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Originally posted by My Looh
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Yep send home the smaddy that live in your country from a youth and learn him bad ways in your country to go be a problem in another country with the thug ways he learned in your country ... real talk ... My older child has already spent more than half his life in a foreign land he's Jamaican by birth but anything Jamaican he knows we have to teach him ... No wonder they go to Jamaica and the majority of deportees wreak havoc. -
I want to address a couple of points. I guess you would call my parents negligent. I came here as a toddler and had landed status. My parents didn't apply for citizenship for themselves or me.Originally posted by My Looh View Post
Honestly the only reason I eventually took citizenship out was I knew I would be away on and off and, at the time, if you were away for more than 6 months you would lose your landed status.
By the time I left, I had experienced many disappointments and I wasn't planning to come back here to live. It was grad school and then my plan was to get a job in Jamaica and stay there. I still wanted to be able to come and see my parents and my sister (who was born here) so I took out my citizenship. My Mom reminded me that one of my friends, similar situation as mine, came to Canada at 8 or 9, went to university in Canada, graduated early. Married a Jamaican man at 20 and moved to Jamaica with him after a couple of years. She was out of the country more than 6 months. When she came back to visit her family, they weren't going to let her in but they gave her a break. She took out her citizenship and when I was leaving, she advised me to do the same.
Like many Jamaican immigrants at the time, they came with the intention of getting an education or working and saving money and returning home within a few years. Canada hasn't always been warm and welcoming to Jamaican immigrants. When you are told point blank we don't rent to (yes the N word) or we can't hire N's because co-workers will object, it does not give one a warm and fuzzy feeling about their place of residence. My parents experienced that. I didn't even know about it until I was in my late teens. I have not experienced it but I have heard from people who were picked on and terrorized, called the N word and beaten up almost every day (boys). When a parent sees this happening to their children, are they going to run right out and get citizenship? Likely there is a lot of ambivalence and this may be one of the reasons so many don't take out citizenship. My parents had always planned to retire in Jamaica but when the situation was such that they realized they wouldn't do that, they took out citizenship when I was lving and working in Jamaica. (I had thought it was when I was a university but my Mom who is with me at the moment corrected me.) They wrote and told me and I remember feeling sad. This was many years before their retirement but they made the decision based on the crime rate, the economy and advice from relatives.
Life doesn't always unfold the way we want. I worked in Jamaica and had a blast. Before I left I had met someone (Jamaican) who lived in Toronto. Eventually, I came back to Canada, moved to Toronto and we got married. I had hoped we would work as a team, save a lot of money and go back to Jamaica but things didn't work out the way I wanted them to.
The bottom line is that we all have reasons for doing the things we do. As Jamaicans, we are truly loyal to our home and, at the past, there really was no disadvantage to not being a citizen. No one could have foreseen the Draconian laws that would come into force and the consequences for their children. It's easy to judge but until one has the whole picture, pronouncements like the ones you have made a kind of harsh. If I had made a wrong move, I could just as easily have ended up like any of the thousands of deportees. As I remind my son constantly....keep your nose clean, this place is not very forgiving if you're not some blue blood White boy whose dad is a CEO or some blonde who looks like you stepped off a Cosmo cover. When you're Black, one wrong move and they'll lock you up and throw away the key and, for those of us not born here, you can find yourself on a plane heading back to Jamaica before having a chance to get an education or a marketable skill.
Kudos to Sudz and Jennifer for sounding the alarm on this.
Last edited by Tropicana; 03-24-2013, 08:38 AM.Comment
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You raise an important point. You know if I look at my cousins who were raised in Jamaica, with one exception, even those who are from the poorest branches of the family have held their own. One had a brief incident as a youth, spent some time at one of those places in the country for wayward youth and he has never looked back. They are all responsible productive citizens.Originally posted by twiney View Post
If I look at the cousins who migrated, some have done well but others have had a whole host of problems. Trust me, it has not been a cakewalk.
