to walk around nude if they feel like it..i don't see any need pass a law banning it

</div></div>

So you'd be ok with these nude young protestors in your community then.. or is it that you also live in a<span style="font-weight: bold"> G-Rated </span>community which has rules to abide by

<span style="font-style: italic">countdown to image deletion .. (and a possible warning or banning It was nice know u all :bawl: hopefully smaddy else will school the RichDon..
</span>

</div></div>

[X]

Re: france bans burka

Dont confuse France's Law with Canada's Charter of Rights

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RichD</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pleXxed</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RichD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">[personally i think nudist should be able to walk around nude if they feel like it..i don't see any need pass a law banning it

</div></div>

Soyou'd be ok with these nude young protestors in your community then.. or is it that you also live in a<span style="font-weight: bold"> G-Rated </span>community which has rules to abide by

</div></div>

don't confuse mr xavier message bard with the greater community </div></div>

[RichD]

Re: france bans burka

when the young lady challenged the law on toplessness and won there was this wringing of hand that now the flood gates woudl be open ..when was the last time you saw a topless woman on the street in Ontario? same thing would happen if there was no nudity law.

[RichD]

Re: france bans burka

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pleXxed</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Dont confuse France's Law with Canada's Charter of Rights

</div></div>

most western countries have a similar basis of rights(France):;

IV. Political liberty consists in the power of doing whatever does not injure another. The
exercise of the natural rights of every man, has no other limits than those which are
necessary to secure to every other man the free exercise of the same rights; and these
limits are determinable only by the law.
V. The law ought to prohibit only actions hurtful to society. What is not prohibited by the law, should not be hindered; nor should any one be compelled to that which the law doesnot require.

[X]

Re: france bans burka

the simple fact is that being nude is against at least one law.. that is &quot;indecent exposure&quot;..
While you claim there is no law against it, try walking out your door nude and see how fast you a-zz would be grass..

Similary the French has societal laws and norms that should be obeyed, regardless of YOUR (convenient) beliefs.

This is one of those rots in the core of Christianity now-a-days.. this docile, passive, acceptance of everything that is NOT Christian..
That naïve ,PC, lazy, lack of discipline and conviction..

Each time someone tells me that as a Christian (minded) person we should be this passive, accepting bunch of doves, I remember the teaching about when Jesus got angry in the temple.
People has decided to ignore the rules of the temple and had all but turned the place into a market..
Jesus could have done what you suggest.. “Oh, its their belief, they need to make a living, lowe dem to sell dem stuff” OR he could do what he did, he got angy, turned over the tables, created a whip and started beating their a—zz, exclaiming <span style="font-style: italic">“A whey di baxside unno a gwaan wid in a MY FATHER”S HOUSE!!!? </span>.
Jesus wasn’t about to skin nuh teeth with people taking advantage of the rules of his father’s home.
Same as how France is brave to enforce the rules of their general religious beliefs.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">John 2:13-16
The Passover of the Jews was at hand, and Jesus went up to Jerusalem. 14 In the temple he found those who were selling oxen and sheep and pigeons, and the money-changers sitting there. 15 And making a whip of cords, he drove them all out of the temple, with the sheep and oxen. And he poured out the coins of the money-changers and overturned their tables. 16 And he told those who sold the pigeons, “Take these things away; do not make my Father's house a house of trade.”

</div></div>

[RichD]

Re: france bans burka

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pleXxed</div><div class="ubbcode-body">the simple fact is that being nude is against at least one law.. that is &quot;indecent exposure&quot;..
<span style="font-weight: bold">While you claim there is no law against it</span>, try walking out your door nude and see how fast you a-zz would be grass..

</div></div> where did i make that claim?

[X]

Re: france bans burka

Ok RichD, I see I have failed.

maybe you have a valid point, but mi just possibly not educated enuff to see it..

Your reasoning may be flawed , but mi respecks fi di man still high, you walk good..
(mi have an assignment fi turn in and ja.com a kill mi time) ..

[X]

Re: france bans burka

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RichD</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pleXxed</div><div class="ubbcode-body">the simple fact is that being nude is against at least one law.. that is &quot;indecent exposure&quot;..
<span style="font-weight: bold">While you claim there is no law against it</span>, try walking out your door nude and see how fast you a-zz would be grass..

