Oscar Pistorius shoots and kills girlfriend by accident

[Yuriatin]

Yes Rich - agreed.

Unless I'm misunderstanding Trop's post - what does having so much to lose have to do with the matter?

Both prince and pauper commit crimes large and small.

why do you think he has more to lose than other murderers?

When Jovan Belcher shot Kasandra Perkins he had nothing to lose?

[Tropicana]

why do you think he has more to lose than other murderers?

When Jovan Belcher shot Kasandra Perkins he had nothing to lose?

Who the heck is Jovan Belcher?

Hello, he is now worth US$5million and he is not stupid. He knows that the the US$2million per year contracts with Nike and the sunglasses company would be in jeoprady if he got in trouble so I just don't believe he would have blown all of that.

[Tropicana]

Yes Rich - agreed.

Unless I'm misunderstanding Trop's post - what does having so much to lose have to do with the matter?

Both prince and pauper commit crimes large and small.

Are you kidding me? He has worked super hard and overcome obstacles most of us can't even imagine to get where he is today. I don't think he would just throw that away. What would be the motive?

I wasn't there so I don't know if he is innocent or guilty though I am inclined to believe it was an accident.

As I asked before, why is everyone assuming he is guilty and getting a break? Is it because he is White you make that assumption?

[Tropicana]

Good point was brought up by the judge.

It seems like she took her cell phone into the bathroom with her but no mention of if she made a call for help. I guess she could have grabbed it to check emails, tweets or received text while sitting on the toilet but it seems like strange behavior to be doing that at 3am.

Also, why LOCK the inner bathroom door if it is just the two of you in the house? They were in an intimate relationship! Was she that afraid of him walking in to see her sitting on the toilet?

He is guilty as sin but ultimately will be found not guilty!

OJ trial part 2!

On what basis do you say that.

If she took her cell phone into the bathroom, she would have called for help if in danger. Also what is so strange about locking the bathroom door. Out of habit I even do it if I am home alone.

[Tropicana]

Man, this must just feel horrible to be going through your darkest hour and have all these flash bulbs going off.

After four days of combative hearings, a South African magistrate on Friday granted bail for Oscar Pistorius, the double amputee track star accused of murdering his girlfriend, in a case that has horrified and fascinated the nation and much of the world.

Magistrate Desmond Nair announced the decision after impassioned final arguments from the defense and the prosecution in Courtroom C of the Pretoria Magistrate’s Court.
The prosecution claims that Mr. Pistorius gunned down his girlfriend, Reeva Steenkamp, 29, a model and law school graduate, on Feb. 14 after she locked herself in a small bathroom in his sprawling home in a gated complex here. Mr. Pistorius, 26, says he mistook Ms. Steenkamp for a burglar, and expressed deep anguish at her death.
The prosecution had argued that Mr. Pistorius should not get bail because he could flee the country and had a history of violence. But Magistrate Nair rejected these arguments, saying he did not represent a flight risk and was not likely to interfere with state witnesses.
“The accused has made a case to be released on bail,” he concluded, while the prosecution had not established a case for detaining him, he said. A supporter of Mr. Pistorius in the packed courtroom shouted, “Yes!”
Magistrate Nair set bail at one million rand, about $112,000, an unusually high amount for a murder trial in South Africa, and ordered a series of conditions before the case was adjourned to June 4. Mr. Pistorius was told to relinquish firearms and passports and to avoid his home, which is now declared a crime scene.
Mr. Pistorius was also told that he could not make contact with witnesses, leave the Pretoria area without official permission or use drugs or alcohol while the trial is pending. He was instructed to report to a police station twice a week.
Arnold Pistorius, an uncle who has acted as a family spokesman, told reporters, “We are relieved by the fact that Oscar got bail today, but at the same time, we are in mourning for Reeva Steenkamp and her family.”
But Kim Myers, a friend of Ms. Steenkamp, said: “I think it is important to remember that someone lost their life. We trust and hope that justice will prevail.”
Before announcing his ruling, the magistrate recounted the four days of conflicting arguments by defense and prosecution lawyers.
Magistrate Nair sharply questioned Mr. Pistorius’s account of what happened the night Ms. Steenkamp died, asking why he had fired into the bathroom door without asking who was there, why he had not seen that Ms. Steenkamp was not in the bed beside him when he arose to check out a strange noise, and why he had not fled rather than confront an intruder. These questions are likely to be central to the murder trial.
However, Magistrate Nair also took particular issue with the testimony and actions of the prosecution’s lead investigator, Detective Warrant Officer Hilton Botha, who has since been removed from the case, saying the officer made “several errors and concessions” and “blundered” in gathering evidence.
“It is his evidence that may have been tarnished by cross-examination, not the state case,” he said.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/23/world/africa/oscar-pistorius-bail-hearing.html

