Real Jamaican Apartheid...

[R_C]

Re: Real Jamaican Apartheid...

Tropicana, not one Jamaican politician, none, in recent memory, has had the courage to say what you have said in this thread even though they damn well know that unbridled breeding is incompatible with the success of any social programs or economic progress. It is the elephant in the room and NO ONE in government talks about it. Jamaica's infrastructure is sagging and creaking under the weight of debt and breeding.

[Tropicana]

Re: Real Jamaican Apartheid...

No one says it because they know they will be attacked.

Some of the things I saw in Jamaica sickened my stomach. I had the experience while working in Jamaica of seeing children brought into hospital weighing less than their birth weight while their mothers just kept having out their lot. When you've watched a child die for malnutrition while his father sits in jail for having sex with an under age girl (not his mother someone else), something inside you dies and you are never the same.

I don't speak of these things often but that doesn't mean that I've forgotten. I try not to think about them....but sometimes, we need to cut through the crap and speak the truth even though people may not like it.

No one has ever died from not having sex. If you don't want the responsibility of providing for kids, stop have sex or at least have the decency to use protection. It's not that hard. It is so unfair to the children who must compete for the scarce resources in the society.

[Gen]

Re: Real Jamaican Apartheid...

anyone remember the campaign back in the day from family planning board ? I still remember it to this day. mek a see if a find anyting pan it

"two is better than too many" ??

[Tropicana]

Re: Real Jamaican Apartheid...

I do. Those campaigns are vividly etched in my mind and they have been used as models for other countries. Google Panther condoms, you'll find the campaign that was started in Jamaica has been used all over the world.

In fact it's worth starting a thread about this.

[Gen]

Re: Real Jamaican Apartheid...

<span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-size: 14pt">Two still better than too many - Principals advocate campaign to address overcrowded classrooms</span></span>

Published: Sunday | August 8, 2010
Tyrone Reid, Sunday Gleaner Reporter


<span style="font-weight: bold">President of the Jamaica Association of Principals of Secondary Schools, Sharon Reid, is calling for the implementation of a national family-planning policy as a long-term solution for the overcrowding in the nation's classrooms.</span>

Reid believes this intervention is needed because Jamaicans are having too many children.

<span style="font-weight: bold">She also is of the view that the shortage of high-school places across Jamaica would be greatly assisted by a proper family-planning programme like the 'two is better than too many'campaign that started in the 1970s.</span>

&quot;You know one of the biggest problems we have? We have too many children to educate in this nation,&quot; said Reid, who is the principal of St Andrew High School For Girls.

&quot;What happened to the family-planning programme?&quot; she questioned.

In seeking to justify her position, Reid argued that the country needs to take a long, hard look at how many children the nation can adequately afford to raise.

<span style="font-weight: bold">&quot;We have too many children in Jamaica who are having a little sugar and water for their breakfast,&quot; Reid lamented, as she pointed out that the breakfast served at schools as part of their welfare programmes was the only meal of the day for many children.</span>

Better planning needed

Reid was supported by Albert Corcho, principal of Tarrant High School and president of the Association of Principals and Vice-Principals.

He told The Sunday Gleaner that school heads are officially calling for a family-planning campaign as a means of addressing the high student-to-teacher ratio.

&quot;The principals are calling for this. There must be a family-planning programme going forward,&quot; Corcho said.

<span style="font-weight: bold">However, Dianne Thomas, director of outreach programmes at the National Family Planning Board, disagreed with the educators.</span>

&quot;What we have is working, and working admirably,&quot; said Thomas in reference to the country's national family-planning programme.

Thomas also argued that the gains in contraceptive prevalence, which has the benefit of delaying pregnancy, belied the claims being made by the educators.

She pointed out that the 'two is better than too many' campaign of the 1970s was spawned by the fact that many women were having six or seven children.

<span style="font-weight: bold">&quot;The fertility rate has reduced significantly to about 2.5 children,&quot; said Thomas,</span> <span style="font-weight: bold">as she boasted that the country's family-planning programme was doing exceedingly well. She pointed out that other countries had even expressed a desire to model the Jamaican programme.</span>

The Planning Institute of Jamaica's (PIOJ's) 1992 National Population Policy states that the target was to ensure that the population did not exceed the number of persons that could be supported at a satisfactory standard of living.

&quot;In order to achieve this, the population should have an average growth rate of below 0.8 per cent per annum over the next three decades. On this basis, the population will not exceed 2.7 million by the year 2000, or 3.0 million by the year 2020.