</div></div> where did i make that claim? </div></div>

You a moderator suh you can change it up. respecks for letting your words remain the same.. (<span style="font-style: italic">just to be safe doe, i may have screenshot the post </span>)

<span style="color: #000099">Quote from RichD Post #1222961 - Today at 01:38 PM </span><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <span style="color: #000099">personally i think nudist should be able to walk around nude if they feel like it..i don't see any need pass a law banning it</span></div></div>

[RichD]

Re: france bans burka

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pleXxed</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RichD</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pleXxed</div><div class="ubbcode-body">the simple fact is that being nude is against at least one law.. that is &quot;indecent exposure&quot;..
<span style="font-weight: bold">While you claim there is no law against it</span>, try walking out your door nude and see how fast you a-zz would be grass..

</div></div> where did i make that claim? </div></div>

You a moderator suh you can change it up. respecks for letting your words remain the same.. (<span style="font-style: italic">just to be safe doe, i may have screenshot the post </span>)

Quote from RichD Post #1222961 - Today at 01:38 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <span style="color: #000099">personally i think nudist should be able to walk around nude if they feel like it..i don't see any need pass a law banning it</span></div></div>
</div></div>


i guess i did not clearly say what i mean ..i did not mean that there is no law..i mean that there is no need for the law

[RichD]

Re: france bans burka


'People think you're oppressed' if you wear the niqab
Published On Sun Oct 25 2009EmailPrint
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University of Toronto student Maryam Rana, 21, born and raised here, donned the niqab two years ago for religious reasons, over her family's objections.

The bright green Calvin Klein scarf wrapped neatly around Maryam Rana's head comes as a bit of a surprise. So do the red flats peeking out from under her black skirt, as she takes a mid-morning walk around her Mississauga neighbourhood.

Rana, clearly, has a sense of style. She is also wearing a black cloth over much of her face.

This is the niqab, Canada's most controversial article of clothing.

Rana, a petite 21-year-old with bright brown eyes, has worn it for two years. The neighbours still stare.

Rana seems unfazed by their glances, though she says she knows what their looks imply. &quot;People think you are oppressed, that you aren't from here and that you are forced to wear it,&quot; she said.

Rana confounds those assumptions. She was born in Toronto, attended a local public high school, studies at the University of Toronto and, two years ago, chose to wear the niqab despite the wishes of her family.

Over time, she has managed to win over her loved ones. But for her and other local Muslim women who wear the niqab, overcoming negative public perceptions is significantly more difficult.

In part, this is because of the ongoing public debate that plays out in courtrooms, political arenas and in the press every few months, questioning the presence of a small – some say growing – number of Muslim women who cover their faces in accordance with their devout Islamic beliefs.

It is a practice many Canadians – including some Muslims – consider to be oppressive, offensive and an outright rejection of the West.

&quot;In Canada we recognize the equality of men and women. The burqa marginalizes women,&quot; said Salma Siddiqui, a member of the outspoken and secular Muslim Canadian Congress.

In Canada, few women wear the burqa, a gownlike garment that covers the head and has mesh in front of the eyes.

This month, the MCC called upon the government to ban the niqab and burqa in Canada.

France, Italy and the Netherlands are seriously considering such legislation. Yet in Canada, some academics, activists and Muslims say such a move is perhaps more un-Canadian than the niqab itself.

&quot;There are many people who don't agree or like the niqab,&quot; said Alia Hogben, executive director of the Canadian Council of Muslim Women.

&quot;But they are totally opposed to the idea that the government should have a say in how women dress,&quot; she said.


THE MCC'S call comes on the heels of an incident this month in which the head of the Al-Azhar University in Egypt, whom many consider to be Sunni Islam's foremost spiritual authority, asked a young woman to remove her niqab in her all-girls classroom when she stood up to ask him a question. According to media reports, he then told her the niqab was a cultural practice not founded in Islam.

The comments of the university's Sheikh Mohammed Tantawi quickly reverberated around the world. His opinions sparked intense debate within the community about the religious basis for the niqab and its place in modern society.

