how is the diaspora seen..dem tink peeps here

[johnnycakes]

Re: how is the diaspora seen..dem tink peeps here

jah_yout, mangoskin,

While it is true that prostitution has reemerged in Cuba, most sources agree that it is limited to the tourist enclaves and in no way resembles the pre-revolutionary days when Cuba was "America's whorehouse".

Fidel was brought to task when, in response to media attention on this return of prostitution to Cuba he said something like "At least we have the HEALTHIEST prostitutes in the world." (What is the HIV and STD infection rate amongst prostitutes in Jamaica and elsewhere?)

I'll repeat this as often as it seems pertinent that ONCE and IF the U.S economic war against Cuba has ended the economic hardships that drive people to prostitution will enable those in the trade to do better in honorable and not degrading occupations as they did after the revolution and before the tourist enclaves came into being.

[WitchyOoman]

Re: how is the diaspora seen..dem tink peeps here

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: johnnycakes</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I think that the big mistake people make is comparing Cuba to much richer First World nations rather than other Third World countries.

No beggars in the streets. No homeless people sleeping in the streets, the lowest crime rate in the hemisphere ( you can walk through Havana in the middle of the night SAFELY). They may not have much money but they are guaranteed good health care and a good education.

&lt;snip&gt;

Sure those of us doing well in New York and elsewhere in the rich industrialized countries wouldn't care for life in Cuba but an African mother with her baby dying from hunger and/or disease would think it heaven.


Absent the U.S war on Cuba many more would think so as well.


Perspective is everything. </div></div>
Actually, for the first time in my memory, I agree with johnnycakes here ^.

Why on earth would one compare Cuba to a first-world country, rather than a hird-world country?
We don't compare other third-world countries to first-world countries; we usually compare third-world to other third-world countries. What's so different about doing that with Cuba??? Oh right - SNAP! - because if we compared Cuba to other third-world countries, Cuba would be doing fairly well, wouldn't it, now?

What I don't know (and I admit to not knowing this) is whether or not education or medical care, or other necessities, are, in fact, as good as johnnycakes says. My knowledge of Cuba and Cubans is limited.

I know exactly one Cuban and her family; she is a Habana cop, and I've visited her a few times when I was in/from Jamaica. I met Ines in Jamaica. I know that her family - 11 of them, sometimes 12 or 13 - live in three rooms. Beds are set up in the kitchen each night, and taken out of the kitchen during the day. To me - an American - that's one helluva a way to live! And they don't get a lot of variety of foods... although none of them starves, and they mostly eat reasonably healthily. (more healthily than I eat at home, that's for sure!) When I stay in Habana, I stay with her family, because they insist upon that. I'd rather live that way for a week or two than insult them because they're very sweet people. But it always bothers me a lot (my conscience nags me badly) when I take the bed that they offer me... only Ines and I sleep in that bed; but when I'm not there, I know that more sleep in the big bad together. At least two sisters share it with her, normally. Those of her generation go sleep at other people's houses when I visit. That bothers me, but they won't hear of me staying in a hotel. The only things they'll 'take' from me are the gifts I bring form the USA with me, and food that I buy for meals. I used to bring American-style gifts (jewelry, fancy clothing, etc), but I now bring more practical gifts (toiletries, work clothes, shoes, OTC meds, etc), and I still bring down books. They are about as insatiable readers as I am, and they like the English books... mostly novels and fiction.

I do feel safe enough on Habana's streets - even at night. But I always pray to God not to get sick or injured there. I've never had anything to do with the CUban medical care system, other than to go with her great-gands and her grands to a clinic for regular check-ups... y'know, blood pressure, physical, etc. I've never seen medical equipment that's newer than 25 or 30 years - or older. Food surely is not so expensive as it is in, say, Jamaica... but it's expensive enough that they do struggle to buy it. For me, an American used to NEastern NYC-area American prices, it's not so bad. And it's much fresher than I usually get at home, too.

Actually, bearing in mind that I haven't been to Jamaica for several years now -- if I had a bit more privacy (as in my own bedroom) like I get in JA, I'd like visiting Cuba as much - if not more - than JA. But I always worry about medical emergencies cropping up. Also, Ines is now in Germany, and I''d feel very odd visiting her family without her presence, not to mention that her English is better than that of any of the rest of her family, and I speak very little Spanish.

