As there is so much to say about Hugh Shearer..

[makabush]

Re: As there is so much to say about Hugh Shearer..

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tropicana</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Interesting that 7 of the 21 were of Portuguese Jewish heritage at a time when there were fewer than 500 Jews in Jamaica.
</div></div>

This is no racism. The Jews have been on Jamaica longer than any of your ancestors unless you are Arawak. In other words, they are more Jamaican than you or I.

[Tuff Gong]

Re: As there is so much to say about Hugh Shearer..

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tropicana</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <span style="font-weight: bold"> Not one of the 21 families dominating the economy was of African descent</span> </div></div>
So what is not as if they stole what they had.
Most of them started selling on handcarts before they had stores.
The ex-Slaves got the land. The indentured servants saw a need and filled it.

Saint Michael Manley was hypocrite too. Many of the so-called 21 Families were his financial and even political backers. Today their names are stronger than ever.
When you destroy an economy on Oligarchs prosper.

[makabush]

Re: As there is so much to say about Hugh Shearer..

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tuff Gong</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> The indentured servants saw a need and filled it.
</div></div>

And not even all of them. There are some white people and Indians that still live basically like indentured servants. In fact, indentured white people, indians, and chinese were paid less than a free black man. Many never recovered from indentured servitude. You and I are richer than them. They are not surfing the internet...

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[evanovitch]

Re: As there is so much to say about Hugh Shearer..

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Wahalla</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: evanovitch</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If u di note dat a Hart was thrown out of PNP for being the C word yet an still n still di Hart name appears in the supposed 21families much bandid about by Joshua wagon sits...if dat kine a dbl chat don't sum up yaad in many a way , I dont know wat will... I have said before dat people killing dem selves over politics wile the stirrers of dem ire meeting afterwud wid all n sundry so drink mimosa n watch dem run rung like mad ants </div></div>

and Eli Matalon was the mininster of industry in the 72 goverment...
and the manley goverment nationalised Jamentel owned by the Matalons..
He died like the Minister of Justice of the smae govermetn in Miami!

The 21 families is a urban myth.... There are rich people in Jamaica.. </div></div>

i have said on yah dat familiies decide which memba gwine to go wid wich pawty n peeple tink a joke mi did a mek....every housing scheme whe build a yaad built by dem

[Tuff Gong]

Re: As there is so much to say about Hugh Shearer..

Saint Michael and his gang created the 22nd Family.
His destruction of the Tourism Industry in the 70s led to the rise of tourism garrisons and we all know which family name came out on top.
That family was a family with the right colour but no loot coming out of the 60s, now yu caan hole dem dung.
Classic case of mout mek fi anything.

[Tropicana]

Re: As there is so much to say about Hugh Shearer..

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: makabush</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tropicana</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Interesting that 7 of the 21 were of Portuguese Jewish heritage at a time when there were fewer than 500 Jews in Jamaica.
</div></div>

This is no racism. The Jews have been on Jamaica longer than any of your ancestors unless you are Arawak. In other words, they are more Jamaican than you or I. </div></div>

I am not disputing that makabush. Most of the Jamaican Jewish families have been in Jamaica for longer than the Black families. But don't you think it strange that in a country with an overwhelming majority of the population of African descent but<span style="font-weight: bold"> not even ONE family of African descent</span> were in the most powerful 21 and 7 Jewish families were when there wered less than 500 Jewish people on the island? Doesn't that sound off balance to you makabush? How can that NOT be evidence of systemic racism?

As Jackass say &quot;dis gorund no level&quot;.

[Tropicana]

Re: As there is so much to say about Hugh Shearer..


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Wahalla</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thats 12.... thats the 70's...

And mentions the Blacks Brothers, Butch Stewart, or Chen of super plus...there is one more who's name I cannot mention... but I suspect may be worth more than any of those families mentioned...

Appleton is owned by the Jamaican goverment.. the sugar industry is bankrupt and has been for the last thirty years......
the cement factory is owned by the Trinis...
Bauxite is owned by the Russians
Largest investments in Tourism by the Ria group....
Jamentel once owned by the matalons is now ownedby Luime
D&amp;G by Guiness


So the verasity of that is at best uncertain....

Guess that guy Powel who owns a private jet is not among the 21 families....

