Affirmative Action in college admissions to end ?

[R_C]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">&quot;Supporters of affirmative action reacted with alarm to the court’s decision to hear the case. “I think it’s ominous,” said Lee Bollinger, the president of Columbia University, who, as president of the University of Michigan, was a defendant in the Grutter case . “It threatens to undo several decades of effort within higher education to build a more integrated and just and educationally enriched environment.”

Opponents saw an opportunity to strike a decisive blow on an issue that had partly faded from view. “Any form of discrimination, whether it’s for or against, is wrong,” said Hans von Spakovsky, a legal fellow at the Heritage Foundation, who added that his daughter was applying to college. “The idea that she might be discriminated against and not be admitted because of her race is incredible to me,” he said.</div></div>

<span style="color: #990000">Source</span>

[lonewolf]

Re: Affirmative Action in college admissions to end ?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">“<span style="font-weight: bold">Any form of discrimination, whether it’s for or against, is wrong,” said Hans von Spakovsky, a legal fellow at the Heritage Foundation, who added that his daughter was applying to college. “The idea that she might be discriminated against and not be admitted because of her race is incredible to me,” he said</span> </div></div>

Affirmative action is doing exactly what it is supposed to be fixing.

Plain and simple, affirmative action is racism.

[kia027]

Re: Affirmative Action in college admissions to end ?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: lonrwolf</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">“<span style="font-weight: bold">Any form of discrimination, whether it’s for or against, is wrong,” said Hans von Spakovsky, a legal fellow at the Heritage Foundation, who added that his daughter was applying to college. “The idea that she might be discriminated against and not be admitted because of her race is incredible to me,” he said</span> </div></div>

Affirmative action is doing exactly what it is supposed to be fixing.

Plain and simple, affirmative action is racism. </div></div>

yeah right
until the day that a resume from a black person and a white person has equal treatment

until the day a black man can get a cab easily by hailing it in manhattan the same as a white man

until the day when black people can walk into a store &amp; shop without being followed pon a regular

until the day a black man can be president in america without being continously questioned on his citizenship status and to proove his academic credentials


There will be a need to force academic institutions to consider appllicants of non white races , particularly black, and admit them so they may obtain the same educational opportunities as their white counterparts.


Even today, I have to go in and fight in primary &amp; secondary schools to ensure my black son is fairly graded and treated. Why? because negative assumptions and stereotypes by the teachers cause them to grade differently.

[Tuff Gong]

Re: Affirmative Action in college admissions to end ?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: lonrwolf</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Plain and simple, affirmative action is racism. </div></div>

No it is not...It was a response to racism.
I think it should end. One problem while minorities bawl about Affirmative Action in Certain Collage ...so-called Historically Black College are proud to do all they can to keep out other shades/Colours/Races.

[R_C]

Re: Affirmative Action in college admissions to end ?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tuff Gong</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: lonrwolf</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Plain and simple, affirmative action is racism. </div></div>

so-called Historically Black College are proud to do all they can to keep out other shades/Colours/Races. </div></div>

Actually HBCUs are presently more racially desegregated, with respect to their enrollment and staff, than historically black institutions.

[lonewolf]

Re: Affirmative Action in college admissions to end ?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">yeah right
until the day that a resume from a black person and a white person has equal treatment
</div></div>

<span style="font-style: italic">Oh, really</span>?

Florida (Jacksonville): <span style="font-weight: bold">Firefighters Win Reverse Discrimination Lawsuit</span>; Fire Chief Responds

Excerpted from FirstCoastNews.Com on or before 3/8/06

By First Coast News Staff

JACKSONVILLE, FL -- &quot;<span style="font-weight: bold">A race discrimination lawsuit pitting several Jacksonville firefighters against the city has come to an end in federal court last Friday</span>.

&quot;The jury sided with the firefighters. Four lieutenants claimed their promotion to Captain was blocked by then Fire Chief Ray Alfred.

<span style="font-weight: bold">&quot;The firemen claimed race was a factor. The firefighters are white, the fire chief, black</span>



Florida (Miami): <span style="font-weight: bold">Area Police Depts. Sued for Reverse Discrimination </span>(09/05/98)
Instead of fighting crime, police in these departments are forced to spend time fighting race-based hiring and promotions policies. Two law suits have been filed; and there may be more suits.

