Whites and Welfare - GOP and the Food Stamp Fallac

[R_C]

Re: Whites and Welfare - GOP and the Food Stamp Fallac

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: lonrwolf</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style="font-weight: bold">Illegal aliens have cost billions of taxpayer-funded dollars for medical services. Dozens of hospitals in Texas, New Mexico Arizona, and California, have been forced to close or face bankruptcy because of federally-mandated programs requiring free emergency room services to illegal aliens. Taxpayers pay half-a-billion dollars per year incarcerating illegal alien criminals. </span>

Immigration is a net drain on the economy; corporate interests reap the benefits of cheap labor, while taxpayers pay the infrastructural cost. FAIR research shows &quot;the net annual cost of immigration has been estimated at between $67 and $87 billion a year. The National Academy of Sciences found that the net fiscal drain on American taxpayers is between $166 and $226 a year per native household. Even studies claiming some modest overall gain for the economy from immigration ($1 to $10 billion a year) have found that it is outweighed by the fiscal cost ($15 to $20 billion a year) to native taxpayers</div></div> </div></div>

A wonderful straw man !

[RichD]

Re: Whites and Welfare - GOP and the Food Stamp Fallac

these are th kinds of gems that report ponts out:


1. Out-of-wedlock births are strongly related to welfare dependency. A 1 percent increase in the welfare dependent population in a state increases the number of births to single mothers by about 0.5 percent.

2. Illegitimacy is also related to nonemployment. A 1 percent increase in the nonemployed population increases the births to single mothers by about 0.9 percent.

3. The level of welfare benefits, in turn, indirectly increases illegitimacy through the effects on the size of the dependent population and on the number of the nonemployed. An increase in AFDC benefits by 1 percent of average income increases the number of births to single mothers by about 2.1 percent.

[quodlibet]

Re: Whites and Welfare - GOP and the Food Stamp Fallac

All of this debate is irrelevant.

The fact is, that either side will choose a position FIRST, then go out to find the &quot;facts&quot; or &quot;statistics&quot; to support their foregone conclusion.

[R_C]

Re: Whites and Welfare - GOP and the Food Stamp Fallac

So Quod, other than restating the obvious, do you actually have an opinion to share ? Or did you just come to pee in the punch bowl ?

[Blackstar*]

Re: Whites and Welfare - GOP and the Food Stamp Fallac

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: R_C</div><div class="ubbcode-body">A wonderful straw man ! </div></div>Right! He's throwing everything but the kitchen sink at the original issue hoping one of them will stick.

[Blackstar*]

Re: Whites and Welfare - GOP and the Food Stamp Fallac

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Quodlibet</div><div class="ubbcode-body">All of this debate is irrelevant.

The fact is, that either side will choose a position FIRST, then go out to find the &quot;facts&quot; or &quot;statistics&quot; to support their foregone conclusion. </div></div>Are any of the statistics regarding poverty and assistance &quot;statistics&quot; and if so which ones?

Let's leave out the numbers regarding the supposed causes of poverty for the moment.

[lonewolf]

Re: Whites and Welfare - GOP and the Food Stamp Fallac

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">A wonderful straw man ! </div></div>

Try to expand your horizons and think beyond your agenda. A person or persons that immigrate legally, or in most hispanic's cases illegally, arrive in this country already poor and without any preventative health care. Their condition is already compromised by the lack of preventative medicine not obtained from the 3rd world country that they abandoned. So, that said, the host country, or in this case the US, must now provide them with health care in their already poor state of physical condition.

The US Social system is designed to handle the amount of legal citizens that are in the country, not the unexpected numbers of illegals that arrive....Again, try to think beyond that narrow portion of agenda driven brain matter that is not grounded in rational thought.

The Social System in this country was designed as a safety net, for those that ACTUALLY PAY into the system to hedge against hard times on a temporary basis, and not for those that did not pay into the system, or for those that raise generations of families that permanently live off the system, as we see in many US urban environments. The gap between the 'haves and have nots' is acceptable and rational numbers. The best correction is to deport and stop illegal immigration and not give welfare to those that are not US citizens, change the rules and require welfare recipients to at least work some minumum wage job to be eligible for any handout.

