Origin of a song? Mattie Rag

[Morwen Edhelwen]

OK, first, an introduction; I'm an Australian girl of Chinese background, interested in Jamaican culture(or else why would I be joining a discussion forum about Jamaica?), especially folk and mento music. I wondered whether anyone can tell me about the origin and meaning of the song "Mattie Rag". The one that starts:

Mumma, mumma dem ketch puppa,
Dem ketch im dung a mango walk.
If a neva run dem woulda ketch mi tu,
So mi sing sweet song and play guitar.

From singing that song and research, I know enough Jamaican Patois to know that the first verse means (in Australian English) "Mum, Mum, they caught Dad down at the mango orchard. If I don't run they will catch me too, so I sing a sweet song and play guitar". My question is, any posters here actually know what "Mattie Rag" refers to, where the song comes from, or even if it means anything? I can't find anything in Internet research and the book I have- "Mango Time: Folk Songs of Jamaica"- only says what I already know; it's a mento song. Anyone have a clue?

[SandiF]

Re: Origin of a song? Mattie Rag

Yes- it is a mento song but not sure it is a folk song. But I'll be cautious to dismiss it as NOT a folk song since our cultural queen, the Honourable Louise Bennett-Cloverly sang this on vinyl record from before me did even born.

Mattie is usually a woman's name...short for Mathilda. Mattie rag..hmm.. I'd only be guessing that it is referring to something illegal or not within regulations since puppa get ketch. I'd only surmise that puppa was lighting up a big spliff or enjoying some sugar cane rum.

Sorry, wish I had more on this for you

[Morwen Edhelwen]

Re: Origin of a song? Mattie Rag

Well, I found out that Mattie can also be a nickname for Martha as well as Matilda, and when I first heard it I thought it was about a homeless woman; rags=stereotype for a homeless person. A poster on another (music) forum thought it might be an illegal substance as well; tobacco- "rag tobacco"- chewing tobacco?, or that it might be referring to "chew the rag", talk for a long time.

[Morwen Edhelwen]

Re: Origin of a song? Mattie Rag

And also, might seem stupid, but what's a "spliff"?

[Morwen Edhelwen]

Re: Origin of a song? Mattie Rag

Sorry-- haven't figured out how to post on here fully yet; just found out the definition of spliff.

[SandiF]

Re: Origin of a song? Mattie Rag

I wouldn't think tobacco since using tobacco (chewing or smoking) is by far not frowned on in Jamaica. The lighting up of a big spliff (aka ganja, marijuana) is a whole different deal and something which can have legal or societal ramifications in Jamaica society.

Btw, Bajan calypso music (Barbados) refer to 'Mattie' as a close friend or old friend, per this site http://www.eng.fju.edu.tw/worldlit/c...dictionary.htm -- I do not think it is related but that's just my opinion.

I had to search google for an audio, this one by Lord Tanamo http://www.in-jamaica.com/vidfeeder_...id=k6vgiTuVoOE I noticed some titles of the song refer to it as "Ol Matilda"

Morwen, are you familiar with Waltzing Matilda? Being from Australia I would expect you to be... I see a subtle similarity between Waltzing Matilda and Mattie Rag but that could be me over thinking.

[Morwen Edhelwen]

Re: Origin of a song? Mattie Rag

That's interesting (both points you made) We learn Waltzing Matilda starting in primary school. I did in Year 2 twelve years ago (I'm 18). What similarities do you see between WM and MR? The music? I didn't notice any similarities; the tunes sound different to me.
BTW, there are actually <span style="font-style: italic">[two different/i] versions of [i]Waltzing Matilda</span>.

[Morwen Edhelwen]

Re: Origin of a song? Mattie Rag

And another thing I'm curious about- why would alcohol (sugar cane rum) be considered illegal/out of bounds? The only time/place I've heard of alcohol being <span style="font-style: italic">illegal, but definitely not being frowned upon by society is Prohibition-era America, but maybe if it's alcohol, he (the singer/persona's father) was caught being drunk in public, which definitely would be disapproved of </span>

[Morwen Edhelwen]

Re: Origin of a song? Mattie Rag

Bump

[Derek]

Re: Origin of a song? Mattie Rag

Perhaps the state of being hopelessly drunk is frowned upon.

[Magician]

Re: Origin of a song? Mattie Rag

Maybe it's named after the sameMatilda who has a Corner in Kingston.

[St_Bess]

Re: Origin of a song? Mattie Rag


Mumma, mumma dem ketch puppa,
Dem ketch im dung a mango walk.
If a neva run dem woulda ketch mi tu,
So mi sing sweet song and play guitar.

I always thought that the child and her father (Puppa) were stealing mangos in the mango walk and Puppa got caught. The child ran to tell her mother what happened to her father. In the country parts where I am from anywhere lots of mango trees are found they local folks called it mango walk.

[Gen]

Re: Origin of a song? Mattie Rag

this explanation could do nuhbaddy nuh waan get ketch a teef inna anybody &quot;walk&quot;

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: St_Bess</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Mumma, mumma dem ketch puppa,
Dem ketch im dung a mango walk.
If a neva run dem woulda ketch mi tu,
So mi sing sweet song and play guitar.

I always thought that the child and her father (Puppa) were stealing mangos in the mango walk and Puppa got caught. The child ran to tell her mother what happened to her father. In the country parts where I am from anywhere lots of mango trees are found they local folks called it mango walk.
</div></div>

[Peasie]

Re: Origin of a song? Mattie Rag

I find that most Mento songs were filled with double entendres usually commenting on bedroom or real politics.

So this song could be interpreted as, say, Daddy was caught dallying in a place where he should not have been and such a place was a favorite of many men. 'Daddy' could be a local higher-up.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Mumma, mumma dem ketch puppa,
Dem ketch im dung a mango walk.
If a neva run dem woulda ketch mi tu,
So mi sing sweet song and play guitar. </div></div>

[Morwen Edhelwen]

Re: Origin of a song? Mattie Rag

What, or who, does [i][Mattie /i] refer to? I always assumed a few things; the singer is a young child (assumed it was a boy for some reason), he was stealing mangoes(the &quot;could have caught me too&quot while the father was doing something illegal. Peasie, I think you mean &quot;double meaning&quot;. A &quot;double entendre&quot; means something else, as you may know .