As there is so much to say about Hugh Shearer..

[makabush]

Re: As there is so much to say about Hugh Shearer..

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tropicana</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I was raised in a society in which Black is Black and I was made WELL aware of my Blackness...trust me. So, no I did not drink the Koolaid and I have not bought into any Jamaican style colour scheme. It makes no sense to me and simply does not compute. </div></div>


I hate to tell you, but the red koolaid and the blue koolaid is still koolaid. You were raised in a society where Blacks are just as racist as Whites.

Thank god I did not drink the American koolaid.

1830s is not a long time ago in the grand scheme of things. You think an institution like slavery can disappear overnight? Blacks have been slowly but surely advancing themselves in life. We have &quot;out of many, one people&quot; to probably thank for that. It was a brainwashing technique to get Jamaicans out of colourism and it has been progressively working. I mean, the fact that shearer and pj and now portia are the prime ministers should trigger some kind of light that Jamaica for the most part is no longer a racist society.

But hundreds of years of slavery do not magically disappear. When the slaves were released they found a society where the positions of power were held by those that CREATED the society. They did not magically go back to England. Other positions of power were held by people who came to Jamaica and worked their backside off to make it better in life. They came to Jamaica hoping to make it better in life. Africans did not come to Jamaica with that outlook. That outlook has had to be developed personally.

For all your talk about how great the American outlook is, it is one of the worst outlooks in the history of mankind. Because none of us is one thing other than human.

[Tropicana]

Re: As there is so much to say about Hugh Shearer..

Let's get this straight....I have never defended the Canadian or American outlook. How often have you heard me saying anything positve about Canada or the USA. I have just said thank God I know that Black is Black and this awareness has come about because I was raised a foreign.

Let's get facts straight. I was not raised in the USA. I was raised in Canada. Clearly I did not drink the red and white Koolaid as we learned nothing about Black people at school.

In our grade one readers, only Spot the dog was black, Dick, Jane and Sally were White, There was the story of the Little Black Sambo getting a tiger to chase him around the tree until it turned into butter in our French book. Bunga in our grade 3 Geography book was a total embarrasment. There weren't many Black kids in my school but trust me we cringed. &quot;Bunga is a Negrito boy. Bunga is a pygmy.&quot; Give me a break.

Oh yes, and there was a story about Jamaica in our grade 7 reader. I remember the palms of all the Black people's hands were Black and people gathered outdoors by the river to have a roasted suckling pig feast at a long table. What garbage!

Then there was the one paragraph about slavery in the USA in the grade 10 history book. The only question the stupid teacher saw fit to ask was &quot;What arguments did the slave owners use to justify slavery?&quot; I brought that home to my folks and they were not amused. I answered that noting could justify an institution as cruel and inhumane as slavery. Can't recall what mark I got on that paper. As an adult I found out that my Dad went to the school and discussed his concerns with the teacher. Apparently he did that from time to time but we were not aware of it.

That was the extent of my education about Black people in Canadian schools.
I have not bought into <span style="font-weight: bold">any</span> of the garbage conveyed through the Canadian school system and in Canadian society about Black people. The programming and brainwashing did not take as my thinking is opposite to the garbage that the school system tried to shove down our throats. Clearly I did not drink the red and white Koolakd So I am certified 100% Koolaid free.

But I digress..this is a WHOLE other discusion. We would need to start a brand new discussion to go into this.

[Tropicana]

Re: As there is so much to say about Hugh Shearer..

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tropicana</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <span style="font-weight: bold"> Not one of the 21 families dominating the economy was of African descent</span> </div></div>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tuff Gong</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> So what is not as if they stole what they had.
Most of them started selling on handcarts before they had stores. </div></div>

I think you are thinking of the Syrians. The Jews have been in Jamaica much longer.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
The ex-Slaves got the land. The indentured servants saw a need and filled it.

Saint Michael Manley was hypocrite too. Many of the so-called 21 Families were his financial and even political backers. Today their names are stronger than ever.
When you destroy an economy on Oligarchs prosper. </div></div>

I am not saying that the 21 familes didn't work hard. As Black people we also worked our tails off but were not afforded certain opporutnities if we did not pass the brown paper bag test that Dr. Dudd has educated us about many times.

Black families had to migrate in pursuit of educational and employment opportunities and this has brought about a whole host of other problems.

[Tuff Gong]

Re: As there is so much to say about Hugh Shearer..

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tropicana</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think you are thinking of the Syrians. The Jews have been in Jamaica much longer.</div></div>
No and even if this was so, that is unimportant.

[Tuff Gong]

Re: As there is so much to say about Hugh Shearer..