[RichD]

Re: Whites and Welfare - GOP and the Food Stamp Fallac

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: lonrwolf</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">A wonderful straw man ! </div></div>

Try to expand your horizons and think beyond your agenda. A person or persons that immigrate legally, or in most hispanic's cases illegally, arrive in this country already poor and without any preventative health care. Their condition is already compromised by the lack of preventative medicine not obtained from the 3rd world country that they abandoned. So, that said, the host country, or in this case the US, must now provide them with health care in their already poor state of physical condition.

The US Social system is designed to handle the amount of legal citizens that are in the country, not the unexpected numbers of illegals that arrive....Again, try to think beyond that narrow portion of agenda driven brain matter that is not grounded in rational thought.

The Social System in this country was designed as a safety net, for those that ACTUALLY PAY into the system to hedge against hard times on a temporary basis, and not for those that did not pay into the system, or for those that raise generations of families that permanently live off the system, as we see in many US urban environments. The gap between the 'haves and have nots' is acceptable and rational numbers. The best correction is to deport and stop illegal immigration and not give welfare to those that are not US citizens, change the rules and require welfare recipients to at least work some minumum wage job to be eligible for any handout. </div></div>

if welfare and medicare/medicaid were eliminated completly would the budge balance?

[R_C]

Re: Whites and Welfare - GOP and the Food Stamp Fallac

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: lonrwolf</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">A wonderful straw man ! </div></div>

Try to expand your horizons and think beyond your agenda. A person or persons that immigrate legally, or in most hispanic's cases illegally, arrive in this country already poor and without any preventative health care. Their condition is already compromised by the lack of preventative medicine not obtained from the 3rd world country that they abandoned. So, that said, the host country, or in this case the US, must now provide them with health care in their already poor state of physical condition.

The US Social system is designed to handle the amount of legal citizens that are in the country, not the unexpected numbers of illegals that arrive....Again, try to think beyond that narrow portion of agenda driven brain matter that is not grounded in rational thought.

The Social System in this country was designed as a safety net, for those that ACTUALLY PAY into the system to hedge against hard times on a temporary basis, and not for those that did not pay into the system, or for those that raise generations of families that permanently live off the system, as we see in many US urban environments. The gap between the 'haves and have nots' is acceptable and rational numbers. The best correction is to deport and stop illegal immigration and not give welfare to those that are not US citizens, change the rules and require welfare recipients to at least work some minumum wage job to be eligible for any handout. </div></div>

&quot;Try to expand your horizons&quot; Oh please. How about &quot;Try to play along while I change the subject since I don't have a credible response to your post&quot;.

You are so transparent.

[twiney]

Re: Whites and Welfare - GOP and the Food Stamp Fallac

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Try to expand your horizons and think beyond your agenda. A person or persons that <span style="font-weight: bold">immigrate legally</span>, or in most hispanic's cases illegally, a<span style="font-weight: bold">rrive in this country already poor and without any preventative health care.</span> Their condition is already compromised by the lack of preventative medicine not obtained from the 3rd world country that they abandoned. So, that said, the host country, or in this case the US, must now provide them with health care in their already poor state of physical condition. </div></div>

This is one of the biggest piece of crap I have seen in a long time ... There are enough immigrants that are in better health, far from poor than some of the so called &quot;non-immigrants&quot; (like unno parents and foreparents are Indians to baxide) to prove this a lie... Infact all the testing and checks that you have to pass most of these ppl never get in a life time.. look like it's time to go look for the report that say immigrants health deteriorate after them migrate so them have a right to the health care.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Evidence from the LSIC and CCHS indicates that in the initial period after arrival, the self-reported health status of immigrants is better than that of their Canadian born counterparts. This reflects the “healthy immigrant effect,” which is possibly due to the health standards required by the immigrant selection program and verified by a pre-migration medical examination. According to section 38 of Canada’s Immigration and Refugee Protection Act (IRPA) issued in 2002, “a foreign national is inadmissible on health grounds if their health condition (a) is likely to be a danger to public health; (b) is likely to be a danger to public safety; or (c) might reasonably be expected to cause excessive demand on health or social services.” However, this “healthy immigrant effect” is found to diminish gradually with time spent in Canada. </div></div>
source

[Blackstar*]

Re: Whites and Welfare - GOP and the Food Stamp Fallac

Illegal immigration and OOW pregnancies do not have a direct correlation to poverty or the amount of assistance recieved. I would just disregard those posts until the poster starts a thread dedicated to those topics.


WRT race and poverty, let's take a look at the poorest village in the US, population 42,000 in 2010.

