..solution found to Jamaica's crime problem..

[jah_yout]

Re: ..solution found to Jamaica's crime problem..

one of the traditional definitions of insanity is using the same method over & over agian but expecting different results;
they also say they can't help a patient get over a problem unless that patient first admits that there is a problem;

so J-A does the same thing over & over again while desiring different results while refusing to acknowledge there is a problem...
although the presence of more j'cans living on foreign soil than actually on the rock is the true testament that there is a problem...(they also mostly refuse to go back to live after retirement- speaks volumes);

one way i can think of involves force of arms...
i can only see it happening when the right one with the right organization & vision for leadership, backed by the right arms, makes a run at power;
the corruption of the present status-quo is so deeply entrenched they will have to be forced out...
the hope is that the power that takes over is a more balanced, honorable one...serious problems require serious solutions

[RichD]

Re: ..solution found to Jamaica's crime problem..

force of arms to enforce what? productivity? morality? and who is going to ensure the morality of those in charge of the force?

[X]

Re: ..solution found to Jamaica's crime problem..

wouldnt simply looking to a "new leadership" for the answer be an example of doing the same thing over and expecting a different result?

IMHO Jamaica's problem is with the people, not simply &quot;leadership&quot;.. Its the PEOPLE who needs to be mentally empowered (&quot;imancipated from mental slavery&quot. its the people who needs to hold <span style="font-style: italic">whoever </span>is in leadership <span style="font-weight: bold">accountable</span>.. The People/citizens who need to look into ourselves and make the hard decisions and make the sacrifices.
For this to happen, it would start with a serious look at the <span style="font-weight: bold">education system... </span>and that &quot;intelectual Ghetto&quot; called the UWI may be a prime candidate for &quot;review&quot;..

but then again, i'm a dunce anyhow...

[RichD]

Re: ..solution found to Jamaica's crime problem..

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pleXxed</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
but then again, i'm a dunce anyhow... </div></div>
you related to wahalla?

[jah_yout]

Re: ..solution found to Jamaica's crime problem..

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RichD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">force of arms to enforce what? productivity? morality? and who is going to ensure the morality of those in charge of the force? </div></div>

all of that &amp; then some...

unfortunately there is no way to ensure the morality of those in charge...only the people can exert pressure if they fail to show discernable progress...
obviously that does not always work as we can see in places like syria...&amp; even egypt- although they claim they will re-institute civilian rule;

my argument is simply that the jlp/pnp model has failed...the leadership we have become used to has failed;

i would like to see new leaders with new visions given a chance, but i am not confident the corrupt ones already in place will allow this-- this is why i say it will take ones with power-- power outside of that clique will no doubt mean force of arms-- the only language jamaica understands to this point

[jah_yout]

Re: ..solution found to Jamaica's crime problem..

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pleXxed</div><div class="ubbcode-body">wouldnt simply looking to a &quot;new leadership&quot; for the answer be an example of doing the same thing over and expecting a different result?
</div></div>

it can be looked at that way...but the US got new leadership after the revolution against britain &amp; became a very different place; cuba got new leadership after their revolution &amp; it became a very different place;
even places right now like bolivia are changing the way they have done business &amp; becoming very different places...
so i disagree that new leadership will necessarily yield same results

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">IMHO Jamaica's problem is with the people, not simply &quot;leadership&quot;.. Its the PEOPLE who needs to be mentally empowered (&quot;imancipated from mental slavery&quot. its the people who needs to hold <span style="font-style: italic">whoever </span>is in leadership <span style="font-weight: bold">accountable</span>.. The People/citizens who need to look into ourselves and make the hard decisions and make the sacrifices.
For this to happen, it would start with a serious look at the <span style="font-weight: bold">education system... </span>and that &quot;intelectual Ghetto&quot; called the UWI may be a prime candidate for &quot;review&quot;..

but then again, i'm a dunce anyhow... </div></div>

leadership always sets the tone for the people...
if leadership wishes to keep the people ignorant, the majority will remain ignorant;
the education system teaches people how to be serfs...how to not challenge the ruling classes;
even if the people revolt, they will still need a leader/s to organize &amp; direct the revolt, otherwise just chaos...
it is not in the interest of the present ruling class to give the people certain education as it will threaten their power;
nor will they suddenly start educating the masses about the real situation...
that is why i say it may come to force...
i don't want to see bloodshed in jamaica but some forces have to get rooted out;

without struggle there is no progress

[X]

Re: ..solution found to Jamaica's crime problem..

understood, but unlike the states, Jamaica is not a colony ruled by an imperialist... well not on paper any how... as for Cuba.. not sure if thats where Jamaica needs to be.

Egypt ousted Mubarak...

<span style="font-weight: bold">Egypt's revolution descends into chaos as the movement for freedom fractures </span>

read more &gt; http://www.executive-magazine.com/ge...?article=14511

[RichD]

Re: ..solution found to Jamaica's crime problem..

are you going back to help with the rooting or you waiting for the dust to settle to enjoy the spoils?

[RichD]

Re: ..solution found to Jamaica's crime problem..

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jah_yout</div><div class="ubbcode-body">[quote=RichD]
my argument is simply that the jlp/pnp model has failed...the leadership we have become used to has failed;

</div></div>

whhen you say the model has failed are you referring to the traditional parliamentary model? or are you more referring to the baggage associated with those two parties?

[jah_yout]

Re: ..solution found to Jamaica's crime problem..

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RichD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">are you going back to help with the rooting or you waiting for the dust to settle to enjoy the spoils?

</div></div>

i plan on going back to help with the rooting...however small;

fortunately i have avenues available where i could foresee doing grassroots work inna J-A;

and i have relatives there still active as well as up-coming in socio-political circles

[jah_yout]

Re: ..solution found to Jamaica's crime problem..

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">understood, but unlike the states, Jamaica is not a colony ruled by an imperialist... well not on paper any how</div></div>

key difference;
america threw off the imperialists while jamaica was basically 'granted' independence...hence the imperialists were able to hold on to more influence in J-A than an independent country would normally like or allow

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">as for Cuba.. not sure if thats where Jamaica needs to be.</div></div>

true, but the truth is that cuba is the only carib nation that faced reality in terms of imperialism's effect on their country &amp; at least attempted to fight it...
a country like jamaica has never put up a serious challenge to foreign domination;
if murder &amp; terror of fellow countrymen is a mark of progress, then jamaica has made steady progress while cuba has sunk

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Egypt ousted Mubarak...

Egypt's revolution descends into chaos as the movement for freedom fractures </div></div>

this is why i believe in leaders...mass revolt without direction only results in opportunists grabbing hold of power in the name of the people--
the trial of mubarek is a charade to pacify the people getting restless

[jah_yout]

Re: ..solution found to Jamaica's crime problem..

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RichD</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jah_yout</div><div class="ubbcode-body">[quote=RichD]
my argument is simply that the jlp/pnp model has failed...the leadership we have become used to has failed;

</div></div>

whhen you say the model has failed are you referring to the traditional parliamentary model? or are you more referring to the baggage associated with those two parties? </div></div>

both;
the parties have failed &amp; the parliamentary system has failed...
simply modeling gov't after the british system is not enough...
they have to be creative enough to come up with models that are more appropriate for J-A's specific realities;

it should not be governed or thought of the same way a former empire is