[Tropicana]

the judge made that call ..i didn't. i was just citing the legal/lawyerly justification.

but i think with his high profile he might be easy to monitor

for the next little while he will not be able to step out into the sunlight without camera on him

You have a point and this article stresses this ..."too famous to run"...he certainly is not going to just blend into the scenery anywhere.

A South African court granted bail on Friday to Oscar Pistorius, charged with the murder of his girlfriend on Valentine's Day, after his lawyers successfully argued the "Blade Runner" was too famous to flee justice.
The decision by Magistrate Desmond Nair drew cheers from the Paralympics star's family and supporters. Pistorius himself was unmoved, in marked contrast to the week-long hearing, when he repeatedly broke down in tears.
Nair set bail at 1 million rand ($113,000) and postponed the case until June 4. Pistorius would be released only when the court received 100,000 rand in cash, he added.
Less than an hour later, a silver Land Rover left the court compound, Pistorius visible through the tinted windows sitting in the back seat in the dark suit and tie he wore in court.
The car then sped off through the streets of the capital, pursued by members of the media on motorcycles, before it entered his uncle Arnold's home in the plush Pretoria suburb of Waterkloof.
At least five private security guards stood outside the concrete walls, keeping reporters at bay.
Under the terms of his bail, Pistorius, 26, was also ordered to hand over firearms and his two South African passports, avoid his home and all witnesses, report to a police station twice a week and abstain from drinking alcohol.
The decision followed a week of dramatic testimony about how the athlete shot dead model and law graduate Reeva Steenkamp at his luxury home near Pretoria in the early hours of February 14.
Prosecutors said Pistorius committed premeditated murder when he fired four shots into a locked toilet door, hitting his girlfriend cowering on the other side. Steenkamp, 29, suffered gunshot wounds to her head, hip and arm.
Pistorius said the killing was a tragic mistake, saying he had mistaken Steenkamp for an intruder - a possibility in crime-ridden South Africa - and opened fire in a blind panic.
However, in delivering his nearly two-hour bail ruling, Nair said there were a number of "improbabilities" in Pistorius's version of events, read out to the court in an affidavit by his lawyer, Barry Roux.
"I have difficulty in appreciating why the accused would not seek to ascertain who exactly was in the toilet," Nair said. "I also have difficulty in appreciating why the deceased would not have screamed back from the toilet."
By local standards, the bail conditions are onerous but it remains to be seen if they appease opposition to the decision from groups campaigning against the violence against women that is endemic in South Africa.
"We are saddened because women are being killed in this country," said Jacqui Mofokeng, a spokeswoman for the ruling African National Congress' Women's League, whose members stood outside the court this week with banners saying "Rot in jail".
TOO FAMOUS TO RUN
However, Nair said he made his decision in the "interests of justice" and argued that the prosecution, who suffered a setback when the lead investigator withered under cross-examination by Roux, failed to show Pistorius was either a flight risk or a threat to the public.
Roux stressed the Olympic and Paralympics runner's global fame made it impossible for him to evade justice by skipping bail and leaving the country.
"He can never go anywhere unnoticed," Roux told the court.
Pistorius, whose lower legs were amputated in infancy forcing him to race on carbon fiber "blades", faces life in prison if convicted of premeditated murder.
Prosecutors had portrayed him as a cold-blooded killer and said they were confident that their case, which will have to rely heavily on forensics and witnesses who said they heard shouting before the shots, would stand up to scrutiny at trial.
"We are going to make sure that we get enough evidence to get through this case during trial time," a spokesman for the National Prosecuting Authority told reporters.
In court, lead prosecutor Gerrie Nel was scornful of Pistorius's inability to contain his emotions. "I shoot and I think my career is over and I cry. I come to court and I cry because I feel sorry for myself," Nel said.
"DEEPLY IN LOVE"
In his affidavit, Pistorius said he was "deeply in love" with Steenkamp, leading Roux to stress his client had no motive for the killing.
Pistorius contends he reached for a 9-mm pistol under his bed because he felt particularly vulnerable without his prosthetic limbs.
According to police, witnesses heard shouting, gunshots and screams from the athlete's home, which sits in the heart of a gated community surrounded by 3-m- (yard-) high stone walls topped with an electric fence.
In a magazine interview a week before her death, published on Friday, Steenkamp spoke about her three-month relationship with the runner, who won global fame last year when he reached the semi-final of the 400 meters in the London Olympics despite having no lower legs.
"I absolutely adore Oscar. I respect and admire him so much," she told celebrity gossip magazine Heat. "I don't want anything to come in the way of his career."
Police pulled their lead detective off the case on Thursday after it was revealed he himself faces attempted murder charges for shooting at a minibus. He has been replaced by South Africa's top detective.
Pistorius's arrest stunned the millions around the world who saw him as an inspiring example of triumph over adversity.
But the impact was greatest in South Africa, where he was seen as a rare hero for both blacks and whites, transcending the racial divides that persist 19 years after the end of apartheid.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/02/22/us-safrica-pistorius-idUSBRE91K0FN20130222

