Support For Obama: Bad For USA

[johnnycakes]

Re: Support For Obama: Bad For USA

"yes, richd. jc believing that he's the only holder of truth, and that dissenting opinion must mean ignorance is one sad revelation."


MGee,
Feel free to point out any serious errors of fact in either what I post or at the two websites I recommended.

I love a good argument and invite them. Sometimes I have to beg for an argument here because what I post cannot be debated.

I don't post conspiracy theories nor any other foolishness that others bring to these fora. Mind you, they have their place here because of the wide range of topics and I have no problem with those who choose to talk about.

But if you present me with foolishness that concerns the subjects of political, media, organized religion, women's rights and a few other subjects about which I am relatively well informed, you can always expect me to respond to it with all the facts I have at hand.

I really don't mind criticism from any quarter but I do prefer that the criticism come with some specific pointing at errors of fact that I have made rather than blanket condemnations not backed up by anything solid.

Yes, I am often a nasty piece of work to those who go against me.
I am not the sort to return sweet for bitter .

The best thing you and others who don't like what I say or how I say it is to prove me wrong.

I invite, no, I beg you to try.



eri e

[Wendy]

Re: Support For Obama: Bad For USA

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">to be confident in your position is one thing..nuttin wrong wid that .. but what gets me is the kind of undertone that permeates his every post ..the air of condescending superiority that he has taken the time to come and share some of his superior wisdom with us poor uneducated and misseducated Black people ..that none of us can match wits with him.
and because he has a few black friends he is insulated form any charges of racism and can drop words under the guise of being cleaver.

I see thru him long time .</div></div>

AAAAMMMMEEEENNNN!!!
Yuh cyaan even have a lighthearted post widout im come wid dat condescending tone. I doan know how unu engage in a debate wid im.
I get to the point weh mi cyaan badda read im sinting dem noh more

[johnnycakes]

Re: Support For Obama: Bad For USA

&quot;so you think you are talking to this mixed group in 2011 on the same level as Malcom X was talking to his black brothers and sisters in the context of a post civil rights 1964 America ?&quot;


RichD,
In 1964 people bought into the thought that Johnson was the lesser of two evils and this included the black audience to whom Malik spoke.
Malik knew as few others knew that the elections are a sham.
This is what he taught or rather TRIED to teach.
Evidently no one listened.

Obama is no different from Johnson except for skin color.

So yes, I have every right to address the present electorate as he did the electorate in 1964 because as he would have most likely put it, the STUPIDITY and IGNORANCE of the current electorate is not only unchanged from 1964 but the black electorate has now forgotten the truths that brother Malik spoke and IMO they have backslid in their political and social consciousness to the point that they are unable to see through Obama..
This is something brother Malik would certainly have pointed out and which I'm sure you'd like only slightly better coming from him than from me.

You should not think of me as your enemy any more than you would think brother Malik did not have your interests, ALL our interests at heart.

We all deserve a better life, a better country and electing another one of THEM just isn't the way to do it.
It is the way to put the changes off and keep things as they are in Amerikkka.


WWMD?

[mountaingal]

Re: Support For Obama: Bad For USA

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: johnnycakes</div><div class="ubbcode-body">&quot;yes, richd. jc believing that he's the only holder of truth, and that dissenting opinion must mean ignorance is one sad revelation.&quot;


MGee,
Feel free to point out any <span style="font-weight: bold">serious </span>errors of fact </div></div>

and this is where i stop, because u have built in the mechanism for dismissing any counterargument by holding to urself the prerogative to judge it serious or not.

u run mi dung the other day about FGM, trying to imply that i had less knowledge than u about it, and even when i presented to u information about its role in African cultures via the autobiography of nyerere, u chose to disbelieve me and hold to your premise that FGM is strictly a muslim construct.

u are in love with what u think is ur own erudition, that does not make for open and respectful discussion.

[johnnycakes]

Re: Support For Obama: Bad For USA

&quot;To be confident in your position is one thing..nuttin wrong wid that .. but what gets me is the kind of undertone that permeates his every post ..the air of condescending superiority that he has taken the time to come and share some of his superior wisdom with us poor uneducated and misseducated Black people ..that none of us can match wits with him.
and because he has a few black friends he is insulated form any charges of racism and can drop words under the guise of being cleaver.

I see thru him long time .&quot;



RichD,

Your post speaks of me in the third person. It would be proper to direct your comments to me rather than speak of me as if I weren't here.
it is akin to being in a room with three people and saying to one:&quot; Isn't he a twit' or some such about the third party there.
We all can talk about BlakkGiant in the third person because he's absent.