According to the Sun-Sentinel of South Florida &quot;<span style="font-weight: bold">The dispute centers on practices such as the Miami Police Department hiring black officers because of their race. </span>


Georgia (Atlanta): 9 Atlanta Firefighters about to be Offered Settlement (01/27/99)
&quot;<span style="font-weight: bold">Nine Atlanta firefighters who sued Fire Chief Winston Minor with claims they were bypassed for job promotions because they are white soon may get some relief from the city</span>. Members of the city's Public Safety Committee on Tuesday unanimously agreed to pay the nine men--all captains who were seeking to be promoted to battalion chiefs--$325,000 in settlement of the discrimination lawsuit filed against Minor and two other fire chiefs in 1996.&quot; Let's see, that would be only $36,111 per firefighter for having their civil rights violated! (Atlanta Journal Constitution, 01/27/99, by Lyda Longa

Georgia (Atlanta / Fulton County): <span style="font-weight: bold">Black, Female Sheriff found Guilty of Reverse Discrimination </span> Adversity.Net (Horror Stories, Case 8, this site): <span style="font-weight: bold">Sheriff Jackie Barrett is black, she's female, and she doesn't like to hire or promote white officers! </span> The Court has found her out, and has ordered the Atlanta Sheriff's Department to pay over $800,000 in damages to 16 officers

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">until the day a black man can get a cab easily by hailing it in manhattan the same as a white man
</div></div>

<span style="font-weight: bold">&quot;There is nothing more painful for me at this stage in my life than to walk down the street and hear footsteps and start to think about robbery and then look around and see it’s somebody white and feel relieved.&quot; The Reverend Jesse Jackson</span>.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">until the day a black man can be president in america without being continously questioned on his citizenship status and to proove his academic credentials </div></div>

It's part of the political game. That's politics and not racism. A majority of a WHITE voting population is the reason a BLACK man was elected.
THIS FACT YOU CANNOT DISPUTE.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There will be a need to force academic institutions to consider appllicants of non white races , particularly black, and admit them so they may obtain the same educational opportunities as their white counterparts </div></div>

BS, that's racial discrimination, regardless of how you want to dress it up. You cannot pick someone whom has under achieved over someone else. The whole system will suffer if the best and brightest are not chosen...it's simple logic.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Even today, I have to go in and fight in primary &amp; secondary schools to ensure my black son is fairly graded and treated. Why? because negative assumptions and stereotypes by the teachers cause them to grade differently </div></div>

I find that hard to believe. Test scores don't lie. So, what you are saying is the teacher is failing your son because he is black?...and not because he is failing to produce passing scores? If what you say is true than YOU need to sue the school system and have the teacher fired. What race is the school teacher?

[WitchyOoman]

Re: Affirmative Action in college admissions to end ?

Numerical quotas are, in fact, discrimination; Percentage quotas, properly and completely defined and strictly enforced, are not discrimination.
Specifically-named minority quotas are also discrimination, whereas percentage generalized-minorities quotas are not.

The problem with writing out policy for the latter is that such issues as definition of &quot;minorities&quot;, and specifics on how to handle issues such as open minority spots that cannot be filled by qualified minorities must be written in full detail and enforced strictly.


Examples .....

A university or company holds fifty spots for black students only. This is a discriminatory numerical quota. It prevents any non-black from getting a spot/position - that's racism.
Instead, the same uni or company could lawfully provide for, say, a 10% or 25% (or whatever) total student/workers minority population, with &quot;minority&quot; specifically defined by list. (and yes, the list could lawfully basically state &quot;minority = anything but caucasian/white&quot

It's difficult to conceive of such a situation, but there might be a case when spots reserved for minorities really can't be filled by qualified minorities, in which case qualified non-minorities should be accepted/hired for the class/job. I personally really can't believe that a university, these days, would 'run out' of qualified minority students... nor a company 'run out' of qualified workers... but if it should really happen, then qualified non-minority people should be permitted to fill those spots.

