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Should Michael Manley be honoured as a National Hero? Has Michael Manley contribution to Jamaica led to a significantly positive change in its development?
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Re: Michael Manley - National Hero?
Absolutely not... at least not until the Jamaican people have developed the backbone and political savvy they lacked when they were duped into dumping him by the USA/CIA acting in collaboration with home grown traitors.
Michael Manley was heading in one direction, the Jamaican people being misled in the other.
Manley lost the battle for Jamaican independence from United States control and the Jamaican people voted against him and to remain under US control.
Michael Manley might today be a national hero had he not been overthrown but the Jamaican people didn't back him up and so should not consider him a hero.
It would be hypocritical at this point. -
Re: Michael Manley - National Hero?
That is an interesting point of view johnnycakes, it would appear though that the PNP is prepared to milk Manley's legacy for what its worth, even more so when most people now seem to have a greater affinity for Michael than ever in the past. (Of course it could be that PJ has failed so miserably that people yearn for the good old days of Michael)
It is my gut feelings that should the PNP still be in government by the next Heroes Day celebrations in Ocotber, Michael may be declared a national hero, obviously there are political mileage to be gain as well.Comment
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Re: Michael Manley - National Hero?
Michael`s claim to sainthood can be better measured by the state of our fate now in present Jamaica. By virtue that all if not most of us in Jamaica are all better off than the days before his divine presence as Leader of Jamaica and the NWU, yes the pope, Sir Howard Cooke with advice from Saint Percival James must cast the Order of Jamaica on this noble son.
We just have to look out the windows and see the great development taking place.
Investors are grappling for their share in the booming economic enviroment in Jamaica. Others are buying up real estate. The Ja. $ is heading where it was before, of more value than the US $
Bridges and buildings are being mounted all over the urban areas of Jamaica. Hotels, condominiums, offices are rising skywards making lower Manhattan nervous as if another 9/11 is looming in the manifestation of a new super-power other than what is Uncle Sam`s.
No doubt, the people will endorse all these positive things happening for the benefit of our generations to come by voting in the Masters in for a 4th term.
Every 60c out of the $Ja. will turn to 0.06c to paid for our national debt.
Indeed with the pioneering exploits of Michael Manley the soon to be cannonized hero and saint, leaves no doubt in the minds of Jamaicans that without him, we would never be where we are today.
With Percy endorsing every move, we all stand to overtake the achievements of Singapore by the year 2007, when we all will go for the 5th term.
There is a bright glow as we exit the end of the tunnel.
btw. Our welfare benefits now take care of the young and the old.
Senior citizens are given free medical care and they are allowed 1/2 price to events at Jamaica and king`s House.
The young all have access to free education.
Teachers no longer seek other countries to practice their skills. Jamaica pays them well.
Classrooms are full of happy and contented souls all learning to spell better than jodi- Ann and all having ambitions to be technicians, administrators and scientists.
Crime is virtually non-ecistent. People walk all over the place in peace. Iron grills are no longer part of the infrastructure when houses are built.
Police are ever-polite. Their only worry are peak hour traffic jams.
Dons are now seen working honest days wages.
Preachers have it all to be grateful for as collection plates spill over into the pews.
Jamaicans have it all to be happy and completely and unequivocally agree that Michael Manley be declared national hero of Jamaica.Comment
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Re: Michael Manley - National Hero?
Its just a matter of time before Micheal Manley is celebrated as national hero, the negative rhetoric has subsided, and if you look at his funeral alone, and read the historic accounts of the mans life, he is a well known political character with lasting commentary from the third world.
Remember Manley was awarded the UN Gold medal for his exemplary stands against aparathied. Manley is admired by many caribbean nationals, and maybe if it wasn't for PNP stagnation, he wouild have been added to the list of fame already.
I also think they are waiting to name a three way hero award, Manley , Marley, and who knows maybe a sportman in Walsh, or Herbert Mckinely.
I tell you Manley was a visionary and leader par excellence, whether you liked him or not his oratory was brillaint, and his ability to capture the imagination of the nation, motivating the masses was crucial to our social empowerment in the 70's.
Marley and Manley reigned at the same time, Marley a creative artist was hailed abroad first before Jamaicans quint on him, I think because Manley has not been celebrated by internationals at the grass roots level it makes it more challenging to name him hero.
However the intellectuals would agree worldwide that he was a powerhouse of a leader from the third world.