I'm a big boy. I not only can take your criticisms, I invite them because I am that sure of my positions on whatever I choose to debate. (all: roll eyes at this point and kiss teeth).

Pperhaps you haven't read any of my very long back and forths with Lonrwolf (a very white person) in the past in which i also &quot;talk down &quot; to him by presenting factual information, often in a snide and admittedly unpleasant way.

I am an equal opportunity debater on politics, religion, and a few other topics. Come at me with nonsense and I'll hand you your head whether white, black or green.

As for being a racist: give it a rest will you. The old saying is that&quot; Patriotism is the last refuge of scoundrels&quot; here it seems to turn to calls of racism when what is said by someone whose skin is white says something both unpopular and to which there is no valid or truthful response possible.
My standard defense against racism is that if I am indeed a racist then I am a most unusual one for having bought, with BLACK Jamaican friends, land in Jamaica , building a house and spending all of the vacation time in the past 15 years or so in Jamaica at my house there in an all black poor and rural neighborhood.
By the predominant logic here I will now being accused of spending all that time with people I dislike just to refresh my dislike.

Is there a nicer way to say that the preponderance of the people in the United States, in Jamaica don't know much about the world nor about politics but rather dwell in the lala-land of blissful ignorance as reflected in their beliefs in things untrue, not factual such as God and Obama?


&quot;....... drop words under the guise of being cleaver&quot;

I'll try to use smaller, less accurate words if you'd like but wouldn't that be talking down to everyone?.

[johnnycakes]

Re: Support For Obama: Bad For USA

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MGee</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: johnnycakes</div><div class="ubbcode-body">&quot;yes, richd. jc believing that he's the only holder of truth, and that dissenting opinion must mean ignorance is one sad revelation.&quot;


MGee,
Feel free to point out any <span style="font-weight: bold">serious </span>errors of fact </div></div>

and this is where i stop, because u have built in the mechanism for dismissing any counterargument by holding to urself the prerogative to judge it serious or not.

u run mi dung the other day about FGM, trying to imply that i had less knowledge than u about it, and even when i presented to u information about its role in African cultures via the autobiography of nyerere, u chose to disbelieve me and hold to your premise that FGM is strictly a muslim construct.

u are in love with what u think is ur own erudition, that does not make for open and respectful discussion.
</div></div>


MGee,

FGM is literally an atrocious ritual. I would imagine we agree on that.
I also know that it is primarily cultural but also justified by Islamic law.
it is intended as suppression of female sexuality and is really just another form of male dominance.
It is primitive and barbaric.
We have no argument here.

I would say that women would be far more justified by practicing amputation of the penises (peotomies) of young boys because of the constant historical philandering of men and the millions upon millions of instances of rape than mutilating women to keep them from enjoying sex.
That's called blaming the victim.

[Gen]

Re: Support For Obama: Bad For USA

Exactly.


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RichD</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MGee</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RichD</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: johnnycakes</div><div class="ubbcode-body">For non-racist, intellectual and excoriating criticisms of Barak Obama's presidency anyone can go to:

http://www.zcommunications.org/znet

or

http://www.tomdispatch.com/

and everyone who either likes or dislikes the corporate (White) house slave who is the president and does not seek out these or similar sites with such valid criticisms should not try to justify him here because you're working with a serious handicap: that of not knowing what the hell you're talking about.
</div></div>



i just have to shake my head ..you are a nasty piece of work </div></div>
yes, richd. jc believing that he's the only holder of truth, and that dissenting opinion must mean ignorance is one sad revelation. </div></div>

to be confident in your position is one thing..nuttin wrong wid that .. but what gets me is the kind of undertone that permeates his every post ..the air of condescending superiority that he has taken the time to come and share some of his superior wisdom with us poor uneducated and misseducated Black people ..that none of us can match wits with him.
and because he has a few black friends he is insulated form any charges of racism and can drop words under the guise of being cleaver.

