If slavery never happened

**evanovitch** · 11-28-2006, 08:14 PM

Re: If slavery never happened

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and you may have heard me tell this story before

when i visited Kenya - i had people apologizing to me for slavery - while trying to take my money and me for a ride (thank goodness i have travel experience)

i told them no need to apologize to me because i knew i was a Queen

that my ancestors made it through the Middle Passage (i know you know how many didn't)

that i made it through slavery, Jim Crow

and i had made it all the way back to Africa

and it didn't look like they had done very much while i was gone

and they BOAL and said that's the truth - while listening to my reggae CDs and checking out my JA "veggies"

thanks for the stimulating conversation - kinda sick of dear k and the general discussion crap that's been going on lately [img]/forums/images/graemlins/70459-hugs.gif[/img]

and i'm going to check out that author [img]/forums/images/graemlins/bannana_purple.gif[/img]

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and that is the sum total of ur african experience and ur appreciation of 'African History'...remarkable....and it was ur Jamaican novelties that gave u entree...none that u brought from ur own experiences in ur own country....but u r still a queen indeed ...and they laughed an agreed with u but were not laughing at u ....got u indeed

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yes a very candid conversation - held with more than one group of people - why should i give my power up - and i saw the Gates show where some Africans almost made him grovel - like African Americans don't have a unique and powerful history of their own - i'm proud of it and happy for the strength of knowing the difficult path

and as for the jamaican things - i traveled from England to Kenya on holiday - the community i lived in the UK was jamaican - when i got to Kenya i didn't even have hot weather clothes to wear - my Kenyan sistren hooked me up - and others invited me to their homes and took me to places of interest - on equal terms

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and still u dont understand...

**Serenity82** · 11-28-2006, 08:16 PM

Re: If slavery never happened

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how were they able to take over the continent?
I don't think they took over the continent. Europeans DID take over many parts of Africa. Once case is S. Africa. The europeans that settled there built up their own little village. They started, little by little, setting up a government and laying down rules that would strangle the native Africans there. They used psychological tactics. They were very quiet and methodical in their take over of the entire system. Before the people looked up, they were banned and living in squalor...

Africans were known to be non-judgemental and were the type of people that would take from other cultures and make it their own (Christianity and Islam are prime examples). An unhealthy TRUST of others caused some of the destruction of Africa.

This is one way in which the europeans and middle easterners "took over." 

and the pressure and control is in our own minds
only us can free our minds
and blaming our lot on slavery is not freeing your mind
 I don't think people are "blaming their lot" on slavery, but you have to admit that it has had an effect on all of our lives. I think that's what people are saying? 

the holocaust was another tragic episode and while not forgetting
they have also empowered themselves to go on - i don't hear "lack of achievement" being blamed on the holocaust - if anything it's a fortifier
The things Jews and "jewish" people have going for them is one common religion. Africans around the world only have one thing in common with each other...the color of their skin. Problem is, many don't want to be associated with such an organization of people. They think it limits us and them. If all Black people (of African descent) got together and agreed on a "culture" of living, we would have achieve much more...but we don't stick together like such.

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Does it really affect us? you think Australians sit around talking about being the descendents of prisoners?

Why is our whole being in regards to how whites and Europeans see us and have treated us? I am happy with who I am. I love Jamaican culture and American culture as it is with it's diversity, mainly African influences.

I maintain that it's not about slavery but about racial harassment and discrimination. You will never get whites to feel sorry for the past particularly because many see themselves as superior period.

If all you define yourself and your history as is as a descendent of a slave then you will always feel inferior, no matter how much you claim you don't, to whites.

Why not focus on the future? Why do Jamaicans laud the contributions of Arawaks(who are mostly dead), Asians and different European groups but never their african selves? Why are blacks in the west so concerned with how native americans are treated meanwhile native shun blacks and we are living in white supremacy societies(which means we will have it worse).

We are not africans. We are not slaves, we are not all descendents of slaves. Give it a rest, get some self-esteem and stop giving white people so much power over us MY GOD!

