Contraceptives used to double HIV spread in Africa

[franksterr]

Re: Contraceptives used to double HIV spread in Africa

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: R_C</div><div class="ubbcode-body">[quote=franksterr]...I recommend monogamy, and to refrain from sex with strangers, one night stands, and sex workers....in other words stick to people you know and have good reason to trust - hey its not a perfect world.

What evidence do you have that simply telling people to behave themselves has been an effective means of reducing the spread of the virus that causes AIDS ?</div></div>

First I do not know or think that HIV causes AIDS, nor do I believe AIDS is infectious.
Not just telling but educating.....education tends to change people.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: franksterr</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Skin to skin that is the way sex was meant to be done

Would you have sex with an HIV positive woman without wearing a condom ? </div></div>

I would not have sex with her wearing a condom.
but if she (god forbid) is My Woman yes skin to skin

[WitchyOoman]

Re: Contraceptives used to double HIV spread in Africa

I have never heard anyone say that anything except <span style="font-weight: bold">completely refraining from sexual activity</span> is <span style="font-weight: bold">100% foolproof against pregnancy and/or sexually transmitted diseases</span>. That's how I learned it, anyhow.
Do they teach differently in Africa?

That's ^ <span style="font-weight: bold">not</span> a smart-@$$ed query. It's a request for information, since I have not been there.


I agree that along with proper schooling, and access to good quality condoms (they certainly <span style="text-decoration: underline">do</span> vary in quality) and other forms of birth control, and access good quality medical care, that access to good quality drinking water and - most importantly - fair trade, are the most important things to Africa and her peoples.

But all of this ^ being true doesn't answer R_C's question, since it was essentially stated that condoms are harmful: <span style="font-weight: bold">What do you propose to replace those condoms with, franksterr, if you propose taking the condoms away, removing them from accessibility?</span>

[R_C]

Re: Contraceptives used to double HIV spread in Africa

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: franksterr</div><div class="ubbcode-body">First I do not know or think that HIV causes AIDS, nor do I believe AIDS is infectious.</div></div>

OK, sorry to have wasted your time.

[franksterr]

Re: Contraceptives used to double HIV spread in Africa

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: WitchyOoman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have never heard anyone say that anything except <span style="font-weight: bold">completely refraining from sexual activity</span> is <span style="font-weight: bold">100% foolproof against pregnancy and/or sexually transmitted diseases</span>. That's how I learned it, anyhow.
Do they teach differently in Africa?

That's ^ <span style="font-weight: bold">not</span> a smart-@$$ed query. It's a request for information, since I have not been there.


I agree that along with proper schooling, and access to good quality condoms (they certainly <span style="text-decoration: underline">do</span> vary in quality) and other forms of birth control, and access good quality medical care, that access to good quality drinking water and - most importantly - fair trade, are the most important things to Africa and her peoples.

But all of this ^ being true doesn't answer R_C's question, since it was essentially stated that condoms are harmful: <span style="font-weight: bold">What do you propose to replace those condoms with, franksterr, if you propose taking the condoms away, removing them from accessibility?</span> </div></div>

Condoms only gives you a false sense of protection or security.
Question can latex present a barrier to a virus?
All latex are porous to begin with, especially more so after a few minutes of vigorous abrasive action.
How many people know how to use a condom properly?
Do you know or can identify a good quality condom?
Is it possible that latex is an irritant or allergen? - that makes it easier for bodily fluids to mixed?

[WitchyOoman]

Re: Contraceptives used to double HIV spread in Africa

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: franksterr</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
First I do not know or think that HIV causes AIDS, nor do I believe AIDS is infectious.


I would not have sex with her wearing a condom.
but if she (god forbid) is My Woman yes skin to skin </div></div>
If that ^ is the prevalent attitude in Africa ..... then God help Africa and her peoples!

Because that's just ignorant. (not meaning to be nasty, using the word in it's original sense as &quot;uneducated&quot

AIDS and HIV are infectious - and ergo, contagious.
HIV (Human immunodeficiency virus) is one of the viruses (one of the Lentivirus family) that cause AIDS (acquired immunodeficiency syndrome).