I see thru him long time . </div></div>

[Gen]

Re: Support For Obama: Bad For USA

Which is why the other day him use a word and then point out that everybody on the board haffi draw fi dem dictionary now

Comedy supreme mi a tell yuh

[jah_yout]

Re: Support For Obama: Bad For USA

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">what does a slave trade in africa have to do with obama in america? </div></div>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: lw</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Why don't you tell me? You were the one that posted that QUOTE:
<span style="font-weight: bold">racism is a legacy of the usa as dyed in the wool as old glory and it did not disappear in 3 years after being the law of the land for 400 years...</span>

You have to be implying the legacy of slavery that existed in the US.
Is this not where your 400 years statement comes from?</div></div>


of course it is...the usa practiced official slavery &amp; then official racial discrimination from its inception until legislation was passed in the 1960's...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">obviously your implication is that &quot;africans are racist against africans worse than any racism that exists in america so stop claiming there is racism&quot;... </div></div>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: lw</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Nope, not at all. I'm simply stating a fact that all roads as it pertains to a topic about racism in the US somehow are rooted back to slavery. The US almost ceased to exist to rid itself of slavery. Another fact is that slavery still exist in a continent that sold slaves to the US 400 years ago. Why does slavery that ended after the US civil war get more talk than people that are being enslaved today?</div></div>

i guess you are focusing on american slavery itself &amp; trying to imply that the trans-atlantic slave trade was the fault of africans (europeans just accidentally bumped into some africans offering slaves for sale) &amp; that the official policy of the us gov't of racism somehow magically ended with the <span style="font-weight: bold">1863</span> emancipation proclamation...you conveniently forget jim crow &amp; segregation up to the <span style="font-weight: bold">1960's</span>...you also imply that somehow slavery in africa today is comparable to slavery as practiced by the usa up to the 19th century- which is of course total nonsense...why should we talk about slavery in africa when we are discussing the united states...
changing the subject?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'd like just one person to prove that everything that goes on with Obama is based on racism. Post some facts rather than opinion. This is simply politics. Obama is being criticized because the country is headed down the toilet and he is not making any progress to stop it. A white man would be getting the same criticism.</div></div>

personally i have never said that <span style="font-style: italic">everything</span> that goes on with obama is about racism...i simply acknowledge that <span style="font-style: italic">much</span> of what goes on <span style="font-style: italic">is</span> about racism--- far more so than any other president

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Do you need me to post numbers on unemployment, involvemnt in three wars. gas prices etc.? </div></div>

political enmity is understandable...
but it is more than obvious that some of the enmity is more than political; &amp; this is coming from a guy who is no obamabot or even voted...
but you would have to actually have an open mind to see it;

[mountaingal]

Re: Support For Obama: Bad For USA

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gen</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Which is why the other day him use a word and then point out that everybody on the board haffi draw fi dem dictionary now
</div></div>
o yea. the zaftig episode. i thank tim gunn for defining that word for me.

[RichD]

Re: Support For Obama: Bad For USA

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: johnnycakes</div><div class="ubbcode-body">&quot;
As for being a racist: give it a rest will you. The old saying is that&quot; Patriotism is the last refuge of scoundrels&quot; here it seems to turn to calls of racism when what is said by someone whose skin is white says something both unpopular and to which there is no valid or truthful response possible.


</div></div> what would brother Malik have called you?

[johnnycakes]

Re: Support For Obama: Bad For USA

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RichD</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: johnnycakes</div><div class="ubbcode-body">&quot;
As for being a racist: give it a rest will you. The old saying is that&quot; Patriotism is the last refuge of scoundrels&quot; here it seems to turn to calls of racism when what is said by someone whose skin is white says something both unpopular and to which there is no valid or truthful response possible.


</div></div> what would brother Malik have called you? </div></div>


RichD,

From what I know or have read of brother Malik, when he was street rough Malcolm Little he would have called me a honky or whitey.

When he became Malcolm X , probably &quot;white devil&quot; or he would have just as likely ignored me totally.

After he made his hajj and became el hajj Malik el Shabazz and realized that it is not the color of one' skin that makes you a &quot;devils&quot; but rather what each does as an individual black, white, brown,whatever he would have called me an ally in his struggle to open some closed eyes and minds.

We apparently share the same tendencies to call it as we see it.

Do you think he cared what those stupid and ignorant people he addressed AS stupid and ignorant thought of him?

Was he correct or was he not in his assessment of blacks (and all for that matter) who choose to vote for the lesser of two evils, who buy into the system of the oppressor ?

What would he say about Obama? About Condoleezza Rice, Clarence Thomas, Colin Powell OR those who support those sellouts ?

Would you follow Malik or WeNdY?

[johnnycakes]

Re: Support For Obama: Bad For USA

RichD,

You didn't answer my question.

I always answer yours.

[johnnycakes]

Re: Support For Obama: Bad For USA

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MGee</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gen</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Which is why the other day him use a word and then point out that everybody on the board haffi draw fi dem dictionary now
</div></div>
o yea. the zaftig episode. i thank tim gunn for defining that word for me. </div></div>


Yes it's true I used a Yiddish word common in New York but a bit too foreign to jokingly describe Michele Obama.