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so we, blacks, sit around talking about it without going forward....it consumes us, this discussion, that is, that we r stymied in taking any action of any sort....or the memory is wat paralyzes us ?

an we, blacks, that is, r being stagnant, wen we try to reconcile the true history of Africa wid di crap we have been taught, over the years....but , wen Jews etc maintain that the truth be remembered, that is forward of them

because, unlike us, they have moved forward while simultaneously honouring their past, while we have stood still, remembering the past and having enjoyed no forward thinking

and the relatively recent penal history of Australia is on par with the history of Africa

and as long as it has to do wid black, it is backwards, non progressive and stagnant...no tru...cause look to the mighty white, who course and history , though shorter than ours, and built on ours, in a myriad of ways, is the ongle real history of note, progress etc

a keep saying dem need a shaking head graemlin ..

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I agree we need to dispel all the lies taught in the west about Africa (because it's a really huge continent with diverse people most of whom are beautiful and have a rich culture) however it's counter-productive at the same time to think of our history only in terms of slavery and Africa. We are descendents of Africans but that is not our whole history. When I think black history I think of the music, cultures, food, our unique hair texture and bodies and then maybe the struggle against white racism by many elders and so on. But I don't first thing slavery and oppression and white people and they've treated us and how they feel about us and how they so and so, it's counterproductive.

Why don't we have our own little bollywood that our kids can watch and learn about africa through games and cartoons like Dora the explorer explores latin america? Where are the major owned black radio stations and black media so we can count on getting a less biased report from our black media. Those are the real questions because I was never a slave and while I'm primarily of African descent in the west I refuse to think of my whole being as a former slave or descendent of slaves and being 'misplaced' here when blacks helped build the US, have made Jamaica what it is and so on.

Jews use the holocaust and the legacy of anti-semitism as a catalyst to be united and progress, I've never met ONE in all my years that acted like a victim of any one group. White people still don't give a hoot, especially Europeans, they will never genuinely feel any remorse because so many still hold those same superiority views. Why do they feel superior? Because they see how their society operates vs ours. They see how wealthy they are vs our nations and society. Why should I get angry and give this group of people power over me, and let them define who I am as a human being.

**una nina** · 11-28-2006, 08:18 PM

Re: If slavery never happened

Evan, she don't get it either! [img]/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

**Seveen** · 11-28-2006, 08:19 PM

Re: If slavery never happened

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sorry to hear that u think that way about urself and ur race....

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well you make it sound like - the europeans overpowered us, enslaved us - and we've fallen and can't get up

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actually i would say that ur views exhibit that

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i have moved forward - and continue to move forward and while acknowledging slavery - it has no impact on me - 'cause the job needs to be done to move our people forward - and anytime you reflect on slavery - you're in the past not forward - reflecting on what could have been - manna from heaven [img]/forums/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif[/img] - we're here now

i have never had anything denied to me because i was a slave - or black even
so maybe that's why i have a different perspective - or maybe my perspective has pulled me through

over and out [img]/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

**evanovitch** · 11-28-2006, 08:20 PM

Re: If slavery never happened

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how were they able to take over the continent?
I don't think they took over the continent. Europeans DID take over many parts of Africa. Once case is S. Africa. The europeans that settled there built up their own little village. They started, little by little, setting up a government and laying down rules that would strangle the native Africans there. They used psychological tactics. They were very quiet and methodical in their take over of the entire system. Before the people looked up, they were banned and living in squalor...

Africans were known to be non-judgemental and were the type of people that would take from other cultures and make it their own (Christianity and Islam are prime examples). An unhealthy TRUST of others caused some of the destruction of Africa.

This is one way in which the europeans and middle easterners "took over." 

and the pressure and control is in our own minds
only us can free our minds
and blaming our lot on slavery is not freeing your mind
 I don't think people are "blaming their lot" on slavery, but you have to admit that it has had an effect on all of our lives. I think that's what people are saying? 

the holocaust was another tragic episode and while not forgetting
they have also empowered themselves to go on - i don't hear "lack of achievement" being blamed on the holocaust - if anything it's a fortifier
The things Jews and "jewish" people have going for them is one common religion. Africans around the world only have one thing in common with each other...the color of their skin. Problem is, many don't want to be associated with such an organization of people. They think it limits us and them. If all Black people (of African descent) got together and agreed on a "culture" of living, we would have achieve much more...but we don't stick together like such.