<span style="font-style: italic">Here is the really dumbed-down version for non-medical/non-scientific types</span>: Sexual intercourse is the major method of transmission. HIV virus enters the human body's T-cells and macrophages via cell membranes. CD4 binding occurs. HIV RNA in injected into the body's cells. During transport, the HIV RNA binds to the body's cellular DNA. After this, replication and release occurs. You're now screwed. You now have full-blown HIV.


It's not a matter of whether or not you (or anyone else) believes it, franksterr; it's medical-scientific fact that occurs whether or not you believe it's happening.

If - God forbid! - you should get, say, bone cancer... you have bone cancer, whether you believe it or not... you still have bone cancer, and you will still suffer from that, and, if you don't get medical care, you will die from that bone cancer, even if you don't believe in bone cancer's existence.

[franksterr]

Re: Contraceptives used to double HIV spread in Africa

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: R_C</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: franksterr</div><div class="ubbcode-body">First I do not know or think that HIV causes AIDS, nor do I believe AIDS is infectious.</div></div>

OK, sorry to have wasted your time. </div></div>

No it was not a waste of time for me, a rather enjoyed it immensely, my only regret is that you seem unwilling to test my beliefs and opinions further, as you seem to made up your mind as to the veracity of my statement and possible my state of mind

[WitchyOoman]

Re: Contraceptives used to double HIV spread in Africa

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: R_C</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: franksterr</div><div class="ubbcode-body">First I do not know or think that HIV causes AIDS, nor do I believe AIDS is infectious.</div></div>

OK, sorry to have wasted your time. </div></div>


Guess maybe I should have said that ^

[franksterr]

Re: Contraceptives used to double HIV spread in Africa

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: WitchyOoman</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: franksterr</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
First I do not know or think that HIV causes AIDS, nor do I believe AIDS is infectious.


I would not have sex with her wearing a condom.
but if she (god forbid) is My Woman yes skin to skin </div></div>
If that ^ is the prevalent attitude in Africa ..... then God help Africa and her peoples!

Because that's just ignorant. (not meaning to be nasty, using the word in it's original sense as &quot;uneducated&quot

AIDS and HIV are infectious - and ergo, contagious.
HIV (Human immunodeficiency virus) is one of the viruses (one of the Lentivirus family) that cause AIDS (acquired immunodeficiency syndrome).

<span style="font-style: italic">Here is the really dumbed-down version for non-medical/non-scientific types</span>: Sexual intercourse is the major method of transmission. HIV virus enters the human body's T-cells and macrophages via cell membranes. CD4 binding occurs. HIV RNA in injected into the body's cells. During transport, the HIV RNA binds to the body's cellular DNA. After this, replication and release occurs. You're now screwed. You now have full-blown HIV.


It's not a matter of whether or not you (or anyone else) believes it, franksterr; it's medical-scientific fact that occurs whether or not you believe it's happening.

If - God forbid! - you should get, say, bone cancer... you have bone cancer, whether you believe it or not... you still have bone cancer, and you will still suffer from that, and, if you don't get medical care, you will die from that bone cancer, even if you don't believe in bone cancer's existence. </div></div>

First what I am saying is that I would not have sex with a strange woman whether or not she is HIV positive or with or without a condom....Thats just plain ignorant as you say.

Sadly the prevailing ideas about AIDS and HIV in Africa is exactly as you think.

What is meant by the word &quot;ACQUIRED&quot;?

[WitchyOoman]

Re: Contraceptives used to double HIV spread in Africa

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: franksterr</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Condoms only gives you a false sense of protection or security. <span style="color: #000099"><span style="font-weight: bold">B-S. Nice sound byte. But total B-S.</span></span>
Question can latex present a barrier to a virus? <span style="color: #000099"><span style="font-weight: bold">It has done so, ergo it must. Actions speak louder than argumentative words. It has done so, provably.</span></span>
All latex are porous to begin with, especially more so after a few minutes of vigorous abrasive action. <span style="color: #000099"><span style="font-weight: bold">And so? Again - it has been proven to work, ergo it works. No, it does not work 100% of the time. We have already established that. Move on.</span></span>
How many people know how to use a condom properly? <span style="color: #000099"><span style="font-weight: bold">See my comment below this quote.</span></span>
Do you know or can identify a good quality condom? <span style="color: #000099"><span style="font-weight: bold">Me, personally? You bet your winky <span style="text-decoration: underline">and</span> balls I can! What's the matter - can't you?!</span></span>
Is it possible that latex is an irritant or allergen? - that makes it easier for bodily fluids to mixed? <span style="color: #000099"><span style="font-weight: bold">Yes, of course, we all know that some people are allergic to latex. So let's let this, too, stand as &quot;already established&quot;, and let it alone. Move on.</span></span> </div></div>