I'm almost as bad as board favorite BlakkGiant with his use of really obscure Swahili and Yoruba terms for white people after the term honky went out of style.

[lonewolf]

Re: Support For Obama: Bad For USA

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
i guess you are focusing on american slavery itself &amp; trying to imply that the trans-atlantic slave trade was the fault of africans (europeans just accidentally bumped into some africans offering slaves for sale) </div></div>

No, I'm not laying blame on anyone in particular. I believe that there is plenty of blame to go around with everyone that was involved in the slave trade. My point is that slavery did not begin with the USA, nor has it ended with the USA.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">&amp; that the official policy of the us gov't of racism somehow magically ended with the 1863 emancipation </div></div>

Of course not. I'm not saying we live in a perfect world, on the contrary. I'm a very cynical person, but there has been much progress since 1863. The proof being that Barrack Obama is sitting in the whitehouse. Please, name another country with a predominately white population where this would be possible?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">you also imply that somehow slavery in africa today is comparable to slavery as practiced by the usa up to the 19th century- which is of course total nonsense...
</div></div>

Slavery is slavery. Are you saying one form is less cruel than another. I am saying that slavery that exist now is just as cruel. <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style="font-weight: bold">The boys told how they were tied on the backs of horses and taken to the north, where they ended up working on adjacent farms whose owners were relatives. &quot;I was given to a very bad man,&quot; Garang told the reporters. &quot;He always made me do difficult things like carrying away hot ashes. Sometimes I was beaten.&quot; Akok said his main job was cleaning up cow dung. The bruised and malnourished boys claimed they lived on sour milk and table scraps and were tied or locked up at night</span> </div></div>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">why should we talk about slavery in africa when we are discussing the united states...
changing the subject? </div></div>

Why not? You referenced slavery I simply expanded on the topic. If you did not bring it up, this conversation would not exist.

If this offends you, accept my apology. The story below was part of a two part series that was printed in the Baltimore Sun. I was shocked that slavery could still exist.
I've also watched and listened to interviews with Dr. Gregory Kane who was part of this investigation.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <span style="font-weight: bold">IN RANSOMING A PAIR OF BOYS, TWO U.S. REPORTERS PROVE THAT A MARKET FOR HUMANS THRIVES IN SUDAN</span>

The transaction was quick and uncomplicated. There wasn't even any haggling over the price. In the remote southern Sudanese town of Manyiel, a Muslim trader eagerly accepted a stack of currency worth about $1,000. Moments later, he delivered the mercha ndise--a pair of slaves.

The story is not out of some 19th century novel. It is from the account last week by two Baltimore Sun journalists, Gilbert Lewthwaite and Gregory Kane, of their trip in April to the Sudan to see if they could buy a slave. The enslavement of human beings and the buying and selling of them are said to be common in the Sudan. But always the charges are denied by the government. The Sun's project got a boost when Minister Louis Farrakhan, head of the U.S.-based Nation of Islam, defended his own controvers ial trip to the Sudan by challenging reporters to find evidence that slavery exists in the largest and poorest nation in Africa. &quot;Where is the proof?&quot; Farrakhan demanded in a speech to the National Press Club in March.

The Sun editors proposed to get the proof, but the reporters had misgivings at first about going through with the actual purchase of a slave. The plan, of course, was to free anyone who was bought. But was it ethical? In the articles he later wrote, Kane, who is black, pointed out that 19th century abolitionists bought freedom for thousands of slaves in the U.S. In the final analysis, says Sun foreign editor Jefferson Price, the decision was pragmatic. &quot;Rather than get the story from people who claimed that they had been treated as slaves,&quot; he says, &quot;we thought that if we actually made the purchase ourselves, <span style="font-weight: bold">it would present incontrovertible proof that the system did exist.&quot;</span>
</div></div>

http://www.time.com/time/international/1996/960701/sudan.html

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">personally i have never said that everything that goes on with obama is about racism...i simply acknowledge that much of what goes on is about racism--- far more so than any other president </div></div>

Why? Because he is black? If you have proof of this, please post as much. I will certainly listen to your arguement. I don't have any problem with the truth. I will admit as much if there is evidence, but the only evidence I see is that he is being treated in the same manner as other presidents. There are those that praise his decisions and there are those that crticize his decisions.....it comes with the territory.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">political enmity is understandable...
but it is more than obvious that some of the enmity is more than political; &amp; this is coming from a guy who is no obamabot or even voted...
but you would have to actually have an open mind to see it; </div></div>

Why didn't you vote? I voted, but I did not vote Democrat or Republican. I voted for Baldwin of the Constitution party. So, that said I am of an open mind.