If slavery never happened

[Seveen]

Re: If slavery never happened

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Africans have not been incharge of Africva since slavery

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actually since before slavery - when the big production "moguls" moved in - ie europeans

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Africa was not the only place they did,and their simple present without the disarming,and overpowering of the africans would not mean deprivation.,does not

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so if they did it other places - the big production - why was africa the only one disarmed and overpowered - i don't think there were more europeans than africans on the continent - why'd it work differently in africa

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africa was not the only place this happened. the british did it in china and india. look up The Raj. India was considered the jewel in Queen Victoria's crown.

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i don't remember anyone being deported in those situations - and now India and China have gotten rid of the last bits of the colonialist - at least on paper [img]/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

and Queen Victoria was getting around - she has markers all over the world [img]/forums/images/graemlins/70456-eyebrows.gif[/img] saw too many in east africa

so why'd they decide to take folks outta african

[evanovitch]

Re: If slavery never happened

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Nelson Mandela would still be in jail without us - do you think they were going to release him without pressure [img]/forums/images/graemlins/70394-bawlout.gif[/img]

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u know dis mek mi laff...the last minute arrival of Americans somehow brought about the release of Nelson....all the decades of work by others went for nought.,..or does it show, that the SAfrican apartheid system had support from Americans, thereby strengthening their resolve all those previous decades to keep him locked up [img]/forums/images/graemlins/70402-thinking.gif[/img]

[Seveen]

Re: If slavery never happened

i'm sure there was "American" support - but the tide turned through protests there and here and i think if we had never been "transferred" - no tide would have turned [img]/forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

no i don't think slavery was a "benefit" but i'm on the other side of it and working to provide reparations to that continent - they are on the losing end far worse than the "survivors"

[una nina]

Re: If slavery never happened

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by the time of slavery the "underdevelopment of africa" had already started as noted earlier in this thread [img]/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

the shift from subsistence society to capitalism was already underway

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Are you suggesting that simply because the continent was under developed,even withou slavery, Africans were not capable of reversing it,as has been done on all other continents?

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africans are still in africa - have they "reversed" it?

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...apples and oranges...different situation now, we were talking about if there were no transatlantic slave trade....

[Q3210]

Re: If slavery never happened

According to you, we should be happy that slavery happened, right?

You putting words in my mouth. You hold me in contempt to suggest that I would think that slavery was the ways and means for your salvation. Be better than that.

[Seveen]

Re: If slavery never happened

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According to you, we should be happy that slavery happened, right?

You putting words in my mouth. You hold me in contempt to suggest that I would think that slavery was the ways and means for your salvation. Be better than that.

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[img]/forums/images/graemlins/70458-applaud.gif[/img]

[Q3210]

Re: If slavery never happened

The reason I have asked you to explain yourself is based on your use of the word benefit. You could only speak of benefit when something or a condition is gained that would not if the event of slavery did not occur. In other words, in order to see benefit, we would have to look back at Africa, where our lives would be today and compare that with now. The same we can do by comparing whites before african slavery and now. I can see how Europeans have benefited from slavery and have continued to maintained wealth but I fail to see how we have benefited. Proportionally our lost is far more greater than our gain which in most cases is accompanied by many disadvantaged. Hence the need for reparations.

Q replies: From slavery the Europeans benefitted more directly by all means. From slavery children of slaves have benefitted by what has come out and after the slave era. I am not talking about pre-slave era. A slave was a slave. I am not comparing now with the African pre-slave era because I do not know what was it that allowed such an exodus of people held beyond their own will, though doc Dudd said that Africans were drugged thus making it easy for them to be shackled and led away. I do not see it that way, because no African could ever be drugged in such quantity.
What was derived post slave era, the industrial revolution benefitted not only Europeans, benefitted former slaves too, ask Carver and many others who took advantage of the technology available at the time as basic fork and hoe agriculture was seconded to what the mechanics of the new revolution brought.
The social aspect was quite another thing and thats where the church and where morality has come forth, hence Rev Martin Luther King and many others before and after him who have helped make the Black man a man by hiw own means and not property shackled from his own land and taken away to do the work the whiteman could never do under the sun.

[Q3210]

Re: If slavery never happened

Well now you come, this is what I wanted to see from you long time. So, if slavery did not exist, I as an African would be without education? I would not earn my living?