<span style="color: #000099"><span style="font-weight: bold">Which part of ---</span></span>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: WitchyOoman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

I agree that<span style="font-size: 14pt"><span style="color: #000099"> <span style="font-weight: bold">along with proper schooling</span></span></span>, and [/b] </div></div>

<span style="color: #000099"><span style="font-weight: bold">did you miss??</span></span>

[WitchyOoman]

Re: Contraceptives used to double HIV spread in Africa

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: franksterr</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: R_C</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: franksterr</div><div class="ubbcode-body">First I do not know or think that HIV causes AIDS, nor do I believe AIDS is infectious.</div></div>

OK, sorry to have wasted your time. </div></div>

No it was not a waste of time for me, a rather enjoyed it immensely, my only regret is that you seem unwilling to test my beliefs and opinions further, as you seem to made up your mind as to the veracity of my statement and possible my state of mind </div></div>
R_C... franksterr likes to argue for the sake of argument. Watch his interactions with me and see what I mean.

Just don't ask me why I do it... coz I sure as hell can't tell you that! I just don't know.
Maybe I'm stupid or something.

I always end with the feeling that nothing was accomplished, but franksterr always assures me that plenty was accomplished. &lt;----- If that's not the ultimate definition of stupidity (for <span style="font-weight: bold">me</span>), then I don't know what is! *shakiing my head in utter disbelief that I'm about to do this once again*





<span style="font-style: italic">Mother Mary, please help me! Bless me with your guidance, and help me to figure out how best to proceed with love and patience here. I beseech you, Mother, in your infinite loving kindness, to help me to do the right thing, as a Judeo-Christian woman who ought to show loving kindness and patience with all people with whom I come into contact. Thank you, Mother!</span>

[Wahalla]

Re: Contraceptives used to double HIV spread in Africa

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: R_C</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Wahalla</div><div class="ubbcode-body">As far as I am aware condoms has never been touted by doctors as a perfect prevention tool....</div></div>

I'm not sure who is suggesting that it is. I certainly have not. I'm simply trying to find out what those who object to condom use as a means of reducing the spread of the virus that causes AIDS would replace them with.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Wahalla</div><div class="ubbcode-body">...bombarding africa with condoms in isolation.</div></div>

Again, if you are directing this comment at me, please note that I have not suggested anything of the sort.

</div></div>

not suggesting it to you... I note u did not suggest anything of the sort.. Codomn work as a preventative measure. So does circumscription ... Monogamy and abstaince also has its place.... Good common sense strategies...

Uganda had a successful local aids reduction strategy... that incorperated use of condoms, education, health care. .. And u know that it started to fail once they began to get more aid an influence from the US.. After Musivenai became a born again christian and did a just say &quot; no policy&quot;..

The only alternative to condoms seems to be no sex till u are marriried.. then sex with that person alone.. That is never going to work!!!!!

[WitchyOoman]

Re: Contraceptives used to double HIV spread in Africa

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: franksterr</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
First what I am saying is that I would not have sex with a strange woman whether or not she is HIV positive or with or without a condom....Thats just plain ignorant as you say.</div></div>
OK. Thank you, Jesus! We aren't about to lose franksterr to such stupidity as I feared, after all! Thank you!! I would miss him too much.

One of those rare instances when we agree, franksterr... things are looking up today!


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: franksterr</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Sadly the prevailing ideas about AIDS and HIV in Africa is exactly as you think.</div></div>
Jesus God!! May God have mercy on Africa and Africans! (more than He appears to be having now)

I obviously need to pray more for Africa. And to get more people I know who pray to pray more for Africa. I'm not joking or saying this lightly. OMG!

What will it take - do you think, franksterr - to make Africans wake up and smell the proverbial coffee? (ie - learn the truth and take better care to not get pregnant when they don't want babies, and to not get HIV or AIDS - or a whole host of other sexually transmitted STDs?)