A girlfriend of mine on campus recently told me how she was in a english class with a white american professor, and for some reason politics started and someone mentioned Manley, and the way the professor went on about the man, you would think he was a Comrade with membership at old hope road.
He applauded Manley with such praise, and I know many a university did award him honorary doctorate, in fact some of our diplomatic coups with foreign countries reamain because of the relationship which Manley started with ACP countries, as they tried to bring the southern nations into a non aligned movement.
Again back to his funeral, almost every government was represented, Key figures such as Castro, Andrew Young,Farrakhan, Trudeau,Jimmey Carter, and almost all caribbean heads of Government, being hailed as one of the largest funeral ever held in Kingston.
Tributes trickled in from every nation of the world as almost all News networks highlighted his passing. This was for a leader whow as no longer prime minister or whow as not actively involved in politics for several years, but no one had forgotten him.
I say yes Manley for national hero along with Bob Marley, and maybe I would even go with Herb as well, because the sports hall of fame need to be remembered, its part of our strengths and firing point as a nation.
Remember the Joshie already exist as Manley is on the $1000 bill and that is a sign, he is also in Heroes park already both his remains, and a new 4 month old shrine, with major memorial scholarships that mark his name, and the park beside PNP headquarters is in his honour so, Manley will be a hero, unless some badmind JLP son of a gun, try to see that it doesn't happen.Comment
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Re: Michael Manley - National Hero?
Originally posted by Ackee:
Should Michael Manley be honoured as a National Hero? Has Michael Manley contribution to Jamaica led to a significantly positive change in its development?
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Ackee, I personally think that it is much too soon to even contemplate that Michael would be considered for National Hero status. Enough time has not yet elapsed to judge the effects of his stewardship of Jamaica during his tenure as PM.
Bob Marley has departed for quite a while now, and was proclaimed a National Hero. Maybe its not yet official, because he is not yet included among those we know of, as shown on the list. Check link below. ....We all know that politics seem to govern or taint almost everything in Jamaica, but elevating someone to National Heroism, should be void of partisanship, which in Jamaica may be problematic and difficult to do.
If we are not careful, we could end up with every succeding Prime Minister being automatically made a "national hero". (LOL) It would only be a matter of time before EDDIE, followed by PJ would be there!! and the list could go on and on...Soon and very soon, we could be running out of space to put our NATIONAL HEROES. [img]/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]
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Re: Michael Manley - National Hero?
uhm...Pilot:
Are you supporting his recognition as a National Hero based on-
1) the size of his funeral and depth of attendants
2) his impact on internaional issues, such as apartheid and ACP
3) the "historic account" of his life
4) the fact that his image is already on the J$1000 bill
5) he is buried at Heroes Circle..btw so is Ranny Williams and victims of the Eventide Home fire.
6) a 4 month old plaque in his memory whose inscription as since fallen off
????????? [img]/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]
I am utterly lost as to how any of those would have indicate contributions to Jamaica that led to a significantly positive change in its development.
Barosa:
Bob Marley was never declared a National Hero.
"It would only be a matter of time before EDDIE, followed by PJ would be there!! and the list could go on and on...Soon and very soon, we could be running out of space to put our NATIONAL HEROES."
Now that would be bloody funny [img]/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] but surely they could open a second Heroes Park in say Mobay, to take charge of any overflowing heroes!
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Re: Michael Manley - National Hero?
OF COURSE Michael Manley should be made into a National Hero!!
(quod hops from hoof to hoof in exitement, telling the story)
Just remember, he was the one who almost DIED leading the rest of us in the rebellion which threw Mr. Jones off the farm!! [img]/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]
Surely my friends, you don't want Mr. Jones back, do you??? This is why we need heroes like him to inspire us to future greatness!!Comment
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Re: Michael Manley - National Hero?
DWL... [img]/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] hold up, was that Napolean? [img]/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]
Animal Farm ~ George OrwellComment
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Re: Michael Manley - National Hero?
Ackee recognition don't just drop on people for no reason.
Just Like Hugh Crosskill, Just like Martin Luther King, Just like Mandela, in many ways Micheal Manley did his part in moving Jamaica and humanity forward.
I am also saying that funeral of his size where people were not bused in, or sponcered a plane ticket, shows that many respect the man and those are signs of masses celebrating a hero.
A hero is normally celebrated in his own country and other countries, Manley has that distinction.
To say his picture is on the bill, is to say Jamaicans already welcomed him, because they could have said we don't want nuh ole dictator or brutal oppressor on we money, not that the government would listen at first but when we want or don't want something you know.