Slavery did exist Comparing what slavery in it self was and those who are now products of that era, you have gained opportunity. As a matter of fact you have gained thus more opportunity by leaving Jamaica and relocating to North America all this being on the path post slavery era. Whether how minor or how great, you have benefitted.

[evanovitch]

Re: If slavery never happened

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Q replies: From slavery the Europeans benefitted more directly by all means. From slavery children of slaves have benefitted by what has come out and after the slave era. I am not talking about pre-slave era. A slave was a slave. I am not comparing now with the African pre-slave era because I do not know what was it that allowed such an exodus of people held beyond their own will, though doc Dudd said that Africans were drugged thus making it easy for them to be shackled and led away. I do not see it that way, because no African could ever be drugged in such quantity.
What was derived post slave era, the industrial revolution benefitted not only Europeans, benefitted former slaves too, ask Carver and many others who took advantage of the technology available at the time as basic fork and hoe agriculture was seconded to what the mechanics of the new revolution brought.
The social aspect was quite another thing and thats where the church and where morality has come forth, hence Rev Martin Luther King and many others before and after him who have helped make the Black man a man by hiw own means and not property shackled from his own land and taken away to do the work the whiteman could never do under the sun.

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the above is like saying the Jews benefitted from the development of the train since they rode it to the death camps...Carver etc took advantage... [img]/forums/images/graemlins/704555_dwl.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/graemlins/704555_dwl.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/graemlins/704555_dwl.gif[/img]

[MrsBlue]

Re: If slavery never happened

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Q replies: From slavery the Europeans benefitted more directly by all means. From slavery children of slaves have benefitted by what has come out and after the slave era. I am not talking about pre-slave era. A slave was a slave. I am not comparing now with the African pre-slave era because I do not know what was it that allowed such an exodus of people held beyond their own will, though doc Dudd said that Africans were drugged thus making it easy for them to be shackled and led away. I do not see it that way, because no African could ever be drugged in such quantity.
What was derived post slave era, the industrial revolution benefitted not only Europeans, benefitted former slaves too, ask Carver and many others who took advantage of the technology available at the time as basic fork and hoe agriculture was seconded to what the mechanics of the new revolution brought.

[/ QUOTE ] <font color="blue">This statement implies two things. 1. That the agricultural technology available in African countries was less than or equal to "basic fork and hoe" and 2. That the only way that African people would have had access to newer mechanics is through the industrial revolution. </font>


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The social aspect was quite another thing and thats where the church and where morality has come forth, hence Rev Martin Luther King and many others before and after him who have helped make the Black man a man by hiw own means and not property shackled from his own land and taken away to do the work the whiteman could never do under the sun.

[/ QUOTE ] <font color="blue">Which would not have been necessary had the Black man and woman not been taken in the first place. </font>

[Seveen]

Re: If slavery never happened

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Q replies: From slavery the Europeans benefitted more directly by all means. From slavery children of slaves have benefitted by what has come out and after the slave era. I am not talking about pre-slave era. A slave was a slave. I am not comparing now with the African pre-slave era because I do not know what was it that allowed such an exodus of people held beyond their own will, though doc Dudd said that Africans were drugged thus making it easy for them to be shackled and led away. I do not see it that way, because no African could ever be drugged in such quantity.
What was derived post slave era, the industrial revolution benefitted not only Europeans, benefitted former slaves too, ask Carver and many others who took advantage of the technology available at the time as basic fork and hoe agriculture was seconded to what the mechanics of the new revolution brought.
The social aspect was quite another thing and thats where the church and where morality has come forth, hence Rev Martin Luther King and many others before and after him who have helped make the Black man a man by hiw own means and not property shackled from his own land and taken away to do the work the whiteman could never do under the sun.