Many local scholars adopt the stance that the niqab has a religious basis, but is not compulsory for women.

Others discourage women from wearing it in Canada altogether, for practical reasons.

But Tantawi's comments especially strengthened the stance of progressive Muslim groups who say the niqab is a cultural practice and a symbol of more conservative Islam.

But in Canada, the debate is not merely about religion. At its core it is about the fight to protect two fundamental Canadian values: gender equality and freedom of religion.

The Charter of Rights and Freedoms espouses both equality rights and fundamental freedoms, which include the right to practice one's religion as one sees fit.

The MCC says the Charter of Rights and Freedoms shouldn't apply in the case of the niqab, because it isn't a requirement of the faith.

&quot;People have always argued that wearing the niqab is a religious practice, but here is this sheikh clearly saying it isn't in the religion,&quot; said Siddiqui. &quot;Now they can't use that religious argument to defend a cultural practice that is harmful to women.&quot;

But academics say the law cannot be used to solve religious debates within communities. Nor should the courts wade into what exactly a religion prescribes, or how people choose to practise.

&quot;The niqab may not be a religious requirement for you, but that is not really relevant in this debate,&quot; said Natasha Bakht, a law professor at the University of Ottawa. &quot;The fact of the matter is that the Supreme Court of Canada has said that what is a religious requirement is a personal belief and as long as it is sincerely held, that is all that matters.

&quot;Can you imagine what would happen if the courts had a debate between imams as to what the religious requirements were?&quot; Bakht said. &quot;That would be a real problem.&quot;


BUT AS WOMEN CONTINUE to don the niqab, the question remains: In a society where women have all the freedoms in the world, why are they making such a choice?

Some say they see it as a path to piety, a physical manifestation of their faith, and a symbol of their devotion to God. Others consider it a rejection of the West's obsession with beauty and a way to maintain their faith in a world where women's bodies are overly sexualized.

Those who choose to wear it are not shy to say why they do. But they also acknowledge that there are women forced to wear the niqab by family members or strict religious and cultural interpretations.

&quot;For me, it comes down to my relationship to God, and my commitment to my faith,&quot; said Rana. &quot;Nothing else matters to me at this moment in my life.&quot;


TINA ASEFFA decided to don the niqab a few months ago, knowing it was her choice to make.

&quot;It is something I feel is Canadian, because the Charter tells me that I am able to express my religion in the way that I see fit,&quot; the single mother said.

It hasn't been easy. There have been taunts, insults, and &quot;a lot of hate&quot; along the way, she said.

&quot;People always say, 'Go back to where you came from,' &quot; she said, her voice cracking. &quot;It's hurtful. I am from here.&quot;

For the time being, Aseffa has little to worry about. The government hasn't responded or even acknowledged the MCC's call for an outright ban on the niqab.

But Ottawa's feelings on the niqab are no secret. In 2007, the government pushed for legislation that would have made veiled women show their faces when voting.

&quot;If there are security or identity issues, we have always lifted our veil temporarily. We have no problem with it,&quot; Aseffa said.

Like other women who wear the niqab, Aseffa says she is tired of being sidelined and ignored in debates about her.

&quot;Our voices are not heard. If there are women who are marginalized and oppressed, they should be talked to and helped, not further isolated,&quot; she said.

Such sentiments have led to the organization of the first rally for veiled women at Queen's Park on Nov. 6.

The rally has been spearheaded by Cheryfa MacAulay Jamal, the outspoken wife of former terror suspect Qayyum Abdul Jamal, accused of being a Toronto 18 member before charges were stayed against him in 2008.

Aseffa, still deciding whether she will attend, said the rally will be a peaceful march to &quot;remind people that we are here.&quot;

&quot;Right now, we are the foreign guys in Canada,&quot; she said. &quot;But really, we are just as Canadian as anyone else. My daughter plays hockey. My neighbours borrow eggs from me.

&quot;No matter what people say, this is where we belong.&quot;

[Blackstar*]

Re: france bans burka

You still hanging in there, RichD. I admire your perseverance.

[X]

Re: france bans burka

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BlackStar</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You still hanging in there, RichD. I admire your perseverance. </div></div>
ditto that blackstar
RichD

You bring this tune to mind ..
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