[RichD]

Who the heck is Jovan Belcher?

Hello, he is now worth US$5million and he is not stupid. He knows that the the US$2million per year contracts with Nike and the sunglasses company would be in jeoprady if he got in trouble so I just don't believe he would have blown all of that.

Jovan Belcher was a NFL player who killed his girlfriend and himself last year. he was only making $1.9 M a year however.

[Tropicana]

Jovan Belcher was a NFL player who killed his girlfriend and himself last year. he was only making $1.9 M a year however.

Never of heard of him....and he was not as famous as Oscar Pistorius.

[Tropicana]

Oscar Pistorius bail decision condemned


The release of double amputee athlete Oscar Pistorius has been condemned for sending the wrong message in South Africa, a country where violence against women is seen as a national crisis.

The Olympian and Paralympian, who has admitted shooting dead his model girlfriend Reeva Steenkamp, was granted bail of 1m rand (£73,000) on Friday after a magistrate ruled that he does not pose a flight risk.

The African National Congress women's league (ANCWL) said it respected the bail ruling, but criticised the conduct of detective Hilton Botha, "who seemed unprofessional and unprepared during his cross-examination".

Spokeswoman Troy Martens added: "Some men in court… jumped up and celebrated the granting of bail as if they had won a trophy, forgetting that an innocent woman has lost her life. This is not the message men of this country, especially men with a degree of influence, should be sending to our youth. "
Professor Rachel Jewkes, director of gender and health research unit at the South African Medical Research Council, said: "This sends exactly the opposite message to what we want. It shows that the courts do not take gender violence seriously, especially in a situation as extreme as this. It's a symptom of a problem we have in South Africa."
She added. "It's very hard not to think Pistorius is being given special treatment because he's a celebrity. Bail seems to be extremely low for people with means."
Gender violence is rife in South Africa, where 56,272 rapes were recorded last year. Surveys have found between a quarter and a third of men admit committing rape. In court on Friday prosecutor Gerrie Nel made reference to president Jacob Zuma's recent state of the nation speech calling for the prevention of violence against women and children to be made a priority.
Steenkamp's family have not been in court this week, but on Friday there was an appearance by her friend Kim Myers and Myers's mother, Desi, both of whom were close to the model. "This is a bail application, it's not a trial, and we hope and pray that justice will prevail," Kim Myers said. "It's still a very sad time for us and we need to remember that somebody did lose their life, and our hearts, thoughts and prayers just go out to the Steenkamp family. We're still very sad. She was an amazing person."
The Pistorius family, who formed a circle and prayed in the courtroom, also paid tribute to Steenkamp. Pistorius's uncle Arnold told reporters: "We are relieved of the fact that Oscar got bail today. But at the same time we are in mourning for the death of Reeva with her family.