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the above is like saying the Jews benefitted from the development of the train since they rode it to the death camps...Carver etc took advantage... [img]/forums/images/graemlins/704555_dwl.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/graemlins/704555_dwl.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/graemlins/704555_dwl.gif[/img]

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not funny [img]/forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

but even in the struggle for the Jews they got their own country
and they can bomb the boo boo out of anyone - including US

[Seveen]

Re: If slavery never happened

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Q replies: From slavery the Europeans benefitted more directly by all means. From slavery children of slaves have benefitted by what has come out and after the slave era. I am not talking about pre-slave era. A slave was a slave. I am not comparing now with the African pre-slave era because I do not know what was it that allowed such an exodus of people held beyond their own will, though doc Dudd said that Africans were drugged thus making it easy for them to be shackled and led away. I do not see it that way, because no African could ever be drugged in such quantity.
What was derived post slave era, the industrial revolution benefitted not only Europeans, benefitted former slaves too, ask Carver and many others who took advantage of the technology available at the time as basic fork and hoe agriculture was seconded to what the mechanics of the new revolution brought.

[/ QUOTE ] <font color="blue">This statement implies two things. 1. That the agricultural technology available in African countries was less than or equal to "basic fork and hoe" and 2. That the only way that African people would have had access to newer mechanics is through the industrial revolution. </font>


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The social aspect was quite another thing and thats where the church and where morality has come forth, hence Rev Martin Luther King and many others before and after him who have helped make the Black man a man by hiw own means and not property shackled from his own land and taken away to do the work the whiteman could never do under the sun.

[/ QUOTE ] <font color="blue">Which would not have been necessary had the Black man and woman not been taken in the first place. </font>

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read the info evanovitch provided - really read it - 'cause these were discussed and we will use that as reference since no one wants to believe anything else

[evanovitch]

Re: If slavery never happened

the sum total is that had not slavery occured as it involved Europeans , Africa as a continent would have undergone the patterns of inevitable socialization and evolution....

maybe , nations would have sprung up on same tribe differentiation as opposed to the forced merging of diverse tribes as done by the Europeans


countries would have emerged along a natural line as opposed to the abrupt and free for all forced boundaries that the mad grab for land has caused

the same continent which houses the nation of Ethiopia which gave rise to the first University would have continued in this vein of evolution

the same continent that gave rise to the military, community planning of a Shaka Zulu would have continued to develop and evolve....experiencing good and bad and using both to chart its course

the fact remains, that the natural course was forever changed and changed profoundly by the advent of the European and the introduction of an alien society and its influences....

it is to be thought that eventually both societies would have met, but the meeting might have been outside that of the forced imposition of the latter on the former ...one of equals as opposed to one of perceived superiority based solely on skin colour

[evanovitch]

Re: If slavery never happened

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Q replies: From slavery the Europeans benefitted more directly by all means. From slavery children of slaves have benefitted by what has come out and after the slave era. I am not talking about pre-slave era. A slave was a slave. I am not comparing now with the African pre-slave era because I do not know what was it that allowed such an exodus of people held beyond their own will, though doc Dudd said that Africans were drugged thus making it easy for them to be shackled and led away. I do not see it that way, because no African could ever be drugged in such quantity.
What was derived post slave era, the industrial revolution benefitted not only Europeans, benefitted former slaves too, ask Carver and many others who took advantage of the technology available at the time as basic fork and hoe agriculture was seconded to what the mechanics of the new revolution brought.
The social aspect was quite another thing and thats where the church and where morality has come forth, hence Rev Martin Luther King and many others before and after him who have helped make the Black man a man by hiw own means and not property shackled from his own land and taken away to do the work the whiteman could never do under the sun.

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the above is like saying the Jews benefitted from the development of the train since they rode it to the death camps...Carver etc took advantage... [img]/forums/images/graemlins/704555_dwl.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/graemlins/704555_dwl.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/graemlins/704555_dwl.gif[/img]

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not funny [img]/forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

but even in the struggle for the Jews they got their own country
and they can bomb the boo boo out of anyone - including US

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it depends on wat u think i find funny...the laughter comes after the statement that I find funny..

[Seveen]

Re: If slavery never happened

thank you evanovitch [img]/forums/images/graemlins/70409-waytogo.gif[/img]

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it is to be thought that eventually both societies would have met, but the meeting might have been outside that of the forced imposition of the latter on the former ...one of equals as opposed to one of perceived superiority based solely on skin colour

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and that brings us to now [img]/forums/images/graemlins/bannana_purple.gif[/img]

[img]/forums/images/graemlins/notworthy.gif[/img] loved the discussion once we got past the name calling [img]/forums/images/graemlins/70402-thinking.gif[/img]

very constructive [img]/forums/images/graemlins/70409-waytogo.gif[/img]