The racial makeup of the village is:
- 99.02% White
- 0.21% African American
- 0.02% Asian
- 0.12% from other races
- 0.63% from two or more races
- 0.93% Hispanic or Latino of any race

61.7% of families and 62.2% of the population were below the poverty line and 40% of the population receive food stamps

[lonewolf]

Re: Whites and Welfare - GOP and the Food Stamp Fallac

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">TWINNEY QUOTE:<span style="font-weight: bold">This is one of the biggest piece of crap I have seen in a long time ... There are enough immigrants that are in better health, far from poor than some of the so called &quot;non-immigrants</span>&quot; (like unno parents and foreparents are Indians to baxide) to prove this a lie... Infact all the testing and checks that you have to pass most of these ppl never get in a life time.. look like it's time to go look for the report that say immigrants health deteriorate after them migrate so them have a right to the health care </div></div>


<span style="font-style: italic">You need to do your homework...</span>




<span style="font-weight: bold">&quot;It's creeping into the U.S.,&quot; the news service quoted Dr. William Levis, head of the New York Hansen's Disease Clinic. &quot;This is a real phenomenon. It's a public health threat. New York is endemic now, and nobody's noticed.&quot; Levis told the news service he believes the United States is &quot;on the cusp&quot; of an epidemic &quot;because we're starting to see endemic cases that we didn't see 25 years ago.&quot;</span>

<span style="font-weight: bold">The reason: the huge influx of immigrants, many of them illegal.</span>

<span style="font-style: italic">Taken from long article below...</span>



:
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">A resurgence of deadly diseases: diseases once thought to be nearly eradicated in America, such as tuberculosis and leprosy, are now rising as illegal immigrants bring their health problems to our country.

&quot;Every legal immigrant before 1924 was examined for infectious diseases upon arrival and tested for tuberculosis,&quot; Cosman wrote. &quot;Anyone infected was shipped back to the old country. That was powerful incentive for each newcomer to make heroic efforts to appear healthy. Today, immigrants must demonstrate that they are free of communicable diseases and drug addiction to qualify for lawful permanent residency green cards. Illegal aliens simply cross our borders medically unexamined, hiding in their bodies any number of communicable diseases.&quot;

Among the deadly maladies pouring across the border is tuberculosis, mostly wiped out in modern America, Cosman writes, &quot;thanks to excellent hygiene and powerful modern drugs.&quot; <span style="font-weight: bold">But now, multidrug resistant tuberculosis has arrived in America via Mexico and other third-world countries. &quot;MDR-TB,&quot; she explained, &quot;takes 24 months [to cure] with many expensive drugs that cost around $250,000, with toxic side effects. Each illegal with MDR-TB coughs and infects 10 to 30 people, who will not show symptoms immediately. Latent disease explodes later.&quot;

TB cases in Virginia jumped 17 percent in 2002, but Prince William County, alone, she reported, witnessed a 188-percent increase. And there's more:

Quoting the federal Centers for Disease Control, in 2005, the Washington Times reported that &quot;people from outside the United States accounted for 53.3 percent of all new tuberculosis cases in this country in 2003. That was up from fewer than 30 percent in 1993. In 2003, nearly 26 percent of foreign-born TB patients in the United States were from Mexico. Another third of the foreign-born cases were among those from the Philippines, Vietnam, India and China.&quot;</span>
If drug-resistant TB won't scare the politicians into doing something, perhaps Chagas disease will.

Chagas is really American trypanosomiasis and also known as kissing-bug disease. It was unknown in America until recently, but common south of the border where the reduviid bug lives. This odious little critter bites the lips and face and transmits a protozoan parasite. Cosman wrote that Chagas infects 18 million people annually in Latin America and causes 50,000 deaths. The disease can be transmitted through the blood supply. It is incurable, and death from Chagas is agonizing: &quot;After 10 to 20 years [of infection], up to 30 percent will die when their hearts or intestines, enlarged and weakened by Chagas, burst. Three people in 2001 received Chagas-infected organ transplants. Two died.&quot;

In its aforementioned report, the Washington Times said, &quot;The American Red Cross estimates that nationally, the risk of a blood donor having antibodies to Chagas or being infected with the disease is 1 in 25,000. The risk is 1 in 5,400 in Los Angeles and 1 in 9,000 in Miami. The Red Cross says it will begin screening donors for Chagas, once a suitable test is found.&quot; These data suggest the American blood supply is endangered. Some 15 million Latin Americans have Chagas, the Times reported, quoting one doctor who was &quot;amazed&quot; that only five cases have despoiled the U.S. blood supply since 1986. And &quot;federal data,&quot; the Times reported, &quot;suggest that as many as 10 percent of the approximately 1,000 Mexicans who emigrate to the United States daily probably are infected with Chagas.&quot;