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tropicana</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am not saying that the 21 familes didn't work hard. As Black people we also worked our tails off but were not afforded certain opporutnities if we did not pass the brown paper bag test that Dr. Dudd has educated us about many times </div></div>

You just killed your entire post when you mention<span style="font-weight: bold"> Dr. Dudd</span> and<span style="font-weight: bold"> Educate</span> in the same sentance,

[RichD]

Re: As there is so much to say about Hugh Shearer..

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tropicana</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

I am not saying that the 21 familes didn't work hard. As Black people we also worked our tails off but were not afforded certain opporutnities if we did not pass the brown paper bag test that Dr. Dudd has educated us about many times.

</div></div>

i don't think the hotel front office or working in a bank was the route to the kind of power and influence they talking about.

[Tuff Gong]

Re: As there is so much to say about Hugh Shearer..

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RichD</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tropicana</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

I am not saying that the 21 familes didn't work hard. As Black people we also worked our tails off but were not afforded certain opporutnities if we did not pass the brown paper bag test that Dr. Dudd has educated us about many times.

</div></div>

i don't think the hotel front office or working in a bank was the route to the kind of power and influence they talking about. </div></div>
Right there is either an conscious or unconscious attempt to conflate and confuse.
While Mr. Issa was setting up shop some others were fighting over a hotel front desk job. Most of the Interviewers were very ikely upper class dark-skinned folks busy keeping their own equally dark-skinned compatriots from eating a food.

Mr. Issa had the power of money and family.
The Dark skinned Manager held the power of life and death over his poor brethren.
Yet above it was the elected Politicians, none of whom was named Issa, but was possibly related to Issa, the black manager and the poor Jamaican fighting for the front-desk job.

The question is how was Walter Rodney going to help in this scenario ......who was the enemy? Mr. Issa who risked his capital or the black manager and the politician who were keeping their black brothers out of the pot?

[makabush]

Re: As there is so much to say about Hugh Shearer..

All I know is moving to foreign breeds madness. Even in the 60-70s, many of the black-nationalists who wanted to kick the non-blacks out of power were migrants who had experienced racism abroad and then comeback to free the black people still in yard.

Question is: You had a bad experience with whites in foreign. Why do you come back to forgotten yard and try to take out those hurt feelings on us? Once, again the logical thing to do would have been to fight the system in Canada, USA, etc... But no, Jamaica seemed the easier target for social reconstruction...

[Tropicana]

Re: As there is so much to say about Hugh Shearer..

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tuff Gong</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

You just killed your entire post when you mention<span style="font-weight: bold"> Dr. Dudd</span> and<span style="font-weight: bold"> Educate</span> in the same sentance, </div></div>

[Tropicana]

Re: As there is so much to say about Hugh Shearer..

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RichD</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tropicana</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

I am not saying that the 21 familes didn't work hard. As Black people we also worked our tails off but were not afforded certain opporutnities if we did not pass the brown paper bag test that Dr. Dudd has educated us about many times.

</div></div>

i don't think the hotel front office or working in a bank was the route to the kind of power and influence they talking about. </div></div>

Exactly....and there was a time when you couldn't even get the post of hotel front office clerk or bank teller unless you passed the brown paper bag test. Opportunities were very limited. I heard that Black people were not even allowed into the Myrtle Bank hotel. What a disgrace!

[makabush]

Re: As there is so much to say about Hugh Shearer..

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tropicana</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RichD</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tropicana</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

I am not saying that the 21 familes didn't work hard. As Black people we also worked our tails off but were not afforded certain opporutnities if we did not pass the brown paper bag test that Dr. Dudd has educated us about many times.

</div></div>

i don't think the hotel front office or working in a bank was the route to the kind of power and influence they talking about. </div></div>

Exactly....and there was a time when you couldn't even get the post of hotel front office clerk or bank teller unless you passed the brown paper bag test. Opportunities were very limited. I heard that Black people were not even allowed into the Myrtle Bank hotel. What a disgrace! </div></div>

Yeah man. Standards of beauty are changing. It's good to see people are finally seeing black people can be just a beautiful as other races.

But strangely enough, you run into that same foolishness in America. I have been told of situations where white people would rather wait in line to talk to a brownin than talk to a black teller.

[Tropicana]

Re: As there is so much to say about Hugh Shearer..

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: makabush</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> All I know is moving to foreign breeds madness. Even in the 60-70s, many of the black-nationalists who wanted to kick the non-blacks out of power were migrants who had experienced racism abroad and then comeback to free the black people still in yard. </div></div>

Many Black Jamaicans went abroad for access to educational opportunities. Some returned to Jamaica, others returned to Jamaica to live but not visit. Just because someone studies abroad does not mean that they are not Jamaican. If there were more opportunities at home, there would not have been so much migration.