If someone is in Jamaica and they have no education or marketable skill, heaven help them. How the heck will they manage. The foreign governments don't care though. They have created some of the problems the young people experience that cause them to get into trouble in the first place and then they wash their hand of it and dump the problem on Jamaica.My older child has already spent more than half his life in a foreign land he's Jamaican by birth but anything Jamaican he knows we have to teach him ... No wonder they go to Jamaica and the majority of deportees wreak havoc.
I found returning to Jamaica to live a blast as I had finished university. I got a job, boarded with a lady near work and went to school at night. Spent my time going to theatre, dance clubs, the beach, fashion shows...used to love those, and just re-discovering my roots. It was a really happy time for me. Those who land in Kingston after being deported have no one to guide them have a rough time. Often no one even knows they are coming.
It is telling that the US, Canadian and UK Governments do this to Jamaicans but rarely do this to European immigrants....unless they are Nazi war criminals (who are denaturalized and then deported). Clearly we have been targeted.Last edited by Tropicana; 03-23-2013, 11:44 PM.Comment
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This Jamaicans.com article underscores what I told My Look. Note the bolding.
The US Deportation Process - Removal Proceedings
By Nadine A. Brown
Published Aug 21, 2007If an Immigration violator is apprehended by the US Border Patrol or Immigration and Customs Enforcement Officer, then he or she is placed in removal or deportation proceedings. In addition, many are placed in removal proceedings because of a failed Immigration application. These individuals are issued Notices to Appear in Immigration Court by the US CIS adjudications officer. Thus, many people end up in removal proceedings because of some of the following actions beginning with the most common: illegal entry by land, sea or airport; improper application for extension of non-immigrant visa status; ineligibility for work authorization; ineligibility for permanent residency status; expired conditional resident status, expired permanent resident card, ineligibility for naturalization, omissions or fraud on applications especially naturalization petitions, routine arrests, and criminal convictions.
Therefore, almost anyone, except a US citizen of more than 2 years, including those applying for entry, submitting applications for Immigration benefits, and those who already have permanent residency status can be placed in removal proceedings and deported. Just having a Green Card does not protect the individual from deportation or removal proceedings. Also, those who have had a naturalization certificate for less than two (2) years can have that naturalization revoked and an order of deportation entered against them if that certificate was issued because of fraud. Others who have engaged in serious security breaches to the level of treason or engaged in terrorist activities against the United States may be denaturalized.
Many people believe that if they have the misfortune to be placed in proceedings, then all you have to do is present a case for hardship to an Immigration Judge and there is a good chance s/he will stop the deportation. Not so. Each Immigration Judge is bound by the Immigration & Nationality Act to only grant the relief available to each applicant. Most undocumented people who have no immediate US citizen relatives, who have crossed the border illegally, or who have overstayed their visa may have no relief available. They may or may not be eligible for what is called “voluntary departure”. Voluntary Departure is what the applicant agrees to do, voluntarily depart the United States at his or her own expense. Voluntary Departure applies only to individuals who have no criminal conviction and who have been in the United States for at least one year and has the present ability and resources to leave the United States. The Immigration Judge may grant the individual 30 to 120 days to depart the United States. Extensions beyond this time are rare and if the individual agrees to voluntary depart but fails to do so, then the Immigration Judge’s order converts into an order of removal, in which case, a warrant for arrest will be issued. Most individuals once they are back in their country of origin can register with the US Embassy there and if under bond can recuperate that bond upon registry.
Others who have immediate relatives who are US citizens may qualify for other relief such as Adjustment of Status or Cancellation of Removal. Some may qualify for asylum. In order to qualify for asylum, the individual can be a new arrival, or demonstrate that s/he has been persecuted in their country of origin because of their race, religion, nationality, political opinion or membership in a particular social group. If an applicant for asylum has been in the United States physically longer than one year, it is increasingly difficult but not impossible for a judge to grant asylum. Individuals who have changed country or personal circumstances may still qualify for asylum if they meet the higher burden of proof.
Just getting one's citizenship does not guarantee protection.
