Blood for Oil.....Again

[R_C]

Re: Blood for Oil.....Again

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Derek</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Sorry but I can't think of any reason why Mr Blum would be pro or anti Jamaica.</div></div>

I can't either. Especially since being &quot;pro or anti Jamaica&quot;, whatever that means, is not something that can be inferred from his writings. As best as I can tell, Mr. Blum's subject in the piece I referred to, was US intervention in Jamaica's affairs at a particular point in time.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Derek</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Can you give me a reason why Blum would be biased?</div></div>

This is not a serious question. Go do your own research about Mr. Blum and the meaning of the word bias.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: johnnycakes</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Anyone who disagrees with Blum's conclusions would think him biased</div></div>

jc, if you read my posts you will see that my issue is one of both balance and accuracy with regards to Blum's piece on Jamaica. My point was that if important information is either misstated or omitted, regardless of motive, one has to be careful about what we take away from the rest of what the author is saying. (Some people would say that by willfully omitting important information or misstating facts in a piece of writing, the author betrays a bias. I have no idea whether Blum willfully did this, but the net effect is the same, regardless of motive).

I cannot speak with authority about what he says took place in other locales around the world, though I will admit there is corroborating evidence that supports some of what he says. In regards to Jamaica, however, I have personal knowledge of facts that he has either misstated or omitted that would have given the reader a more holistic view of what took place there in the seventies.

This is about as clear as I can make the points I originally made. And I will continue to limit myself to what I actually said.

[Derek]

Re: Blood for Oil.....Again

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RichD</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: johnnycakes</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: R_C</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Indeed, agents from multiple agencies and institutions of the US government were also there in numbers not heretofore seen at that time. But they weren't the only ones. And that Blum would mischaracterize the nature and extent of the Cuban presence when it was at its peak in Jamaica should put those who read his take on what happened during that period of time on guard.

</div></div>


R_C,

Can you recommend a particular book website or article that covers Cuban troops in Jamaica from a perspective you think is fair. ?

I'd like to get a look at the difference in how Blum has presented the history and what you have that has you casting doubt on Blum's version.

Thanks </div></div>

yuh nuh hear di man sey he was there </div></div>


R_C is a man?

[RichD]

Re: Blood for Oil.....Again

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Derek</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RichD</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: johnnycakes</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: R_C</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Indeed, agents from multiple agencies and institutions of the US government were also there in numbers not heretofore seen at that time. But they weren't the only ones. And that Blum would mischaracterize the nature and extent of the Cuban presence when it was at its peak in Jamaica should put those who read his take on what happened during that period of time on guard.

</div></div>


R_C,

Can you recommend a particular book website or article that covers Cuban troops in Jamaica from a perspective you think is fair. ?

I'd like to get a look at the difference in how Blum has presented the history and what you have that has you casting doubt on Blum's version.

Thanks </div></div>

yuh nuh hear di man sey he was there </div></div>


R_C is a man? </div></div>

[johnnycakes]

Re: Blood for Oil.....Again

R-C,

I did about two hours of web search for stories on Cuban military in Jamaica and found just one or two references to that presence.

There seems to be very little info.

Since you say you have first hand knowledge of that military presence I would ask several questions:


1) IYO What was their purpose ?
Other than training Jamaican troops to defend against a U.S invasion which would be sure to follow any failure of the CIA destabilization program ongoing against Manley's government what need would there be for them since Manley as head of state commanded the armed forces and police.

Any Cuban presence sufficient to defeat a Jamaican military/police popular uprising in Jamaica would have to be enormous and that fact would be all over the anti-Cuban corporate media/Gleaner.

2) In the case of Grenada, the U.S and the other anti-Cuban media said that all the people who worked on the airport construction there were military and those sources were dead wrong/lying as subsequent events proved.
The Cubans supplied the name professions and ages of all their people in Grenada and in the end these were the data that even the United States accepted as factual.
And there were 50 Cuban military advisors just as the Cubans claimed from the beginning.

As in Grenada, press reports had the Cubans smuggling guns into Jamaica for subversive purposes which the Cubans totally ridiculed and rightly so because after that invasion the Cuban weapons caches turned out to be regular arms that the Grenadans had stored many of which were of WWI vintage.

Since it is impossible to prove that Cuban troops DID NOT exist in Jamaica it falls on you to prove that they were there and for what purpose.

[R_C]

Re: Blood for Oil.....Again

The Cuban military personnel that were on the island participated in the ongoing training of the Brigadistas who had been to Cuba.

Their presence there was also prompted by two bombings that took place in 1974, one at the Cuban embassy and another at Palisadoes when a suitcase with a bomb in it exploded before it could be placed on a Cubana aircraft. The Cuban exile group (Frank Castro's) Cuban National Liberation Front and/or members of what would have become CORU (Coordination of United Revolutionary Organizations) may have been responsible for one or both incidents. But there is no proof of that either way that I am aware of.

Hundred of Cubans were out and about in Kingston and to a lesser extent in the rural areas in the seventies. Many were &quot;construction workers&quot; said to be there for the purpose of building schools. It was no “secret” that some were members of the Cuban military. Their numbers spiked, not surprisingly, immediately before Fidel’s first visit in 1977.

Finally, I have no doubt that they were also there to keep an eye on their counterparts from the US DOD and CIA.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: johnnycakes</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Since it is impossible to prove that Cuban troops DID NOT exist in Jamaica it falls on you to prove that they were there and for what purpose. </div></div>

Good luck with that. I don’t care whether you believe what I am saying or not.

[johnnycakes]

Re: Blood for Oil.....Again

&quot;Many were &quot;construction workers&quot; said to be there for the purpose of building schools. It was no “secret” that some were members of the Cuban military.&quot;


R_C,

Inasmuch as that some accusation was made about the Grenada construction workers by Reagan's administration and the anti-Cuiban media and that turned out to be a lie, I have no reason to believe that if the Cubans said that their people were construction people they were construction people.

Going back to the intense Cold War years you will find that anytime the Cubans /Fidel made a claim, it was true and if it contradicted the anti-Cuban governments and media those anti-Cuban sources were almost invariably not telling the truth for obvious reasons.


As for Cubans with nefarious plans being in Jamaica, this is also from Blum's &quot;Killing Hope&quot; chapter on Jamaica.

&quot;Some of the CIA's traveling army of Cuban exiles arrived on the scene. One was Luis Posada Carriles, a former officer in Cuban dictator Batista's secret police, now a CIA-trained explosives expert who was implicated in the mid-air bombing of a Cubana Airlines plane in 1976 which killed 73 people. Posada was reportedly spotted at the scene of more than one bombing in Jamaica.&quot;