&quot;This growth rate is in keeping with a downward trend to our ultimate goal of zero population growth,&quot; read a section of the PIOJ's national population policy statement.

The latest figures show that the country is on track to meet the PIOJ's plan, as the current population estimate is 2.7 million.

According to the Statistical Institute of Jamaica, the 10-14 and 15-19 age groups account for little more than 526,000 of the current population.

Still, the Reverend Dr Gordon Cowan, principal of Knox College in Clarendon, concurred with the views expressed by his colleagues. According to Cowan, too many persons are having children too young.

&quot;Indeed, a serious family-planning programme (is needed). And, this is a national programme ... not politics business now,&quot; he said.

source

[R_C]

Re: Real Jamaican Apartheid...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gen</div><div class="ubbcode-body">anyone remember the campaign back in the day from family planning board ? I still remember it to this day. mek a see if a find anyting pan it

&quot;two is better than too many&quot; ?? </div></div>

Yes Gen. I remember the graffiti too. It said: &quot;Family Planning Is a Plan to Kill Black People&quot;.

[Gen]

Re: Real Jamaican Apartheid...

and the Pearl contraceptive i remeber those ads

anyhoo, apparently 2.5 is the average today, according to stats.

[Tropicana]

Re: Real Jamaican Apartheid...

Yes there has been an improvement overall. I have started a new thread.

http://www.jamaicans.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&amp;Number=1324171

Still some areas continue in deplorable conditions *sigh* and some families in the poorest areas continue to have out dem lot:

Majesty Gardens And Tivoli Gardens

http://jamaica-gleaner.com/gleaner/20120603/focus/focus8.html

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Majesty Gardens has been ranked among Jamaica's poorest communities. Comprising mostly board dwellings, its squalid conditions rob residents of their dignity, forcing the more impoverished to use nearby gullies, filled with debris and flies, as makeshift bathrooms.

Two of the most destructive problems facing these ravaged inner-city communities struggling with reverse development were raised in the tear-drenched encounter between Mama P and Kelcy-Ann Wynter. Ms Wynter herself raised one and the MP/prime minister the other. Ms Wynter pointed out the division of the community, &quot;up the top is Majesty Gardens and down the bottom is<span style="font-weight: bold"> 'Back To'. I am from 'Back To'.&quot; </span>These divisions have led to countless senseless tribal conflicts taking lives, destroying property, and reversing development.

The MP/PM pointed out that construction on the housing scheme was stopped when her People's National Party (PNP) lost the 2007 general election. &quot;Over four years ago we started the housing scheme, and four years ago it came to a stop. Today, I am here to tell you that we signed a contract for the completion of those houses, and after the completion, the building of the phase-two houses,&quot; said Miller to loud applause at the community meeting. This other dimension of political tribalism, of starving opponents and feeding supporters has, more than anything, contributed to the construction of the garrisons with their vast destructive capabilities.

Entering the community with the ICHP, Gleaner reporter Tyrone Reid says, &quot;A foul odour had a strong grip on some sections of the community, and it was clear why Kelcy-Ann Wynter was moved to tears as she explained her depressing situation to her member of parliament, Prime Minister Portia Simpson Miller, just over one week ago. Members of our news team had to watch their every step as they walked through one section of the community. It was clear that Majesty Gardens is desperately in need of garbage receptacles, as rubbish is being dumped everywhere.

&quot;The living situation gets worse as you go deeper into the belly of the community. Adults and children were seen bathing in the open.

The community is plagued with improper and inadequate sewage facilities and a plethora of other social and structural ills. Wild pigs and stray dogs were also seen in the community, relying on the steady flow of garbage for their food.&quot;

Zinc-fence mentality

Matriarch Mama Joyce was wise and solid in her analysis of the roots of some of the problems.

&quot;It is very bad. The zinc-fence mentality ... . We would like to live up. It name a Garden, but not looking like one now,&quot; lamented the 73-year-old.

She believes the moral fibre of the community has disintegrated in step with its physical infrastructure. &quot;The discipline has fallen ... . We woulda like fi see yah so nice.&quot;</div></div>

I remember my mother talking about teaching at Cockburn Pen School and some of the children saying they were from Backto. I didn't realize that area still went by that name. I'll have to tell her. Based on what she has told me, conditions have always been bad in that area.