Read more: http://www.jamaicans.com/articles/im...#ixzz2OQNonN00Comment
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Reuben’s story: a harrowing deportation to Jamaica
My name is Melody Simpson. I was brought legally to the U.S. by my mother in January 1974. While attending high school, I met my husband Peter Simpson, who was also from Jamaica and a green card holder. My husband enlisted in the U.S. Army in 1976 doing a tour of duty and station in Wildflecken, Germany, and I traveled with him. In January 1980, my son Reuben Simpson was born in Wurzburg, Germany. My husband’s tour was about to end, so I tried to obtain a U.S. passport for my son, but I was informed that he was not a U.S. Citizen. Due to the short time frame, I went to the Jamaican embassy in Bond and placed him on my passport to travel back home. We returned to the U.S. in March 1980 and my son was given legal resident status on his entry in the U.S. Then in 1982, we went back to Germany but this time, he couldn’t fly on my passport so I went to the Jamaican Embassy in New York and applied for a passport for him. That is how he ended up with that Jamaican passport, which eventually expired and was never used.
I had another son while on the second turn of duty with my husband in Germany in 1983. We returned to the U.S. in 1985. My husband decided to leave the Army and 2 years later, we separated. It was very hard on the children. At one point, Reuben went to live with his father and soon after, his father obtained citizenship. I also applied for my citizenship, but did not receive it until February 26, 1998, and by this time, Reuben was 18.
Reuben moved to Pennsylvania and got in trouble for drug-related charges. He pleaded guilty (not knowing it would result in his removal) and was sentenced to 18 months – 5 years. After serving two years, he was given parole and started working. However, when he was arrested, the police took all his documents and never returned them, so he had to apply for a new card. Soon after, he was locked up in an immigration jail and told he was up for deportation. With the help of an attorney, Andrea Clark, we filed to derive citizenship through his parents but he was denied, because I had him on my application as living with me. The attorney told me that if I stated that Reuben was born on a U.S. Military base, then he should be a citizen, but immigration officials denied it.
Throughout all this, my son couldn’t take it anymore, due to the stress and terrible treatment he experienced in jail and he finally gave up. The judge gave him a final order and travel documents were requested from Germany, but they were denied because a child born on German soil has to have at least one parent to be German in order for the child to be a citizen. They also informed him that he was actually stateless and the U.S. has the authority to release him 180 days from the time of the final order of removal or they would have to release him, so they requested travel documents from Jamaica.
While waiting to hear from Jamaica about the documents, Reuben was called out of his cell to have a telephone interview with the Jamaican Consulate in Miami, Mr. Carter. My son told him where he was born and let him know he had never been to Jamaica. Reuben also told Mr. Carter he did not know anyone in Jamaica. He told me to relax, even though Jamaica wouldn’t give me the documents, and said that Mr. Carter would like to interview myself and Reuben’s father.
I never received a call from anyone in the Jamaica Consulate. I kept calling, but no one ever got back to me. 14 days before the 180 days were up, my son was awakened, told to pack his things and two days later he was in Jamaica.
The rest of the story is told by my son.
Once I landed in Kingston on January 27, 2007, I was taken off the U.S. Marshal Plane, unshackled, put on a bus and sent to some little church with the police and immigration to be processed. I was asked where I was born and I told them Wurzburg, Germany. They stared at me in disbelief and told me I was born in Lucea Hanover Township in October 1957. They showed me the document I came down on, which had my dad’s birthplace and date with my name and photo and this travel document was stamped and signed by Jamaican Consulate (Mr. Carter in Miami). I was held in the jail out here for 6 days because they needed more proof that my parents were really Jamaican. My mother called the Jamaican Consulate in Miami (Mr. Carter) everyday, only to get the secretary tell her he wasn’t in. My mom started cussing one day and then they released me and took me to the immigration office and told me to apply for a passport because I’m from “nowhere” and I can’t leave Jamaica unless I have a passport.
It’s been almost 4 years and this whole thing has taken a real toll on me. I’m stressed, depressed, at most times and I’m sorry to say, but I’ve contemplated suicide numerous times since I’ve been here. The culture shock is not nice at all. People see that I’m different, so it is hard to blend in, but being myself seems to turn people off. I feel alone all the time. I’m labeled as prey because people think I have money or that I have ties in America, but it isn’t like that. My mother has been experiencing bigger financial problems and it’s almost impossible for me to fit into this society as a regular citizen. I lost everything that I had, but everything that I had was my family. I don’t have anything, not even family here in Jamaica. What they did was wrong, sending me down here on false documents.