Does anyone know for sure if the medical care and/or education is good in Cuba?

I ask about education only because the people I encounter in Habana speak mostly pidgeon English - not good standard English; and the same is true of Russian. (I've tried switching to Russian when people say that they learned Russian in school - and they speak only rudimentary or pidgeon Russian, as well.) BUT, in other areas besides language, the Cubans appear to be fairly well educated. As in Jamaica, the Cubans understand world politics far better than do, say, Americans; they put us to shame and make us look ignorant as hell!

[Tuff Gong]

Re: how is the diaspora seen..dem tink peeps here

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jah_yout</div><div class="ubbcode-body">[jobs will not save jamaica or anywhere else for that matter..</div></div>

Are you serious?
Do you work?

[jah_yout]

Re: how is the diaspora seen..dem tink peeps here

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tuff Gong</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jah_yout</div><div class="ubbcode-body">[jobs will not save jamaica or anywhere else for that matter..</div></div>

Are you serious?
Do you work? </div></div>


yes i work...
but work is not necessarily synonymous with<span style="font-style: italic"> jobs</span>...
work &amp; job can be two entirely different things...

over the course of human history there have been many different economic models...the post-industrial &quot;jobs&quot; model- the model of the modern state which has been dominant over the past 200 years &amp; since the slave system---- is dead.

unemployment is only increasing all over the world...the major powers have started to eat their own flesh &amp; must now resort to war in order to survive;

just look at all the chaos in europe itself

[Tuff Gong]

Re: how is the diaspora seen..dem tink peeps here

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jah_yout</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tuff Gong</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jah_yout</div><div class="ubbcode-body">[jobs will not save jamaica or anywhere else for that matter..</div></div>

Are you serious?
Do you work? </div></div>


yes i work...
but work is not necessarily synonymous with<span style="font-style: italic"> jobs</span>...
work &amp; job can be two entirely different things...

over the course of human history there have been many different economic models...the post-industrial &quot;jobs&quot; model- the model of the modern state which has been dominant over the past 200 years &amp; since the slave system---- is dead.

unemployment is only increasing all over the world...the major powers have started to eat their own flesh &amp; must now resort to war in order to survive;

just look at all the chaos in europe itself </div></div>

I often wonder why the majority of us cannot endevour to just one time, one conversation stay on point?

It seems to I many of the upheavals taking place, is precisely due to the lack of jobs?
Greece, Egypt, Libya, etc.
However I was under the impression that you were saying in the Jamaican context, providing more jobs would not be a solution?
I just cannot imagine that this is so.

There have been a serious job problem in all sectors, in Jamaica for decades, so much so that 80% of tertiary students migrate just to find jobs. It would pretty straight forward that providing more jobs would be the key to keeping more Jamaicans at home?

[johnnycakes]

Re: how is the diaspora seen..dem tink peeps here

Capitalism specifically neo-liberal capitalism does not work in the Third World.

If there is an actual unemployment figure of around 20% and up to 50% in the inner cities of the richest country on Earth and if there is no recovery in sight for that economy, what chance does a small, heavily indebted country with minimal resources have of providing a chance at a decent life for all of its people ?

You have to start dealing with reality before you have any chance of making things better.

Start with understanding that neo-liberal capitalism ( what we have) just plain cannot and doers not work in the Third World.

The days when a poor small country could lift itself up are gone. The conditions have changed dramatically with globalization and the emergence of the rule by the rich and FOR the rich.

As it is with any addiction, you have to admit you have a problem with that addiction to something that can only do you harm before you can start to help yourself.

Denial is not just a big river in Africa.

[johnnycakes]

Re: how is the diaspora seen..dem tink peeps here

The journey of a thousand miles begins with the first step and in this case the first step is recognizing the problem.