Seaga is far away from hero, the only way that happen is unless Jamaica's democratic institutions are fully arrested by drug dons and discriminatory partisan labourites.Or he does wonders to the GDP, while getting us out of debt,and leading a social progression equlled to that of the 1970's.
That is not possible because he doesn't have the resource or appeal to do so and he is not in Jamaica house.
As for Patterson, we will have to watch how well the new infrastructure laid down stand up and if his successor acredit any future progress to his efforts.Comment
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Re: Michael Manley - National Hero?
Puppa if yuh waan hero worship smaddy because dem get big funeral and deh pon dollar bill,gwaan through. All now you haven't say how has "Micheal Manley did his part in moving Jamaica and humanity forward"
Manley's face on a dollar bill,without any major protest (afterall there were protest!)in itself does not equates to the people accepting him as a hero.
"...unless Jamaica's democratic institutions are fully arrested by drug dons"
All I will say is that you obviously have been away from Jamaica too long,to think that this hasn't already happened. Seaga, and the JLP is no more drug-tainted than the PNP, trust mi!Comment
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Re: Michael Manley - National Hero?
Maybe we should make Willie Hagart a national hero,he certainly had the trappings of a state funeral,in the National Arena no less!
Bob Marley would certainly be a shoo-in, his funeral was attended by people from all walks of life, from all over the world...and he help to advance humanity!Comment
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Re: Michael Manley - National Hero?
I have answered that question before and just a few minutes ago on this forum, but not in this thread and because of your uncessary nuiance, I will refrain from saying anymore on the hero award because you start a thread and want people to partake but then you get drunk and are now trying to use intimidating rhetoric.
I worship no manmade hero, whether national or international. But I see evidence of Manley becoming a hero just by how his life was played out and how he has been received during his life and death.
As for seaga his credibility has gone and that is why he couldn't win an election in 1993, or 1997.
The JLP leaders life is tainted, economically he is indebted, and as for his political life he is one defined and archived as being comfortably placed in practicing democracy under the gun.
PJ Patterson hold no such distinction, whether locally or internationally.
and Ackee breath Before you get so hyper read with reason and don't move to insult unecessarily.Cause you definately don't want people to start doing that to you would you.Comment
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Re: Michael Manley - National Hero?
Lol..Pilot, first if you take my saying that you are hero-worshipping as an insult,I apologise.
You claim to have answered the question inanother thread is at least confusing,why would you rationally answer a question posed in one thread in another? Beside I have all of your posts today and have failed to see where you have given anymore than what you stated in this thread.
I merely ask ask that you clarify your position for supporting a recognition of hero on Manley, but alas without any form of elaboration you merely repeat what you already mentioned.
In respect to Seaga, how did he came into this discussion? Is it that one has to denigrate Seaga to uplift Manley? Would that be an indication of how good he is? To say Mussolini is not as bad as Hitler, doesn't make Mussolini worthy of hero-ship, now does it? Seaga is not the issue here. Surely if you wish, a post can always be created stringing up Seaga like a pinata.
*hic*Comment
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Re: Michael Manley - National Hero?
Ackee you don't read very well, but anyhow, let me not go there, your style in communicating doesn't sound reasonable, as your rhetoric was showing insult but anyhow.Below is my take on Manley contribution.
The record shows he was a socialist, everything you see on the ground and behind the scenes or in public was socialist in nature, and its because he had a conscience why this happen.
How could any Prime Minister at that time in our history not be concened about social infrastructure. The people were illiterate, how can you build a economy without skilled labour and professionals.
Manley had to try and get the primary secondary and tertiary level going, while making workers not feel discouraged as the work place was changing. Only Manleys brillaince could have forcefully got Jamaicas to atleast buy into a self reliance and social empowerment theme, and without that revolution our supper would have been eaten off long ago.
That social revolution because of the PNP loyalist made for greater equity and balance in how Jamaica would have moved forward, breaking down the barriers between the upper middle class and working class and helping the integration process eventually made for a stabler country.
It doesn't look like that from the history books, but if we din't have a social revolution backed by political leadership and academia, the media, then our people would have gotten more rebellious.
Don't we understand what Jamaica is, its a complex country, it have different races, different philosopies, different religion, we needed some unity and Manley by advocating social integration was saying lets all play, lets all work together and eat together, asking all to be involved in a partnership was good, but the capital protectors didn't want to share their loot with the masses, they didn't want all of us to be on the same level even if it meant better for all, they were the ones who sold us out, the business people, manufacturers, and middle class professionals, who didn't want to see a bus system that all could take to work succeed, cause dem want their own too.
