how is the diaspora seen..dem tink peeps here

[Tuff Gong]

Re: how is the diaspora seen..dem tink peeps here

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: johnnycakes</div><div class="ubbcode-body">WHO is not doing what right?.
The rich of the world are preying on the poor of the world.
. </div></div>

I am pretty sure you would do almost anything to be numbered among the<span style="font-weight: bold"> rich-of-the-world</span>!

[johnnycakes]

Re: how is the diaspora seen..dem tink peeps here

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tuff Gong</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: johnnycakes</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
The moving of jobs, factories to the lowest wage countries is not about to go away and is steadily increasing. </div></div>

TG:
Nothing wrong with this at all, if it is done right.
The hope that as some jobs become unwantable in certain locals, others who still will, gets their bite of the cherry and the refuseniks move into the ranks of the idle rich or take jobs that have higher remuneration.

Response:
Except that the loss of the jobs overseas results in fewer and fewer jobs in the countries those jobs leave. There are no replacement jobs except those in menial or service sector jobs that do not pay a living wage.
&quot;Refuseniks&quot; who can't find a decent job hardly move into the ranks of the idle rich.
HELLO!
There are four people unemployed in the United States for EVERY available job.

If they took every s#it job there would still be many many millions of unemployed.

It is the same in Jamaica and most other capitalist countries.


TG:
I have seen where folks on this very board say they would not take a menial job. So let other get it.

Response:
Menial jobs are not the problem. Jobs that are demeaning and which do not pay a living wage is what is the problem. Again, there simply are not enough jobs left from the corporate exodus to low wage countries even if people choose to work for less than it takes to pay for their basic needs.


TG:

At least you seem to recognize, unlike the other numskull that <span style="font-weight: bold">JOBS</span> is important. </div></div>

Response:

Of course I know the value of work from which we derive all necessities for a decent life. Communists are all about the working people.

Capitalists, on the other hand value the right to become rich and the almighty dollar over the well being of humanity.

[Tuff Gong]

Re: how is the diaspora seen..dem tink peeps here

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: johnnycakes</div><div class="ubbcode-body">WHO is not doing what right?. </div></div>

Well I was talking about example Jamaica!
Now that you mentioned it I think the ROW is not doing it right either. They should stop intervening in moribund economies such a Jamaica, cut it loose and let fall to bottom.
Then maybe we will learn!

[Tuff Gong]

Re: how is the diaspora seen..dem tink peeps here

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: johnnycakes</div><div class="ubbcode-body">WELFARE for Jamaica?

What welfare?</div></div>

Millions of dollars of poor old ladies in the USA, EuroZone, Canada and elsewhere that is poured down the sinkhole called Jamaica!

[Tuff Gong]

Re: how is the diaspora seen..dem tink peeps here

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: johnnycakes</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Of course I know the value of work from which we derive all necessities for a decent life. Communists are all about the working people.

Capitalists, on the other hand value the right to become rich and the almighty dollar over the well being of humanity. </div></div>

LOL so all the craft vendors selling environment depleting, tie-dye shirts and harking deforestation carvings are Socialists/Communists eh?

[johnnycakes]

Re: how is the diaspora seen..dem tink peeps here

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tuff Gong</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: johnnycakes</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Take off the dark glasses and see the worldwide capitalist recession which even the devotees of capitalism are saying will last for many years to come and which we communists think is the top of a very long slide into oblivion .

You also have to add to the global recession, the devastating effects that globalization, the race to the bottom of the wage scale has on both First and Third World economies. </div></div>

Apparently you missed the conclusion in your own soliloquy. If you can say recession, there must have been growth, otherwise, there is nothing to recede from. Logical conclusions is always missed by the pedantic rant-o-tools of this world.

The USA has 15 years of record growth lasting into the fist two years of George Bush, till the smart ones decided to start idiotic wars and hand the country over to the Oligarchs. Capitalism has not failed. what has failed is the Laissez-Faire, freewheeling, Political and Business Oligarchy that the USA and some other Economies has slipped into.

Ponzi Schemes and favouritism are not part of the well run Capitalist Economy. Singapore is a shining example of how a country with a long running Capitalist Economy is able to weather the storm and grow despite the near collapse of the Worlds Economy.

Even Japan is a study in the success of Capitalism. Years of growth, good Governance and careful planning has enabled a battered country, like in the doldrums, yet remain viable.

Japan even more than Singapore, now that I think further into it is the real example of a success of the market economy, coupled with good governance. Contrast that with Haiti and/or Jamaica? One storm or decades of market failure and the only alternative is to borrow more money to shovel into the gaping hole. </div></div>


Tuff Gong,

Capitalism is prone to deep recessions. What we are experiencing this time is world wide and unemployment is not returning as it did in the recessions and depressions of the past. We are in terra incognita . There is nothing upon which to base a recovery .

This is due to a couple of new factors. First is the saturation of the markets . There are not enough customers for all the surplus being produced in the ever greater amounts with the entry of China and the other Asian countries that have industrialized .

Globalization has taken the jobs from countries like the United States .

Capitalism or whatever it is that it that we have has mutated. It has run out of expansion room. The corporations are preying on each other and laying off workers to economize and become more profitable/efficient.

You are looking at the few places like Singapore ( a small island nation) and Japan that are holding on by their fingernails while ignoring the big picture which is the collapse of world capitalist (whatever) economies.


As for there necessarily being growth before a collapse, remember that the tech boom was a big bubble that burst because it had expanded beyond all stability as did the real estate boom.

It's all a house of cards now.