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

Does it really affect us? you think Australians sit around talking about being the descendents of prisoners?

Why is our whole being in regards to how whites and Europeans see us and have treated us? I am happy with who I am. I love Jamaican culture and American culture as it is with it's diversity, mainly African influences.

I maintain that it's not about slavery but about racial harassment and discrimination. You will never get whites to feel sorry for the past particularly because many see themselves as superior period.

If all you define yourself and your history as is as a descendent of a slave then you will always feel inferior, no matter how much you claim you don't, to whites.

Why not focus on the future? Why do Jamaicans laud the contributions of Arawaks(who are mostly dead), Asians and different European groups but never their african selves? Why are blacks in the west so concerned with how native americans are treated meanwhile native shun blacks and we are living in white supremacy societies(which means we will have it worse).

We are not africans. We are not slaves, we are not all descendents of slaves. Give it a rest, get some self-esteem and stop giving white people so much power over us MY GOD!

[/ QUOTE ]

so we, blacks, sit around talking about it without going forward....it consumes us, this discussion, that is, that we r stymied in taking any action of any sort....or the memory is wat paralyzes us ?

an we, blacks, that is, r being stagnant, wen we try to reconcile the true history of Africa wid di crap we have been taught, over the years....but , wen Jews etc maintain that the truth be remembered, that is forward of them

because, unlike us, they have moved forward while simultaneously honouring their past, while we have stood still, remembering the past and having enjoyed no forward thinking

and the relatively recent penal history of Australia is on par with the history of Africa

and as long as it has to do wid black, it is backwards, non progressive and stagnant...no tru...cause look to the mighty white, who course and history , though shorter than ours, and built on ours, in a myriad of ways, is the ongle real history of note, progress etc

a keep saying dem need a shaking head graemlin ..

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree we need to dispel all the lies taught in the west about Africa (because it's a really huge continent with diverse people most of whom are beautiful and have a rich culture) however it's counter-productive at the same time to think of our history only in terms of slavery and Africa. We are descendents of Africans but that is not our whole history. When I think black history I think of the music, cultures, food, our unique hair texture and bodies and then maybe the struggle against white racism by many elders and so on. But I don't first thing slavery and oppression and white people and they've treated us and how they feel about us and how they so and so, it's counterproductive.

Why don't we have our own little bollywood that our kids can watch and learn about africa through games and cartoons like Dora the explorer explores latin america? Where are the major owned black radio stations and black media so we can count on getting a less biased report from our black media. Those are the real questions because I was never a slave and while I'm primarily of African descent in the west I refuse to think of my whole being as a former slave or descendent of slaves and being 'misplaced' here when blacks helped build the US, have made Jamaica what it is and so on.

Jews use the holocaust and the legacy of anti-semitism as a catalyst to be united and progress, I've never met ONE in all my years that acted like a victim of any one group. White people still don't give a hoot, especially Europeans, they will never genuinely feel any remorse because so many still hold those same superiority views. Why do they feel superior? Because they see how their society operates vs ours. They see how wealthy they are vs our nations and society.

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and the more u type, the more u exhibit how tied up u r with juss that one period of ur history...u define Africa and all things African as it relates to white history...aka the slave trade...an u decry Africa because u cannot view it absent the selfhatred u feel....and u decry any discussion of the period because u dont want to see juss how limited u r in ur own definition ...

**Seveen** · 11-28-2006, 08:23 PM

Re: If slavery never happened

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
and you may have heard me tell this story before

when i visited Kenya - i had people apologizing to me for slavery - while trying to take my money and me for a ride (thank goodness i have travel experience)

i told them no need to apologize to me because i knew i was a Queen

that my ancestors made it through the Middle Passage (i know you know how many didn't)

that i made it through slavery, Jim Crow

and i had made it all the way back to Africa

and it didn't look like they had done very much while i was gone

and they BOAL and said that's the truth - while listening to my reggae CDs and checking out my JA "veggies"

thanks for the stimulating conversation - kinda sick of dear k and the general discussion crap that's been going on lately [img]/forums/images/graemlins/70459-hugs.gif[/img]

and i'm going to check out that author [img]/forums/images/graemlins/bannana_purple.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

and that is the sum total of ur african experience and ur appreciation of 'African History'...remarkable....and it was ur Jamaican novelties that gave u entree...none that u brought from ur own experiences in ur own country....but u r still a queen indeed ...and they laughed an agreed with u but were not laughing at u ....got u indeed

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so you would return to africa with the humble thanks to be home former slave mentality??