[R_C]

Re: Real Jamaican Apartheid...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">(President of the Jamaica Association of Principals of Secondary Schools) Sharon Reid argued that the country needs to take a long, hard look at how many children the nation can adequately afford to raise.&quot;We have too many children in Jamaica who are having a little sugar and water for their breakfast,&quot; Reid lamented, as she pointed out that the breakfast served at schools as part of their welfare programmes was the only meal of the day for many children.</div></div>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Dianne Thomas, director of outreach programmes at the National Family Planning Board, disagreed with the educators.&quot;What we have is working, and working admirably,&quot;</div></div>

Thus we have the disconnect between statistics and the reality on the ground.

[jah_yout]

Re: Real Jamaican Apartheid...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tropicana</div><div class="ubbcode-body">No one says it because they know they will be attacked.

Some of the things I saw in Jamaica sickened my stomach. I had the experience while working in Jamaica of seeing children brought into hospital weighing less than their birth weight while their mothers just kept having out their lot. When you've watched a child die for malnutrition while his father sits in jail for having sex with an under age girl (not his mother someone else), something inside you dies and you are never the same.

I don't speak of these things often but that doesn't mean that I've forgotten. I try not to think about them....but sometimes, we need to cut through the crap and speak the truth even though people may not like it.

No one has ever died from not having sex. If you don't want the responsibility of providing for kids, stop have sex or at least have the decency to use protection. It's not that hard. It is so unfair to the children who must compete for the scarce resources in the society.
</div></div>


maybe it would be better if jamaica outlaws children...
i really don't think jamaican people are having as many children as they did in my grandmother's time...

nothing can work in a corrupt, broken system that is based on the broken obsolete systems of the former mother country and the current superpower...

it is not the out of control breeding that is the main problem, but the absolute bankruptcy of jamaican leadership which is the real problem

[Wahalla]

Re: Real Jamaican Apartheid...

JY I agree with you familes are smaller, birth are lower, but more are surviving one of the effects of better hygiene nformation of the last 50 years ....PJ O'rouke made an interesting comment about those who advocate birth control who have ..&quot; It is not that the world is over populated, it populated by the wrong sort of people&quot;.... The population density of Bangladesh which is always termed as over populated is low than that of Holland.. No one says Holland is over populated...

Jamaica is not overpopulated... The concept of Malthusuian economics has proven to be a myth.. The economic model is that the middle class get weathlier and the poor have children...Look to india as to reduction of population growth... To lower population growth the only success is either what Indira Ghandi did which is sterlisation by force or what happened in the last 10 years economic growth twth which lowered the birth rate.... Like it or not being poor having children is a form of a pension....(China the same thing has happened the chinese are now talking about lack of population!)


We have a problem of educating the poor... But by shifting the blame onto the poor for having children thus their children gets badly educated making it their fault is lettimng our selves off... As we have done with our crime and drug issue it is the fault of the victim...

Since we have a lower birth rate than 75 years ago.... Then the other side of the paradgim is to let the poor die, the infant mortality rate... <span style="color: #FF0000">That is not acceptable.. </span>

Equally unacceptable in Jamaica is abortion, which is acceptable in one of our neighbours which has lower thebirth rate and increased the survival rate of children.. Cuba which educates its children....

Another aspectt is one that alot on here have a problem with, the class divide that is in eduction... The last but one administration had the greatest shift of wealth from poor Jamaicans to rich Jamaicans... (The debt market... Which reduced the income of workers but increased the wealth of those with money to invest).. This reduction of income.. The consequence is that the disposable income of the poor has been reduced ..

Here Thwaites makes a comment that placement in traditional high schools presents a socila strain on the poor.... There is a class divide... I know Tropi you worked hard and had the support and u educated ur son.. That is not to be scoffed at... and is priase worhthy... (Though ur sons inability to tell a dirty joke may be a social hinderance!)... But I have to ask did u and his father have a regular income ????

Not having a regular income is a hall mark of poverty in Jamaica... Not having a regular income does impact on paying the regular ancillary fees associated with education.... food clothes light....I have no exprience of sink communities.. (Sorry they are nto ghettos, they are sink communities where we have abononed the poor)

But my thesis is that we should have a thought for the children who failed to &quot;pass&quot; yes the attitude is still the same....

I await eddies Seagas analysis of the results to get some truth.. He does a peice in the papers every year looking at this question....