</div></div>


Wahalla, I told you, I don't have the full list of the 21 famlies. I have listed 12. Since I have done over half of the work, surely there are others here who can finish the list. Where is Dr. Dudd when we need him?

I am not talking about today - 2012. Butch Stewart don't come into this and neither does the current ownership of Appleton. We are looking at Hugh Shearer's era. Historically Appleton was owned by the Lindo family....Chris Blackwell's mother's family.

[evanovitch]

Re: As there is so much to say about Hugh Shearer..

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tropicana</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: makabush</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tropicana</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Interesting that 7 of the 21 were of Portuguese Jewish heritage at a time when there were fewer than 500 Jews in Jamaica.
</div></div>

This is no racism. The Jews have been on Jamaica longer than any of your ancestors unless you are Arawak. In other words, they are more Jamaican than you or I. </div></div>

I am not disputing that makabush. Most of the Jamaican Jewish families have been in Jamaica for longer than the Black families. But don't you think it strange that in a country with an overwhelming majority of the population of African descent but<span style="font-weight: bold"> not even ONE family of African descent</span> were in the most powerful 21 and 7 Jewish families were when there wered less than 500 Jewish people on the island? Doesn't that sound off balance to you makabush? How can that NOT be evidence of systemic racism?

As Jackass say &quot;dis gorund no level&quot;. </div></div>

wat u have to understand is that the families maintain their colour scheme if not their overt practices of ethnicity... they go to great pains to do so...u have many people wid dem names so go figga how dat go...it is an interesting mix an some people juss dont want to be pawt of the family given wat goes on ...lots of reasons....lots of mix up

[Tuff Gong]

Re: As there is so much to say about Hugh Shearer..

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: evanovitch</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
wat u have to understand is that the families maintain their colour scheme... an some people juss dont want to be pawt of the family given wat goes on ...lots of reasons....lots of mix up </div></div>

<span style="font-weight: bold">Personal question</span>: When you got married did you maintain your colour scheme or did you opt out?
Maybe I should ask <span style="font-weight: bold">Tropicana</span> too, isn't she from one of the <span style="font-weight: bold">Political Families</span>?

[Tropicana]

Re: As there is so much to say about Hugh Shearer..

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Derek</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Jamaicans, the report quotes Rodney as saying, are “predominantly black and not a multiracial community. Therefore they should be governed only by black people.”</div></div>


And what's wrong with that?
Isn't that the norm in most countries? </div></div>

Nothing wrong with it. That is the norm. I am just quoting from security reports what alarmed the Hugh Shearer government.

It astounds me that so many even on here have drunk the Koolaid and see nothing amiss in a society where the majority of people are Black yet for most of our history, anyone but Black people had the most powerful positions.

I must say the British and the Jamaican school system did a great job of brainwashin g the population that even until today people think this is perfectly alright. Man we have South African and the former Rhodeisa beat!!!

[evanovitch]

Re: As there is so much to say about Hugh Shearer..

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tuff Gong</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: evanovitch</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
wat u have to understand is that the families maintain their colour scheme... an some people juss dont want to be pawt of the family given wat goes on ...lots of reasons....lots of mix up </div></div>

<span style="font-weight: bold">Personal question</span>: When you got married did you maintain your colour scheme or did you opt out?
Maybe I should ask <span style="font-weight: bold">Tropicana</span> too, isn't she from one of the <span style="font-weight: bold">Political Families</span>? </div></div>

mi sure TG read wat i wrote already

[Tropicana]

Re: As there is so much to say about Hugh Shearer..

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: makabush</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tropicana</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
<span style="font-weight: bold"> Not one of the 21 families dominating the economy was of African descent</span>

</div></div>

Like super DUH. We were coming from slavery. DUH DUH DUH. who did you expect Nanny of the Maroons? *said with valley girl accent* </div></div>

makabush, I have not been disrespectful to you in any way so please don't DUH me.

You are going to tell me that there is nothing amiss in a society in which slavery finally ended in the 1830s and as recently as the 1960s not even ONE Black family was in a position of economic power. You are going to tell me that this is not a HUGE red flag that something is seriously rotten in the State of Denmark....I mean Jamaica.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Some of these families pre-date slavery on Jamaica and have been here since the Spanish. They have had 400+ years to work to where they got.