Sure you can cite the few exceptions but worldwide and especially in the Third World it is a downhill slide into greater poverty and deprivation.


No it isn't capitalism but this is all reminiscent of graffiti in an East Bloc country after the demise of &quot;communism&quot;

Someone wrote on a wall when cutthroat capitalism replaced the corrupt socialist economy and things got worse than before for the workers:

&quot;Bring back communism&quot;

To which someone else responded (correctly)
&quot;We never had communism&quot;

To which came the response:

&quot;Well bring back whatever it was we had&quot;


Now it is &quot;capitalism&quot;

The graffiti now reads:

&quot;get rid of capitalism&quot;

&quot;We don't have capitalism&quot;

&quot;Okay , then get rid of whatever the hell it is that we have&quot;.,

[Tuff Gong]

Re: how is the diaspora seen..dem tink peeps here

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: johnnycakes</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Response:
Except that the loss of the jobs overseas results in fewer and fewer jobs in the countries those jobs leave. There are no replacement jobs except those in menial or service sector jobs that do not pay a living wage </div></div>

Again I live in a Mill and Tobacco State. Many of those factories and industries had long since morphed into purely, machine operating jobs. The owners diversified and went into politics, so to the Union Bosses but left the wage slaves in their embryonic stage. All failed to heed the warnings, as the factory died.

Often times when a factory moves overseas the operation died decades ago and what is left is the shell. The workers are conned into believing that their entry level job is for life, while the economy and cultural mores say different.

The Capitalist Economy cannot work without good governance, this is what separates it from Laissez-Faire.

[johnnycakes]

Re: how is the diaspora seen..dem tink peeps here

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tuff Gong</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: johnnycakes</div><div class="ubbcode-body">WHO is not doing what right?. </div></div>

Well I was talking about example Jamaica!
Now that you mentioned it I think the ROW is not doing it right either. They should stop intervening in moribund economies such a Jamaica, cut it loose and let fall to bottom.
Then maybe we will learn! </div></div>


Tuff Gong,

Jamaica is a small, heavily indebted country with limited resources, is not industrialized in any way, has no jobs for its college graduates making higher education a waste of time.

As far as the First World is concerned, Jamaica is where we can get cheap bauxite, great coffee, rum and a nice vacation. The First World could care less about the people of Jamaica UNLESS they get uppity and/or decide to try socialism.

Jamaica is and always has been on its own to sink or swim. Jamaica is no different from many other countries in this respect. Mostly black and with no oil.
Jamaica is of no importance unless (as I said) it starts to go socialist. Then they'll destroy it.

Jamaicans have shown that they will not learn from experience. They will go down with a whimper and not a bang.
They have bought into a losing system that has not and cannot work and they do not know how to let go of it.

It's akin to a woman in a marriage to a wife abuser who stays with him as he breaks her nose and batters her body.

[johnnycakes]

Re: how is the diaspora seen..dem tink peeps here

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tuff Gong</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: johnnycakes</div><div class="ubbcode-body">WELFARE for Jamaica?

What welfare?</div></div>

Millions of dollars of poor old ladies in the USA, EuroZone, Canada and elsewhere that is poured down the sinkhole called Jamaica! </div></div>


Tuff Gong,
I know that U.S foreign aid is practically non-existent. Who are these POOR old ladies that they have money to send to Jamaica or anywhere else for that matter?

[johnnycakes]

Re: how is the diaspora seen..dem tink peeps here

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tuff Gong</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: johnnycakes</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Of course I know the value of work from which we derive all necessities for a decent life. Communists are all about the working people.

Capitalists, on the other hand value the right to become rich and the almighty dollar over the well being of humanity. </div></div>

LOL so all the craft vendors selling environment depleting, tie-dye shirts and harking deforestation carvings are Socialists/Communists eh? </div></div>


Tuff Gong,

I work in stained glass , farmed wood, recycled cardboard and am environmentally conscious in what I do for craft and around my home.
As with many occupations and hobbies, there are environmentally conscious people and people who don't care a whit about how destructive they are as long as they make money.
Sometimes it's fishermen who dynamite the reefs to make their catch bigger that day and sacrifice their future. Sometimes its the owners of coal fired power plants who poison our lakes, rivers and the fish in them for the big bucks.

Communists (I) think about the long term.

[johnnycakes]

Re: how is the diaspora seen..dem tink peeps here


Again I live in a Mill and Tobacco State. Many of those factories and industries had l
The Capitalist Economy cannot work without good governance, this is what separates it from Laissez-Faire. [/quote]


TuffGong,

That might be true but the problem is that the big money people, the capitalists , the very wealthy OWN and operate the governments of our counties. It is with their money that the candidates win elections. The percentage of the people with the most money winning political races runs into the ninetieth percentiles

The countries are run for the benefit of the corporations and the wealthy who own and invest in them.

They have a lock on the whole of the countries.

if you fail or refuse to acknowledge this fact you cannot understand why things are as they are and why the problems we face are so intractable..

[johnnycakes]

Re: how is the diaspora seen..dem tink peeps here

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tuff Gong</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: johnnycakes</div><div class="ubbcode-body">WHO is not doing what right?.
The rich of the world are preying on the poor of the world.
. </div></div>

I am pretty sure you would do almost anything to be numbered among the<span style="font-weight: bold"> rich-of-the-world</span>! </div></div>


Tuff Gong,

I wouldn't at all mind being wealthy but I have enough to live on comfortably and all my money comes from my having worked for it for 47 years or so..

as the Tao says: &quot; A wise man knows that enough is enough&quot;

I have enough.