I really want to be back with my family and in the country that I was raised in, where I learned to walk and talk, where I pledged allegiance and saluted that American flag and sang my country tis of thee’ since kindergarten. Everything I learned, I learned it in AmericaE!!!Comment
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Becoming a citizen does not automatically protect you from being deported. The issues raised in Home Again are relevant to all of us who were born in Jamaica:
More: http://immigration.lawyers.com/v2/ci...tizenship.htmlDenaturalization is how the US government revokes or cancels your US citizenship because you've done something that's contrary to being a US citizen. There are several things that can jeopardize your citizenship:- Concealing facts or lying to the immigration officials
- Refusing to testify before the US Congress
- Joining certain organizations
- Receiving certain military discharges
Reasons for Revocation
The US Citizenship and Immigration Services (USCIS) and the US Department of State can make a determination that your citizenship should be revoked. The US immigration law is very specific about what can lead to revocation of your citizenship as well as the revocation process.
Concealment
If you concealed facts or lied about important matters at the time you were interviewed by the USCIS on your application for naturalization, then your US citizenship may be revoked. Some examples include intentionally not listing a criminal conviction, giving a false name or lying about the period of time you've been in the US on your application.
Refusing to Testify
Your US citizenship can be cancelled if you refuse to testify before a committee formed by the US Congress to investigate your participation in subversive activities. Your refusal to testify, however, has to be within 10 years after the USCIS granted your application for naturalization.
What's a "subversive activity?" It can be many things, but for revocation purposes it generally means doing or teaching others how to do some act that's designed to:
- Overthrow the US government, especially through violence and force
- Harm or injure US government officials
Membership in Subversive Organizations
Membership in a subversive organization or group within five years after you became a naturalized citizen could lead to revocation of your citizenship. The Communist Party and terrorist groups are the classic examples of "subversive" organizations.
Military Service and Discharge
It's possible to become a naturalized citizen based upon your service in the US armed forces. If, however, you are dishonorably discharged before you've served five years honorably, your citizenship may be cancelled. For example, immigrant A enlisted in the US Army in 2005 and was sent to a combat unit in Iraq. In 2007 she applied for and was granted naturalization based upon her honorable military service. In 2008, she was dishonorably discharged. Because A didn't have five years of honorable service before her dishonorable discharge, her US citizenship may be revoked.
Denaturalization Actions
For a naturalized citizen, US citizenship can be revoked only through a judicial action, that is, a suit filed in court. Generally, these suits are filed in a federal district court. Typically, the suit is filed in the district court where you live or reside. If you aren't living in the US, the suit can be filed in the United States District Court for the District of Columbia or in the district court for the area where you last resided.
You have to be given "notice" of the suit. The US government has to tell you that a denaturalization action has been filed against you and where the suit was filed. You'll be given or "served" a copy of the complaint that's been filed with the court, which tells you why the denaturalization action was filed. Also, the US government must file "affidavit of good cause" detailing exactly why the government is trying to revoke your citizenship.
You have 60 days to file an answer to the government's complaint, where you can challenge the government's claims and raise any defenses against revocation. For example, you may claim that the revocation is based on wrong information, such as that the government is mistaken about a past criminal conviction that it claims you failed to report on your naturalization application.
The government must prove its case against you by evidence that is clear, unequivocal, convincing and doesn't leave any doubt that your citizenship should be revoked. If it's successful, your certificate of citizenship will be revoked immediately.
Consequences
Obviously, having your US citizenship revoked is serious. If your citizenship is cancelled, you can be removed or deported from the US. It's not only you that you have to worry about. In some instances, if your citizenship is revoked, members of your family could lose their citizenship too, if their citizenship depends upon your status of being a naturalized citizen. For example, if you're a naturalized citizen and have a child born outside the US, your child may be a US citizen based upon your naturalized status. In some cases, if your citizenship is revoked, your child's citizenship may be revoked as well.