**una nina** · 11-28-2006, 08:24 PM

Re: If slavery never happened

Evan, come here! **extending hand and giving a big hug** [img]/forums/images/graemlins/70459-hugs.gif[/img] This endeavor is futile! I know you're trying to make a point and teach some things, but I think it's time to just say "nevermind."

For some reason, we're all missing what the other is saying. Go get some dinner and relax yourself! [img]/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

**Serenity82** · 11-28-2006, 08:29 PM

Re: If slavery never happened

I think you're a bit confused. I have no self-hatred. Self-hatred is wanting to define yourself based on how whites think, have acted, have treated us and so on.

You want to discuss the different african histories and cultures, fine! The issue is when we are defined as being former slaves and our whole history reduced to slavery and oppression. That's the problem. Has nothing to do with shame and self-hatred and all to do with loving myself, seeing the beauty in my culture(s),the group I belong to and people's I descend from.

One thing I notice lately is how many whites feel they have this power over black people. Not only do they feel superior but feel they have power over and can do what they want-harass you in the workplace, do what they want. Say what they want. Some blacks reducing our history to slavery is probably one reason why they feel this way.

Honestly, in terms of this topic you and una nina don't sound happy at all, but rather depressed!

I remember whenever negative images came on the tv of africa or about blacks and my mother was nearby she would make some statement about african contributions and the past. She made an effort to mention several times how blacks had created many things but whites had stolen the idea because of the oppression that went on in the past or how many parts of africa were beautiful (although she never went there).

It's about how we educate out youth and it would be a shame if we reduced our culture and history to slavery and white oppression because BEING BLACK IS MUCH MORE THAN THAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

**Seveen** · 11-28-2006, 08:29 PM

Re: If slavery never happened

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
and you may have heard me tell this story before

when i visited Kenya - i had people apologizing to me for slavery - while trying to take my money and me for a ride (thank goodness i have travel experience)

i told them no need to apologize to me because i knew i was a Queen

that my ancestors made it through the Middle Passage (i know you know how many didn't)

that i made it through slavery, Jim Crow

and i had made it all the way back to Africa

and it didn't look like they had done very much while i was gone

and they BOAL and said that's the truth - while listening to my reggae CDs and checking out my JA "veggies"

thanks for the stimulating conversation - kinda sick of dear k and the general discussion crap that's been going on lately [img]/forums/images/graemlins/70459-hugs.gif[/img]

and i'm going to check out that author [img]/forums/images/graemlins/bannana_purple.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

and that is the sum total of ur african experience and ur appreciation of 'African History'...remarkable....and it was ur Jamaican novelties that gave u entree...none that u brought from ur own experiences in ur own country....but u r still a queen indeed ...and they laughed an agreed with u but were not laughing at u ....got u indeed

[/ QUOTE ]

yes a very candid conversation - held with more than one group of people - why should i give my power up - and i saw the Gates show where some Africans almost made him grovel - like African Americans don't have a unique and powerful history of their own - i'm proud of it and happy for the strength of knowing the difficult path

and as for the jamaican things - i traveled from England to Kenya on holiday - the community i lived in the UK was jamaican - when i got to Kenya i didn't even have hot weather clothes to wear - my Kenyan sistren hooked me up - and others invited me to their homes and took me to places of interest - on equal terms

[/ QUOTE ]

and still u dont understand...

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and you're not explaining and i want to know
not trying to one up

so i should feel like what?