And I agree, Walter Rodney was dangerous to Jamaica. You do not understand that Jamaica is a multi-cultural society. It was one of the most divided societies in the world at one point. Fighting against an idea that has the power to unite &quot;out of one many people&quot; and espousing one that promotes the underprivileged at the expense of the currently privileged is asking for a Caribbean Rwanda. Jamaica would have been a gigantic tinder-box of Bin Ladenic proportions. </div></div>


Walter Rodney was merely stating the obvious that a society in which the majority of the population does not have access to opportunity is an unjust society. I am having a hard time understanding why this is not obvious to you and Tuff Gong.

[Tuff Gong]

Re: As there is so much to say about Hugh Shearer..

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tropicana</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Nothing wrong with it. That is the norm. I am just quoting from security reports what alarmed the Hugh Shearer government. </div></div>

You are conflating and confusing issues.
For one thing most of Jamaican people are black in is broadest sense.
Our Motto is Out Of Many One People.
There is every thing wrong with an outsider coming in to tell out to toss our Motto out the door.
Especially when that foreigner was wrong on every score.
For one thing Jamaican Latin named Black and light skinned natives have been at the highest managerial level in Jamaican society.
Most Asians, Syrians, Jews and others have had to mind their shops and stay out representational politics as well civil Jobs.

This is not about drinking kool-aid it is about facts.
This guy wanted us to toss out white Jamaicans from power and put blacks in but the blacks already held power. That why he was able to move around and talk crap.
As one member seh he should have tired that in Guyana and see where he would have ended up.

[Tropicana]

Re: As there is so much to say about Hugh Shearer..

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tuff Gong</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: evanovitch</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
wat u have to understand is that the families maintain their colour scheme... an some people juss dont want to be pawt of the family given wat goes on ...lots of reasons....lots of mix up </div></div>

<span style="font-weight: bold">Personal question</span>: When you got married did you maintain your colour scheme or did you opt out?
Maybe I should ask <span style="font-weight: bold">Tropicana</span> too, isn't she from one of the <span style="font-weight: bold">Political Families</span>? </div></div>

My grandfather was a founding member of the PNP. My older cousin (on my grandmothers side) says we are distant relatives to the Clarkes but I am not sure how. I did not grow up in Jamaica so neither of these facts had any impact on me. I only learned of these things as an adult.

As for marriage, my husband was Black Jamaican about the same complexion as me, not that this has anything to do with the price of tea in China but I suppose that is what you are asking. I was raised in a society in which Black is Black and I was made WELL aware of my Blackness...trust me. So, no I did not drink the Koolaid and I have not bought into any Jamaican style colour scheme. It makes no sense to me and simply does not compute.

[Tropicana]

Re: As there is so much to say about Hugh Shearer..

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tuff Gong</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tropicana</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Nothing wrong with it. That is the norm. I am just quoting from security reports what alarmed the Hugh Shearer government. </div></div>

You are conflating and confusing issues.
For one thing most of Jamaican people are black in is broadest sense.
Our Motto is Out Of Many One People.
There is every thing wrong with an outsider coming in to tell out to toss our Motto out the door.
Especially when that foreigner was wrong on every score.
For one thing Jamaican Latin named Black and light skinned natives have been at the highest managerial level in Jamaican society.
Most Asians, Syrians, Jews and others have had to mind their shops and stay out representational politics as well civil Jobs.

This is not about drinking kool-aid it is about facts.
This guy wanted us to toss out white Jamaicans from power and put blacks in but the blacks already held power. That why he was able to move around and talk crap.
As one member seh he should have tired that in Guyana and see where he would have ended up. </div></div>

That is not how I took it. He was commenting on the fact that in a society where the majority of people are Black....not light skinned Black either... it is just plain bizarre that no Black people held a position of economoic power.

The only place where Black people got a break at the time was in the civil service and as school teachers. The private sector was closed to us.

As for a foreigner coming into our home and telling us to toss out our motto, well tht was kind of rude but no reason to freak out.

If he was calling for violent uprisings or the overthorw of the Government, that's a different matter. I have yet to see any proof from his own writings or speeches that he was calling for that and no one has yet come on here and said they heard him say that. It's too bad I was too young to hear him speak when he came to Montreal.

Do you remember Horace Campbell? He s Jamaican isn't he. Is he still around? Now I did hear him speak years later and he is on Youtube speaking about Walter Rodney. I should dig that up and give it a listen.