[WitchyOoman]

Re: Affirmative Action in college admissions to end ?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Kia</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Even today, I have to go in and fight in primary &amp; secondary schools to ensure my black son is fairly graded and treated. Why? because negative assumptions and stereotypes by the teachers cause them to grade differently.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: lonrwolf</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I find that hard to believe. Test scores don't lie. So, what you are saying is the teacher is failing your son because he is black?...and not because he is failing to produce passing scores? If what you say is true than YOU need to sue the school system and have the teacher fired. What race is the school teacher? </div></div></div></div>
Actually, lonrwolf, test scores <span style="font-style: italic">DO</span> sometimes lie because tests themselves often are biased!

Quantitative based tests (spelling, math) are what they are content-wise, but qualitative based tests (vocabulary, social studies, history) are very often culturally biased.

Textbooks - and the standardized tests that come with them - are not written with minorities in mind; they're written to sell millions to the majority. This is especially problematic for students who are first-generation Americans, whose parents do not know the basic &quot;American cultural stuff&quot; that most of us learn at home. It's also especially problematic for underprivileged students who must sit exams written by majority adults who have vastly different cultural experiences than the students who must take said exams.

As one specific example, there used to be a personality profile test they used to determine what sort of work your were suited for, and one of the questions on this test was &quot;Which do you prefer - travel or theater?&quot; Asking this question of a teenager from the ghetto who has eaten mac and cheese and hot dogs his entire life, and who has only ever seen the movies he's sneaked into, and who has only ever traveled as far as the far side of the town, is utterly ridiculous! He's never traveled. He's never been to the theater. How does he know which he'd prefer?! He doesn't know how to answer to answer that... so he leaves that question blank. But that blank answer affects his score!

It is absolutely true that some teachers treat black children (students) differently than white (or asian or hispanic) students, lonrwolf! Each teacher is different, many have prejudices. I would be far more surprised to find that any black student - including Kia's son - is treated differently, (read: unfairly) than to find that he is treated exactly the same, as non-black students.

[kia027]

Re: Affirmative Action in college admissions to end ?


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Even today, I have to go in and fight in primary &amp; secondary schools to ensure my black son is fairly graded and treated. Why? because negative assumptions and stereotypes by the teachers cause them to grade differently </div></div>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LonrWolf</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I find that hard to believe. Test scores don't lie. So, what you are saying is the teacher is failing your son because he is black?...and not because he is failing to produce passing scores? If what you say is true than YOU need to sue the school system and have the teacher fired. What race is the school teacher?
</div></div>


Test scores did lie.. We had the copy of the test and copy of the test from the other students. The kids who got partial credit were white. My son showed all of his work and did not get partial credit like the white kids. Of course the teacher was white

Also the subtle discrimination when a teacher sees a kid get a C+ and mentally think that is all the kid is good for, when if she demanded that he get his act together, she sees the grade move and stay at an A+ but you are probably white and dont understand that concept

So now you have that type of subtle discrimintation at the primary and secondary levels and then wonder why certain groups do not do as well on standardized testing?

Oh yeah let us not forget the perception that Asians are smart and how teachers using that perception in the elementary and secondary level will push the asian students forward. Granted a lot comes from within the home, where the children are demanded to perform very well and sufffer very negative consequences when when the grades are less than 95.

ETA - the test in question was a math test. His father is a math PhD. After his father went in and had chat with the teacher, grading disparity issues disappeared

[applepie]

Re: Affirmative Action in college admissions to end ?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Florida (Jacksonville): Firefighters Win Reverse Discrimination Lawsuit; Fire Chief Responds

Excerpted from FirstCoastNews.Com on or before 3/8/06

By First Coast News Staff

JACKSONVILLE, FL -- &quot;A race discrimination lawsuit pitting several Jacksonville firefighters against the city has come to an end in federal court last Friday.

&quot;The jury sided with the firefighters. Four lieutenants claimed their promotion to Captain was blocked by then Fire Chief Ray Alfred.

&quot;The firemen claimed race was a factor. The firefighters are white, the fire chief, black</div></div>


And the flip side to that if the chief was white no lawsuit would be sought; it would be a lack of communication.
It seems whenever a non white person holds some sort of leadership/management positions there seems to be more scrutiny and questioning of that persons action.

[nattydreadgirl]

Re: Affirmative Action in college admissions to end ?