At the moment we can’t realistically talk about challenging global capital, because the movements that might undertake such a task are far too scattered and atomized and focused on particular issues. But we can try to confront directly what global capital is doing right now and, on the basis of that, move on to further achievements. For example, it’s no big secret that in the past thirty years there has been enormous concentration of wealth in a very tiny part of the population, 1 percent or even one-tenth of 1 percent, and that has conferred extraordinary political power on a very tiny minority, primarily [those who control] financial capital, but also more broadly on the executive and managerial classes. At the same time, for the majority of the population, incomes have pretty much stagnated, working hours have increased, benefits have declined — they were never very good — and people are angry, hostile, and very upset. Many people distrust institutions, all of them; it’s a volatile period, and it’s a period which could move in a very dangerous direction — there are analogues, after all — but it could also provide opportunities to educate and organize and carry things forward. One may have a long-term goal of confronting global capital, but there have to be small steps along the way before you could even think of undertaking a challenge of that magnitude in a realistic way.

http://www.zcommunications.org/overcoming-despair-as-the-republicans-take-over-by-noam-chomsky

[Tuff Gong]

Re: how is the diaspora seen..dem tink peeps here

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: johnnycakes</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Capitalism specifically neo-liberal capitalism does not work in the Third World. </div></div> I think Capitalism is a resounding success. If it wasn't for the welfare to corrupt largely 3rdWorld and some 1stWorld Countries, many Jurisdictions would have gone bankrupt decades ago.

By the way do you work?
Do you also think jobs mean nothing?

[johnnycakes]

Re: how is the diaspora seen..dem tink peeps here

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tuff Gong</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: johnnycakes</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Capitalism specifically neo-liberal capitalism does not work in the Third World. </div></div> I think Capitalism is a resounding success. If it wasn't for the welfare to corrupt largely 3rdWorld and some 1stWorld Countries, many Jurisdictions would have gone bankrupt decades ago.

By the way do you work?
Do you also think jobs mean nothing? </div></div>


Tuff Gong,

Take off the rose colored glasses and see the ten million plus in the Third World who die E-V-E-R-Y Y-E-A-R from starvation and /or curable and treatable disease.

A couple of billion people on the planet struggle to survive on $1.00-$2.00 a day and the gap between the rich and poor is growing not shrinking.

Take off the dark glasses and see the worldwide capitalist recession which even the devotees of capitalism are saying will last for many years to come and which we communists think is the top of a very long slide into oblivion .

You also have to add to the global recession, the devastating effects that globalization, the race to the bottom of the wage scale has on both First and Third World economies.

The moving of jobs, factories to the lowest wage countries is not about to go away and is steadily increasing.

Do I work?
I run a craft business now that I'm retired. I worked for about 48 years in many areas hard dirty factory work for a few years, drove cab in Boston a couple of years, five years as a handyman, 21 years at Tufts University. I was out of work for a total of about 1-1/2 of those years.

As a communist there is nothing more important to me than the welfare of the working people. We believe that workers should be the ones to make work decisions from the bottom up; a workers democracy.

Capitalism, which you seem to love for some reason is an economic North Korea. You have to smile and kiss the bosses a$$ and do just what you're told to do, have no say in work conditions or remuneration and can be cast out penniless at the whim of the owners.

Anytime you think capitalism is just great, please do remember this picture:
I think about this child every day. It is what drives my hatred for the capitalism you admire. Imagine, if you can with your mindset, that this is your child.

http://www.ebaumsworld.com/pictures/view/427241/

[Tuff Gong]

Re: how is the diaspora seen..dem tink peeps here

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: johnnycakes</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Tuff Gong,

Take off the rose colored glasses and see the ten million plus in the Third World who die E-V-E-R-Y Y-E-A-R from starvation and /or curable and treatable disease.
</div></div>
They are not doing it right!
They are not Capitalist Countries. I alluded to this fact, but as usual you missed it.
The Capitalists is running welfare for Countries such as Jamaica and other which refuse to have good Governments.

[Tuff Gong]

Re: how is the diaspora seen..dem tink peeps here

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: johnnycakes</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
The moving of jobs, factories to the lowest wage countries is not about to go away and is steadily increasing. </div></div>

Nothing wrong with this at all, if it is done right.
The hope that as some jobs become unwantable in certain locals, others who still will, gets their bite of the cherry and the refuseniks move into the ranks of the idle rich or take jobs that have higher remuneration.

I have seen where folks on this very board say they would not take a menial job. So let other get it.
At least you seem to recognize, unlike the other numskull that <span style="font-weight: bold">JOBS</span> is important.

[Tuff Gong]

Re: how is the diaspora seen..dem tink peeps here

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: johnnycakes</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Take off the dark glasses and see the worldwide capitalist recession which even the devotees of capitalism are saying will last for many years to come and which we communists think is the top of a very long slide into oblivion .