It's not a question of returning home to free black people a yard. Yes people go overseas and get really hurt. Some of the puss eye one dem who did ting dem White had a rude awakening. When they return home and the disparties are glaring.

As for those of us who were raised abroad. Think how much it hurts when you are treated like garbage by White folks abroad and you reutrn home and White man is king. it's not easy to take.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: makabush</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Question is: You had a bad experience with whites in foreign. Why do you come back to<span style="font-weight: bold"> forgotten yard </span>
</div></div>


This I will not accept. Few Black Jamaicans turn their back on Jamaica. In fact, in some years, remittances from Jamaicans abroad to their families represent some of the highest sources of foreign exchanges for Jamaica...so don't even think of going there.


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: makabush</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> and try to take out those hurt feelings on us? </div></div> Again I don't see it that wy. many of us make a point of letting peopel know the realizities of living inthe US or Canada whenever we return home. Others want to svave face and pretned everything is fine.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: makabush</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Once, again the logical thing to do would have been to fight the system in Canada, USA, etc... But no, Jamaica seemed the easier target for social reconstruction... </div></div>

Many of us can trace our roots in Jamaica back to the 1700s or early 1800s . We have every bit as much of a claim to Jamaica as those who have not been forced to look elsewhere for opportunities. Do you think we just <span style="font-weight: bold">LOVE</span> jumping over snow banks, shoveling driveways and scraping snow off cars? Give me a break!

[Tropicana]

Re: As there is so much to say about Hugh Shearer..

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: makabush</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

But strangely enough, you run into that same foolishness in America. I have been told of situations where white people would rather wait in line to talk to a brownin than talk to a black teller. </div></div>

Trust me some don't even want to sit beside a Black person on the subway. I have heard some Jamaican males talk about people especially older white women waiting for the next elevator.

I was at a conference and a guy told me he went to take the elevator at a hotel in Orlando. A White woman (older was waiting). When he came, she went back to her room. He suspected what was going on and sure enough...after a while she was peeking out of her room to see if he was still there. He said Boo! She did fly back inna her room. He laughed and took the next elevator.

But again we digress.

Bottom line is there were and are inequities at home. Walter Rodney tried to address the. We may not agree with all of his methods or philosophies but Hugh Shearer did seem to be overreacting.

Still I am learning from this discussion that he was not entirely bad and he made a number of positive contributions to Jamaica.

By the way, who owned Mrytle Bank and Doctor's Cave Hotel. I hear Black peole were not allowed on Doctor's Cave beach either. When did this change? Was it before during or after the Shearer era?

[makabush]

Re: As there is so much to say about Hugh Shearer..

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tropicana</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
By the way, who owned Mrytle Bank and Doctor's Cave Hotel. I hear Black peole were not allowed on Doctor's Cave beach either. When did this change? Was it before during or after the Shearer era? </div></div>

Way before shearer and Independence. Myrtle Bank was an English and American owned hotel until Issa took over. After Issa took over, the segregation was relaxed. You can see a good discussion of the race issue at that particular hotel in the following book (some pages missing) : An Eye for the Tropics

Apparently, it was the American presence (and ownership) in the hotel that caused the racial exclusivity. and that also spilled over into the clerk issue.

[Tropicana]

Re: As there is so much to say about Hugh Shearer..

Thanks. Another important point and I am glad you raised this.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: makabush</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Yeah man. Standards of beauty are changing. It's good to see people are finally seeing black people can be just a beautiful as other races. </div></div>

I have been mocked on here for bringing up these issues but marriage prospects do have a direct impact on the economic health of a family and the economic opportunities that one can provide for their children. That is why I always lick out when I see guys rejecting women who are their equals in terms of educational and professional achievement and taking up with blonde trailer trash. If that sounds elitist....so be it. The marriages often don't work ant the money goes to the White woman.

When it comes to Jamaicans, you see rich guys marrying White women when they would not even look at the equivalent women if they were Black and in Jamaica. Why are the Jamaican Black women not good enough for them but White women of ANY background considered to be suitable prospects? Why does a blonde cocktial waitress trump a Black Phd?

So, generation after generation. you see wealth concentrated in the hands of a few and this group rarely marries Black Jamaican women.

While we are at it, since you raised it, you bet it hurts to experience recjection abroad and see White women living high on the hog in Jamaica married to Jamaican rich guys. There I said it.