Kia, I agree that the sterotyping goes on far too much in the school systems.
I think I relayed this incident before on here already,

Little white boy Tommy called my son a nasty name. My son bit little Tommy, my son was suspended (take in mind this was kindengarten) I went to the school to address the suspension (only my son was suspended)....Hear the teacher now: Tommy didnt know what he was saying but R knew what he meant! WTH! on the teacher, she was totally stereotyping. During our conversation she stuck her foot in her mouth on a couple more comments/observations that proved my point...She was being &quot;honest&quot; with a comment that she had very little experience with teaching black students....my response to her that she did not need to treat R different because he was black, look at him as a 5 year old kid, not a 5 year old black kid...

Now, she said this to my face, I had to leave the school, go home and calm myself down for about 1 hour before I was able to address this, cause my first reaction was to give her a this still makes my pressure rise today when I think of it.

I vote not to end affirmative action!!!

[kia027]

Re: Affirmative Action in college admissions to end ?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: nattydreadgirl</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Kia, I agree that the sterotyping goes on far too much in the school systems.
I think I relayed this incident before on here already,

Little white boy Tommy called my son a nasty name. My son bit little Tommy, my son was suspended (take in mind this was kindengarten) I went to the school to address the suspension (only my son was suspended)....Hear the teacher now: Tommy didnt know what he was saying but R knew what he meant! WTH! on the teacher, she was totally stereotyping. During our conversation she stuck her foot in her mouth on a couple more comments/observations that proved my point...She was being &quot;honest&quot; with a comment that she had very little experience with teaching black students....my response to her that she did not need to treat R different because he was black, look at him as a 5 year old kid, not a 5 year old black kid...

Now, she said this to my face, I had to leave the school, go home and calm myself down for about 1 hour before I was able to address this, cause my first reaction was to give her a this still makes my pressure rise today when I think of it.

I vote not to end affirmative action!!! </div></div>

I dont remember the story but yes the teacher deserve a fi dat yes!

[lonewolf]

Re: Affirmative Action in college admissions to end ?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Actually, lonrwolf, test scores DO sometimes lie because tests themselves often are biased!

Quantitative based tests (spelling, math) are what they are content-wise, <span style="font-weight: bold">but qualitative based tests (vocabulary, social studies, history) are very often culturally biased.</span> </div></div>

That's rediculous. What you are saying is nothing more than an excuse to excuse laziness and except mediocrity. I could read and study African history, even though I have not been culturally exposed to such, and still be able to retain such information if I take the time to study it and apply myself to the subject matter...don't you get it?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style="font-weight: bold">Textbooks - and the standardized tests that come with them - are not written with minorities in mind; they're written to sell millions to the majority</span>. This is especially problematic for students who are first-generation Americans, whose parents do not know the basic &quot;American cultural stuff&quot; that most of us learn at home. It's also especially problematic for underprivileged students who must sit exams written by majority adults who have vastly different cultural experiences than the students who must take said exams </div></div>

Are you serious? What do you want special ed? Short buses? Are you saying that black children are unable to learn as other children because the curriculum does not dumb down subject matter to meet their deficiency?

Your theory defies logic. Asian students arriving in the US that are completely at a cultural disadvantage, not only thrive, but excel and beat white US children at their own game in all phases of US based education.

As long as parents make excuses for minorities inabilty to keep up with the rest of the world, rather than demand more out of their children, than parents have done nothing but accept and foster the failure of their children...You are at fault, not the rest of the population. Keep up or get left behind. That's reality, like it or not.

Example: The 'No child left behind program' has been a total failure...Why? See the Atlanta school system debacle. Explain this...

[lonewolf]

Re: Affirmative Action in college admissions to end ?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Little white boy Tommy called my son a nasty name. My son bit little Tommy, my son was suspended (take in mind this was kindengarten) I went to the school to address the suspension (only my son was suspended)....Hear the teacher now: Tommy didnt know what he was saying but R knew what he meant! </div></div>

That teacher was idiot. He or she is probably a product of some institution of higher liberal learning. You don't suspend a five year old child, unless you don't have the ability to deal with the mind of a five year old child. The teacher needed to deal with the situation as an adult dealing with a child and explaining simple right and wrong. Higher education is not need in that situation, but only adult common sense and the ability to convey to a five year old proper conduct. IMO

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">my response to her that she did not need to treat R different because he was black, look at him as a 5 year old kid, not a 5 year old black k </div></div>

I absolutely agree with you.

[franksterr]

Re: Affirmative Action in college admissions to end ?

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