You also have to add to the global recession, the devastating effects that globalization, the race to the bottom of the wage scale has on both First and Third World economies. </div></div>

Apparently you missed the conclusion in your own soliloquy. If you can say recession, there must have been growth, otherwise, there is nothing to recede from. Logical conclusions is always missed by the pedantic rant-o-tools of this world.

The USA has 15 years of record growth lasting into the fist two years of George Bush, till the smart ones decided to start idiotic wars and hand the country over to the Oligarchs. Capitalism has not failed. what has failed is the Laissez-Faire, freewheeling, Political and Business Oligarchy that the USA and some other Economies has slipped into.

Ponzi Schemes and favouritism are not part of the well run Capitalist Economy. Singapore is a shining example of how a country with a long running Capitalist Economy is able to weather the storm and grow despite the near collapse of the Worlds Economy.

Even Japan is a study in the success of Capitalism. Years of growth, good Governance and careful planning has enabled a battered country, like in the doldrums, yet remain viable.

Japan even more than Singapore, now that I think further into it is the real example of a success of the market economy, coupled with good governance. Contrast that with Haiti and/or Jamaica? One storm or decades of market failure and the only alternative is to borrow more money to shovel into the gaping hole.

[Tuff Gong]

Re: how is the diaspora seen..dem tink peeps here

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: johnnycakes</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Do I work?
I run a craft business now that I'm retired. I worked for about 48 years in many areas hard dirty factory work for a few years, drove cab in Boston a couple of years, five years as a handyman, 21 years at Tufts University. I was out of work for a total of about 1-1/2 of those years. </div></div>

LOL typical hypocrite your likkle craft business depends on the idle rich willing waste disposable income on none essentials like craft......Capitalism in action.
Even your previous jobs were largely dependent on persons willing to spend their inheritance on an ala mater or riding around aimlessly site seeing.

None of your jobs involved inventing anything, or building ...maybe handyman but I suspect that is a richman/ooman pet doing odd jobs, for grossly inflated remittances.....err the fruits of Capitalism!

[Tuff Gong]

Re: how is the diaspora seen..dem tink peeps here

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: johnnycakes</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Anytime you think capitalism is just great, please do remember this picture:
I think about this child every day. It is what drives my hatred for the capitalism you admire. Imagine, if you can with your mindset, that this is your child.

http://www.ebaumsworld.com/pictures/view/427241/ </div></div>

I concur the best way to make a point is to show the most outrageous examples. However you fail to establish, whether that child is from a jurisdiction with a stable Capitalist Economy, that has a history of good governance?

USA Capitalism can't (or shouldn't) be blamed for starving children in Singapore. Each Jurisdiction has to at least make an effort to cater to its population.
As for the starving child, it is likely that his suffering should his/her life be spared would be due to the effort of a Capitalist, not by a bruk pocket, run-mout sitting on a Bulletin Board badmouthing the Market Economy......

In other words .....a wise man once said .....<span style="font-family: 'Arial Black'">it takes cash to care</span>.....unquote!

[johnnycakes]

Re: how is the diaspora seen..dem tink peeps here

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tuff Gong</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: johnnycakes</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Tuff Gong,

Take off the rose colored glasses and see the ten million plus in the Third World who die E-V-E-R-Y Y-E-A-R from starvation and /or curable and treatable disease.
</div></div>
They are not doing it right!
They are not Capitalist Countries. I alluded to this fact, but as usual you missed it.
The Capitalists is running welfare for Countries such as Jamaica and other which refuse to have good Governments. </div></div>



WHO is not doing what right?.
The rich of the world are preying on the poor of the world.
The rich and the wealthy corporations are doing it just fine.

WELFARE for Jamaica?

What welfare?
They always take out more than they put into the poor countries.

Countries do not refuse to have good governments. The governments are owned and operated by the rich and powerful for the benefit of the rich and powerful.

In the so-called representative &quot;democracies&quot; the parties choose the candidates like Obama and Golding and they choose them to uphold the status quo which they do or they would never get nominated by the parties of the status quo; the rich.

When was the last time you or someone you know got what they wanted from their government officials instead of those with the money ?

You only get to vote for the people that the major parties put up for you to vote for and if you think that those people have anything in common with your interests as a working man, you haven't been paying attention..