"As the family, we know Oscar's version of what happened that tragic night and we know that that is the truth and that will prevail in the coming court case."
Lawyers in the court blew on their perspiring hands as the magistrate read the arguments. Barry Roux, Pistorius's defence advocate, smiled: "Do I have a headache? Of course I was tense." He added: "I think it is a fair decision to grant bail. It was a bit hairy but it will be fine."
Speaking outside court, Medupe Simasiku, from South Africa's national prosecuting authority, told reporters: "The bail application does not mean that this person is acquitted." He said there was more work to be done and, when the court meets again on 4 June, they will have a better idea of when a trial can be held.
It is not uncommon for individuals facing murder charges to be released on bail in South Africa. The alternative can be years of awaiting trial in an overcrowded and dangerous prison system.
Antony Altbeker, author of Fruit of a Poisoned Tree, about a miscarriage of justice, said: "Society should err on the side of giving bail to the accused. The denial of bail should be limited to exceptional cases like a flight risk." He rejected the view that the magistrate should have considered the wider political consequences in South Africa. "Treating a bail hearing as an instrument for sending messages is problematic. Bail is about procedural fairness, not wider questions than that."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013...-bail-reaction

[RichD]

Never of heard of him....and he was not as famous as Oscar Pistorius.

ok i guess he had noting to lose then.

carry on.

[RichD]

Tropi..you ever heard of Hansie Cronje?

[Tropicana]

I did not say he had NOTHING to lose...he did not have as much to lose as Oscar. Also, don't know what his demeanour was like.


Based on Oscar's demeanour

it is one of 3 scenarios:

- he shot her back accident
- he shot her in cold blood and he is a raging pschopathic lunatic
- he shot her in cold blood and he is one hell of an actor and he should give up sports, go to Hollywood and take up a career in film and TV...he would surely win an Emmy AND an Academy award - do you know how hard it is to cry on cue and break down like that?

[Tropicana]

Tropi..you ever heard of Hansie Cronje?

No.

[RichD]

it is one of 3 scenarios:

- he shot her back accident
- he shot her in cold blood and he is a raging pschopathic lunatic
- he shot her in cold blood and he is one hell of an actor and he should give up sports, go to Hollywood and take up a career in film and TV...he would surely win an Emmy AND an Academy award - do you know how hard it is to cry on cue and break down like that?

or he was in a blind rag and shot her ..or shot trying to scare her and now is devastated that he killed her. would nto take any acting at all.

or he shot her in cold blood and is crying because he is in so much trouble. and thinking about the possibility of life in jail.


there are parallels with the jovan belcher case..he was angry he shot her..he was devastated crying, hugging her ... then he went to the stadium and tole his Gm and coaches how sorry he was thanked them for thir help and the opportunity and then killed himself.

[RichD]

Tropi..you ever heard of Hansie Cronje?

No.

look him up ..I bet he was more popular in SA than even pistrious is now.