Thwaites Wary Of Social Gaps In Schools
Published: Friday | June 22, 2012 2 Comments

Minister of Education Ronald Thwaites addresses a Gleaner Editors' Forum while Jean Hastings, programme director in the education transformation programme, looks on. Also pictured is Dr Franklin Johnson, senior adviser to the minister. - Gladstone Taylor/Photographer
Gary Spaulding, Senior Gleaner Writer

Education Minister Ronald Thwaites has expressed concern at what he characterises as the &quot;social chasm&quot; that manifests itself at some high-end educational institutions attended by the bulk of students from affluent families.

Thwaites yesterday openly lamented the dilemmas faced by students from inner-city communities who have gained places at schools such as Campion College and Immaculate Conception High School.

&quot;We going to have to make sure that the social chasm between Goodwin Park and Campion College is bridged,&quot; he declared. &quot;So many of our children from the inner city who do very well and go there experience hopeless social problems.&quot;

Thwaites said these are students who are unable to afford the cost of social functions or are unable to travel on vacations overseas, eat expensive lunches and wear high-priced, name brand outfits.

&quot;We have to be so careful of these realities as Jamaica is a highly divided country,&quot; he declared.

&quot;Education and language very often divide as race once did.&quot;

After school placements and Grade Six Achievement Test (GSAT) results were released on Wednesday, Sts Peter and Paul Prep principal Karen Siyanbola, as well as officials from other schools, hinted at a similar sentiment about the clash of cultures.

&quot;I know the ministry is trying and they will say all our schools are viable but we have to be realistic,&quot; she had said. &quot;The concern for parents is not so much the academic standard of the school but the social fabric.&quot;

Siyanbola was reacting to news that some of her students were being sent to schools such as Tarrant High and Kingston Technical, which she noted were all outside of their geographical area.

Thwaites also noted he was concerned about the reactions of some parents such as one who was angry about her child being placed at a reputable traditional high schools, although her preferred choice of schools was Immaculate.

Injustice complaint

The mother, he noted, complained bitterly about the injustice in the system after her child was placed at St Andrew High School in the Corporate Area.

Both Thwaites and the permanent secretary in the education ministry, Grace McLean, have repeatedly stated that the 2012 GSAT results were higher than last year, rendering the placement system much more competitive.

Thwaites also warned that many dissatisfied parents who plan to seek transfers to the schools of their choice would be unsuccessful due to space constraints.

&quot;These attempts will not be very fruitful because schools can only take a certain number of students. Unless others do not take up their places, or if they have a very small percentage for their discretion, there simply isn't going to be the space.&quot;

[email protected]

[jah_yout]

Re: Real Jamaican Apartheid...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">JY I agree with you familes are smaller, birth are lower, but more are surviving one of the effects of better hygiene nformation of the last 50 years ....PJ O'rouke made an interesting comment about those who advocate birth control who have ..&quot; It is not that the world is over populated, it populated by the wrong sort of people&quot;.... The population density of Bangladesh which is always termed as over populated is low than that of Holland.. <span style="font-weight: bold">No one says Holland is over populated</span>...

Jamaica is not overpopulated...</div></div>

totally agree...
the &quot;overpopulation&quot; tag is a knee-jerk racist reaction to any- usually black or brown country-- doing bad economically;
<span style="font-style: italic">if only they would stop having babies all their problems would be solved</span>...it's absurd

[R_C]

Re: Real Jamaican Apartheid...

Why is there an inverse relationship between parental education level and household income on the one hand and the number of children that parents have ?

[Tropicana]

Re: Real Jamaican Apartheid...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jah_yout</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">JY I agree with you familes are smaller, birth are lower, but more are surviving one of the effects of better hygiene nformation of the last 50 years ....PJ O'rouke made an interesting comment about those who advocate birth control who have ..&quot; It is not that the world is over populated, it populated by the wrong sort of people&quot;.... The population density of Bangladesh which is always termed as over populated is low than that of Holland.. <span style="font-weight: bold">No one says Holland is over populated</span>...

Jamaica is not overpopulated...</div></div>

totally agree...
the &quot;overpopulation&quot; tag is a knee-jerk racist reaction to any- usually black or brown country-- doing bad economically;
<span style="font-style: italic">if only they would stop having babies all their problems would be solved</span>...it's absurd </div></div>

Holland has the economic resources that we simply don't have. PERIOD!!

[Tropicana]

Re: Real Jamaican Apartheid...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: R_C</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Why is there an inverse relationship between parental education level and household income on the one hand and the number of children that parents have ? </div></div>

You tell them RC.