**Serenity82** · 11-28-2006, 08:31 PM

Re: If slavery never happened

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
and you may have heard me tell this story before

when i visited Kenya - i had people apologizing to me for slavery - while trying to take my money and me for a ride (thank goodness i have travel experience)

i told them no need to apologize to me because i knew i was a Queen

that my ancestors made it through the Middle Passage (i know you know how many didn't)

that i made it through slavery, Jim Crow

and i had made it all the way back to Africa

and it didn't look like they had done very much while i was gone

and they BOAL and said that's the truth - while listening to my reggae CDs and checking out my JA "veggies"

thanks for the stimulating conversation - kinda sick of dear k and the general discussion crap that's been going on lately [img]/forums/images/graemlins/70459-hugs.gif[/img]

and i'm going to check out that author [img]/forums/images/graemlins/bannana_purple.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

and that is the sum total of ur african experience and ur appreciation of 'African History'...remarkable....and it was ur Jamaican novelties that gave u entree...none that u brought from ur own experiences in ur own country....but u r still a queen indeed ...and they laughed an agreed with u but were not laughing at u ....got u indeed

[/ QUOTE ]

so you would return to africa with the humble thanks to be home former slave mentality??

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that's what it is "former slave mentality" what about the here and now. How we can advance ourselves and help africans and other people of african descent?

**Serenity82** · 11-28-2006, 08:31 PM

Re: If slavery never happened

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Evan, come here! **extending hand and giving a big hug** [img]/forums/images/graemlins/70459-hugs.gif[/img] This endeavor is futile! I know you're trying to make a point and teach some things, but I think it's time to just say "nevermind."

For some reason, we're all missing what the other is saying. Go get some dinner and relax yourself! [img]/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

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are you serious? or kidding?

**una nina** · 11-28-2006, 08:36 PM

Re: If slavery never happened

Both. Apparently, you and Seveen are not understanding where Evan and I are coming from. I say that because of your responses. It's not a big thing. I'm always of the mind to just AGREE TO DISAGREE! It's all good. [img]/forums/images/graemlins/70371-jump.gif[/img]

**Serenity82** · 11-28-2006, 08:39 PM

Re: If slavery never happened

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Both. Apparently, you and Seveen are not understanding where Evan and I are coming from. I say that because of your responses. It's not a big thing. I'm always of the mind to just AGREE TO DISAGREE! It's all good. [img]/forums/images/graemlins/70371-jump.gif[/img]

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So then what on earth then should we be typing about and thinking? Focused on what life would have been like w/out slavery? [img]/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/graemlins/70367-help.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif[/img]

**una nina** · 11-28-2006, 08:47 PM

Re: If slavery never happened

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Both. Apparently, you and Seveen are not understanding where Evan and I are coming from. I say that because of your responses. It's not a big thing. I'm always of the mind to just AGREE TO DISAGREE! It's all good. [img]/forums/images/graemlins/70371-jump.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

So then what on earth then should we be typing about and thinking? Focused on what life would have been like w/out slavery? [img]/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/graemlins/70367-help.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif[/img]

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I cannot tell you or anyone else what to write. MY POINT IS that when you respond, it doesn't fit what i just wrote...but then, maybe that's because it was not really a "reply" to what I wrote, but more of an "addition" to what YOU wrote?

Whatever it is, it's kind of frustrating and I need to cook dinner, straighten up the house and settle in for tonight's "couch potato" session...I can't hang around and debate all night, basically.

I wish we all lived close to one another so that we could have a person-to-person conversation over dinner about this...i think we would understand EACH OTHER better.

For now though, I'm outta here. Peace Serenity! [img]/forums/images/graemlins/70459-hugs.gif[/img]

**Seveen** · 11-28-2006, 08:48 PM

Re: If slavery never happened

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Both. Apparently, you and Seveen are not understanding where Evan and I are coming from. I say that because of your responses. It's not a big thing. I'm always of the mind to just AGREE TO DISAGREE! It's all good. [img]/forums/images/graemlins/70371-jump.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

So then what on earth then should we be typing about and thinking? Focused on what life would have been like w/out slavery? [img]/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/graemlins/70367-help.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

yes please describe what life without slavery would be like right up until 2006 - cause Rodney was talking about the past

and i'm not mad upset or disagreeable - just trying to understand for true

we may be having the breakthrough conversation [img]/forums/images/graemlins/70458-applaud.gif[/img]

If slavery never happened

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