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: franksterr</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
What is meant by the word &quot;ACQUIRED&quot;? </div></div>
Uh... Let me go back and find the word, and see how and where I used it, so I can tell you what context I used it in, okay? BRB

[franksterr]

Re: Contraceptives used to double HIV spread in Africa

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: WitchyOoman</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: franksterr</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Condoms only gives you a false sense of protection or security. <span style="color: #000099"><span style="font-weight: bold">B-S. Nice sound byte. But total B-S.</span></span>
Question can latex present a barrier to a virus? <span style="color: #000099"><span style="font-weight: bold">It has done so, ergo it must. Actions speak louder than argumentative words. It has done so, provably.</span></span>
All latex are porous to begin with, especially more so after a few minutes of vigorous abrasive action. <span style="color: #000099"><span style="font-weight: bold">And so? Again - it has been proven to work, ergo it works. No, it does not work 100% of the time. We have already established that. Move on.</span></span>
How many people know how to use a condom properly? <span style="color: #000099"><span style="font-weight: bold">See my comment below this quote.</span></span>
Do you know or can identify a good quality condom? <span style="color: #000099"><span style="font-weight: bold">Me, personally? You bet your winky <span style="text-decoration: underline">and</span> balls I can! What's the matter - can't you?!</span></span>
Is it possible that latex is an irritant or allergen? - that makes it easier for bodily fluids to mixed? <span style="color: #000099"><span style="font-weight: bold">Yes, of course, we all know that some people are allergic to latex. So let's let this, too, stand as &quot;already established&quot;, and let it alone. Move on.</span></span> </div></div>

<span style="color: #000099"><span style="font-weight: bold">Which part of ---</span></span>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: WitchyOoman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

I agree that<span style="font-size: 14pt"><span style="color: #000099"> <span style="font-weight: bold">along with proper schooling</span></span></span>, and [/b] </div></div>

<span style="color: #000099"><span style="font-weight: bold">did you miss??</span></span> </div></div>

Witchypoo take it easy, these things are supposed to be fun and entertaining if not informing.
Did you catch the opening statement where Contraceptive use double the spread of HIV in Africa......if that be true how can you say it is effective? Now with talking about a virus not a germ or cellular organism as most STD are.

Can you provide any stats on the efficaciousness of condoms?

How do you identify a good condom?
Do you use a condom everytime you have sex?
Do you know how old the condom you are using is?
Do you know that the manufacture was done properly? - that one you cant.

[franksterr]

Re: Contraceptives used to double HIV spread in Africa

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: WitchyOoman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">




Sadly the prevailing ideas about AIDS and HIV in Africa is exactly as you think.
Jesus God!! May God have mercy on Africa and Africans! (more than He appears to be having now)

I obviously need to pray more for Africa. And to get more people I know who pray to pray more for Africa. I'm not joking or saying this lightly. OMG!

What will it take - do you think, franksterr - to make Africans wake up and smell the proverbial coffee? (ie - learn the truth and take better care to not get pregnant when they don't want babies, and to not get HIV or AIDS - or a whole host of other sexually transmitted STDs?)</div></div>

No NO they think about AIDS like you do, not like I do, which is regretable. They believe it is infectious and caused by HIV

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: franksterr</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
What is meant by the word &quot;ACQUIRED&quot;?
Uh... Let me go back and find the word, and see how and where I used it, so I can tell you what context I used it in, okay? BRB </div></div>

No just tell me all the meaning of that word....why did they not use infectious?

[WitchyOoman]

Re: Contraceptives used to double HIV spread in Africa

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: franksterr</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
What is meant by the word &quot;ACQUIRED&quot;? </div></div>
D'you mean as in <span style="font-weight: bold">AIDS (acquired immunodeficiency syndrome)</span>?

It means exactly what it says, but I'll break it down to simpler.

immuno / deficiency = inability or lack of ability (deficiency) of one's body to fight off diseases (immune system, immuno-)

syndrome = the association of a number of recognizable symptoms

acquired = not inherited (not genetic), not present at birth (not congenital), but developed after birth

So... <span style="font-weight: bold">AIDS - Acquired Immunodeficiency Syndrome</span> - is <span style="font-weight: bold">non-genetic, non-congenital, immunodeficiency (inability of the human body to fight off diseases) syndrome</span> (ie - it's <span style="font-weight: bold">an association of similar diseases</span> that has the same outcome - <span style="font-weight: bold">inability of one's body to ward or fight off disease</span>).