Yet another scourge thought eliminated from the American medical scene is leprosy, or Hansen's disease. &quot;Leprosy ... was so rare in America that in 40 years only 900 people were afflicted,&quot; Cosman reported. &quot;Suddenly, in the past three years America has more than 7,000 cases of leprosy. Leprosy now is endemic to northeastern states because illegal aliens and other immigrants brought leprosy from India, Brazil, the Caribbean, and Mexico.&quot;

Reported the Columbia News Service in 2005, &quot;about 130 new cases are diagnosed in the United States annually, &quot;mostly among immigrants from areas such as Mexico, India or the Caribbean.... Over 100 cases were found in immigrants last year, more than double the number in 2000, and, while the number of cases is still comparatively small, some researchers believe the trend could lead to leprosy spreading to the U.S.-born population.&quot;

<span style="font-weight: bold">&quot;It's creeping into the U.S.,&quot; the news service quoted Dr. William Levis, head of the New York Hansen's Disease Clinic. &quot;This is a real phenomenon. It's a public health threat. New York is endemic now, and nobody's noticed.&quot; Levis told the news service he believes the United States is &quot;on the cusp&quot; of an epidemic &quot;because we're starting to see endemic cases that we didn't see 25 years ago.&quot;</span>

<span style="font-weight: bold">The reason: the huge influx of immigrants, many of them illegal.</span>

The other diseases Cosman and health officials worry about are polio, dengue fever, malaria, Kawasaki disease, hepatitis, and typhoid.

Forgetting about the expense of providing healthcare to illegal immigrants, the diseases they bring demand a single, firm decision: secure the borders</div></div>.


http://www.thefreelibrary.com/A+resurgen....

[RichD]

Re: Whites and Welfare - GOP and the Food Stamp Fallac

CDC DATA

In 2010, the reported number of TB cases decreased slightly from the previous year. In 2010, there were 11,182 reported TB cases (3.6 cases per 100,000 persons) compared to 11,537 reported TB cases from 2009. <span style="font-weight: bold">TB case totals are now at the lowest number recorded since national reporting began in 1953.</span>




Your link is broken so cant see the full source of your article. But i can bet its form some propaganda rag. i know anti immigrant guys like Lou Dobbs have been pushing this misinformation.

[lonewolf]

Re: Whites and Welfare - GOP and the Food Stamp Fallac

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RichD</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> CDC DATA

In 2010, the reported number of TB cases decreased slightly from the previous year. In 2010, there were 11,182 reported TB cases (3.6 cases per 100,000 persons) compared to 11,537 reported TB cases from 2009. <span style="font-weight: bold">TB case totals are now at the lowest number recorded since national reporting began in 1953.</span>




Your link is broken so cant see the full source of your article. But i can bet its form some propaganda rag. i know anti immigrant guys like Lou Dobbs have been pushing this misinformation.

</div></div>


<span style="font-style: italic">Why did you conveniently leave out the next paragraph in the report?</span>



<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How do the TB rates compare between U.S.-born persons and foreign-born persons living in the United States?
<span style="font-weight: bold">In 2010, 60% of reported TB cases in the United States occurred in foreign-born persons. The case rate among foreign-born persons (18.1 cases per 100,000) in 2010 was approximately 11* times higher than among U.S.-born persons (1.6 cases per 100,000).</span> </div></div>

<span style="font-style: italic">...and we have this</span>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Since 1998, the percentage of U.S.-born patients with primary MDR TB has remained at 0.7%. <span style="font-weight: bold">However, of the total number of reported primary MDR TB cases, the proportion occurring in foreign-born persons increased from 25.3% (103 of 407) in 1993, to 82% (72 of 88) in 2010</span>.

</div></div>

<span style="font-style: italic">All from the rest of the CDC report that YOU did not post in full</span>.

<span style="font-style: italic">Does the truth scare you?</span>


<span style="font-weight: bold">NoteMDR TB) is multidrug-resistant tuberculosis</span>

[RichD]

Re: Whites and Welfare - GOP and the Food Stamp Fallac

i provided the link

that the same as posting in full


did you fix your link to show the source?