Its that integration effort that has balanced and make for stability, yes now we have more black boys at Jamaica College than ever, and we have a university that takes ghetto and not just Jacks Hill, Hope pastures, Beverly Hills, Barbican types.
Do you realise what would happen if that didn;t take place. Jamaica would be more divided, as race and money would decide everything.We always fail to see the little things, all we want to see is wealth in the form of GDP and even countries who boast that don't have the enormous solidarity that we have as a people.
Just check the Trini story, Check the Barbadian story, check the Black Americans story, check the South Africans story....
Can u imagine if Eddie Seaga was in power in the 1970's what would have happened, or if he was to have seized power forcefully.
That is why I applaud all involve because mistakes were made but it could have gotten out of control until we really sinked.
Look at Haiti's condition, look at Brazil's condition, and Argentina.
Integration is a buzz word now and social engineering, we did that long time ago, we aborted it or are now reversing it but atleast history will recall that we did have a social revolution and it was authored by the Peoples National Party and Micheal Manley in the 1970's.
One cannot fail to note that Michael's vision for labour developed beyond immediate concerns of wages and working conditions to embrace broader questions of worker power. His fraternal relations with Hugh Shearer of the BITU, and they jointly bargaining with the sugar and bauxite industries, spoke of an approach in which Trade Union rivalry was subordinated to the broader interests of the workers.
Michael Manley proposals for worker participation in management - a programme that was adopted as official policy in the 1970s and resurrected in the 1990s in the form of an Employee Share Ownership Scheme speaks volumes about a country that was doing things that the first world didn't start to think about until mass immigration and globalisation.
After his election to the Party leadership in 1969 it was Michael Manley who firmly held together a remarkable coalition of PNP old guard, young black nationalists, socialist populists and disenchanted capitalists, to sweep the polls in 1972.
So before he even got to the national stage he tried to partner with different segments within his party.
His aim was to drastically reduce unemployment, poverty and inequality; to distribute government land to landless small farmers; to guarantee the rights of workers, women, and children born out of wedlock; to provide training and educational opportunities for the disadvantaged and excluded, and to arrest the powerbase of economic domination and control from the multinational corporations and the local elite.
Did he complete his aim ...partially he did and would have been more sucessful if the evil element had not gotten into the mix
But many don't like folks with a social conscience, they don't like people who have mercy, who when in power try to straighten out kinks, and help the small man to a safer ground.
One could easily say he developed his own philosphy or ideaology, and that was what made many afraid of him, and caused such paranoia as his spontaneous leadership made is hard to determine if Jamaica was going to be communist like cuba.
His unpredictable outburst led to them taking the 5 flights to miami, and now they are still around... thanx to the internet... haughting us, they still bugging us... gettin into our Jamaican affairs after such treachery.
Selfish greedy monsters, that just want to secure their own and nothing for anyone else.
So ackee in a nutshell the man brought together those who were really serious about Jamaica's welfare whether we were going to be poorer or richer, he was a nationalist, and so a defender of Jamaica, he was a black conscious man, and so he tried for greater racial equality, in Africa, while making sure Jamaica as a black country got involved in world leadership at a time when nobody gave us ratings.
He also was a champion of minority interests, whether directly or indirectly, the small man, the small island was always echoed, and brought to prominence in his policies, never left out.
He was also a caribbean man, getting involved in Cricket even when he didn't play to write a wonderful book in the form of a History of west indies Cricket.
Manley author ,Statesman, labour leader,freedom fighter, son of a Jamaican prime minister and Jamaican artist had alot to overcome and he did it with courage, grit and determination, while flying the Jamaican flag to his grave.
I remember in his last interview before hsi death he was still concerned about how Jamaica is going to deal with the new realities, she faced while on his death bed.
Not many leaders are like that, in fact when he returned to power in 1989, he was one of a few leader worldwide who have been rushed out of office by a landslide no confidence vote locally and internationally and returned to the helm of national governance, while pleading for forgiveness for mistakes made.
Many leaders won't even tell u that they made a mistake, he was genuine, even while stubborn, and he tried vigourously to pull us while authoring ourway through our committment and willpower into the innercircle of world affairs, not just for show but to play our part in integrating and breaking down barriers economic, social, and psychological.Comment
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