Because of the serious consequences of denaturalization, you should get the advice of an experienced immigration lawyer if a denaturalization lawsuit is filed against you.Comment
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Twiney's comment in another thread reminded me of an important point.
Did you know that if you sponsor someone to come to Canada (a child, an elderly person) and they end up being a financial liability (e.g. on welfare) you and they can be deported depending on the conditions that were in force at the time of sponsorship.
Also, have we forgotten the Jamaican women who were deported from Canada for lying on their applications about having children? Now I am not going to debate whether or not they should have been deported for lying...I have an opinion but this is an old controversy....I am just raising this in response to My Looh's harsh comments. Just getting citizenship is no guarantee of protection from deportation.Comment
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Did a search. Evanovitch and sistactry have been starting threads about the deportee issues:
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Citizenship means nothing in this country when it as well as the US and UK have deported ppl to Jamaica who were born in Canada, the US & UK or had citizenship.
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Who is it that is responsible when you say "learn him bad ways in your country"?Originally posted by twiney View Post
Is the problem societal? I take it that is what you mean.
Please correct me if I'm wrong!
So no blame goes to lack of proper parenting, little supervision of the youth or perhaps the flippant behaviour by fathers when it comes to taking responsibility for their children's upbringing or even if they are around at all for that matter?Comment
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We are not speaking of blame or responsible parenting here ... Or the argument would be any bad parenting regardless of country of citizenship you send them back. We can start a different thread on parenting issues it would be pages long. The issue here is a country choosing to deport a problem their society has created it is not related to citizenship.Originally posted by My Looh View PostComment
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If society has caused them to screw up then I agree with you. Society need to deal with them on their own terms, not ship them off. But if they are led astray by lack of proper parenting then why should society be held responsible and have to pay for their incarceration and possible rehabilitation, especially if they are not even a citizen here.Originally posted by twiney View Post
I don't think either of our views are going to change on this. I respect your opinion but I think we will just have to agree to disagree.Comment
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Questions for Richard Chevolleau
Richard if you come by here are a few questions. I just saw the movie and I was blown away particularly by your performance.
1. I have known you for years as you know and I had no idea you could do a Jamaican accent so well. How old were you when you came to Canada? Did you get coaching or have you kept it since coming to Canada and just polished it for the movie?
2. Where was it shot? I had the impression part of it was shot in Trinidad which would account for the Trinidadian accent of some of the female performers. Was any of it filmed in Jamaica?
3. What are you working on now? Any new projects?
I am going to interview you for the front page on this site so I will send you more questions.
If anyone has any questions for Richard....please post them here.Last edited by Tropicana; 03-24-2013, 05:58 PM.Comment
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And there are many cases like that.Originally posted by My Looh View Post
I have a lot to say on this topic and I have said a lot about this IRL. Definitely parents need to be held accountable, especially those who are offered help and refuse to cooperate with counsellors and social workers. I could say a LOT about that point but will only say, I hear you on this one.Originally posted by My Looh View Post
At the end of the day, there comes a point when kids make their own choices. You can rag on them,
and make their lives a living hell if they are heading in the wrong direction but they will make their own decisions.
Actually, I don't think we are in disagreement except when you basically ragged on Jamaican parents for not getting citizenship for their kids. Yes now we know better and parents should do it to reduce the likelihood of deportation...but back when, there was no disadvantage to being a landed immigrant.. Who could have projected the laws that were going to come in?Originally posted by My Looh View Post
Why are they targeting Jamaicans? I have only heard of one case of a Scottish kid being shipped back, other than that, White kids are allowed to stay here after serving their time...ditto by the way for some of the Middle Eastern ones...example Omar Khadr's brother. Thes foreign countries are producing far more criminals than Jamaica produces. A lot of the crimes are petty.
34,000 Jamaicans have been deported due to these laws and this is 7X the entire prison population of Jamaica.Last edited by Tropicana; 03-24-2013, 06:17 PM.Comment
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