Michael Manley - National Hero?

[Roses]

Re: Michael Manley - National Hero?

Michael had a good heart, and he loved Jamaica -- as it was, and as he hoped it could be -- and he loved Jamaicans, all his life. He had some character flaws -- who doesn't? -- and he also came to power at an inopportune time for implementing his vision for Jamaica; we will never forget the '74 oil price rise and its effect on the local economy, and all that flowed from that. He did his best, under the circumstances. He worked so hard, and gave his best. He wore himself out in service to Jamaica.

I just wish it would not be PJ's government that would confer the status of National Hero upon him. That seems to me too cynical and manipulative.

[Fledgist]

Re: Michael Manley - National Hero?

Originally posted by Ackee:
[qb]Should Michael Manley be honoured as a National Hero? Has Michael Manley contribution to Jamaica led to a significantly positive change in its development?[/qb]

Well, we have a National Hero who may or may not have existed -- Nanny -- and another -- George William Gordon -- whose major contribution was to have been murdered by order of a kangaroo court.

Michael Manley, as a thoughtful inspirer of action, certainly ranks up there with Garvey, and probably above his own father. Is that enough? I don't know.

[Fledgist]

Re: Michael Manley - National Hero?

Originally posted by quodlibet:
[qb]OF COURSE Michael Manley should be made into a National Hero!!

(quod hops from hoof to hoof in exitement, telling the story)

Just remember, he was the one who almost DIED leading the rest of us in the rebellion which threw Mr. Jones off the farm!! [img]/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Surely my friends, you don't want Mr. Jones back, do you??? This is why we need heroes like him to inspire us to future greatness!![/qb]

Michael, for all his faults, never believed that some were more equal than others.

[Dyoll]

Re: Michael Manley - National Hero?

Originally posted by Fledgist:
[qb]Michael Manley, as a thoughtful inspirer of action, certainly ranks up there with Garvey, and probably above his own father. Is that enough? [/qb]

I think Jamaica should wait for another 20 years perhaps when all the 'dust' is settled and Manley's record can be viewed dispationately. Then, I hope, a sound decision can be made as to whether he be conferred with National Hero.

I can't help but notice that the PNP is trying to score some political points with this thing. Afterall, Manley, even in death, is held in high esteem by a large number of Jamaicans. In 1997, if they could walk from the funeral into a polling station, the PNP would have won by an even greater landslide than they did in that year.

[remo]

Re: Michael Manley - National Hero?

originally posted by Quodlibet
_________________________________________________
Well, we have a National Hero who may or may not have existed -- Nanny -- and another -- George William Gordon -- whose major contribution was to have been murdered by order of a kangaroo court.
Michael Manley, as a thoughtful inspirer of action, certainly ranks up there with Garvey, and probably above his own father. Is that enough? I don't know.
_________________________________________________
Yes thats enough

[Ackee]

Re: Michael Manley - National Hero?

Read your post Pilot [img]/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Ok guys which one of you been up to this mischieve?

National hero wanted

THE EDITOR, Sir:

A DYNAMIC independent country established since 1962 seeks the service of a national hero. This individual must be versed in bringing people together and preventing tribalism. He or she must be willing to put the country first at all cost.

This individual must have a vision and the ability to motivate people to work towards a common goal. The fear of God would be an asset. This job is very challenging therefore anyone falling short of being a hero need not apply.

Interested and qualified persons can send resume to:

One Love Jamaica, P.O. Box H.E.L.P.

I am, etc.,

E. A. WADDELL

Portmore

St. Catherine

The link

[quodlibet]

Re: Michael Manley - National Hero?

Originally posted by Fledgist:
[qb]

Originally posted by quodlibet:
[qb]OF COURSE Michael Manley should be made into a National Hero!!

(quod hops from hoof to hoof in exitement, telling the story)

Just remember, he was the one who almost DIED leading the rest of us in the rebellion which threw Mr. Jones off the farm!! [img]/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Surely my friends, you don't want Mr. Jones back, do you??? This is why we need heroes like him to inspire us to future greatness!![/qb]

Michael, for all his faults, never believed that some were more equal than others.[/qb]

So, does he become Old Major, and the remaining pigs had simply lost the vision, spending too much time at the trough?

(BTW, does that make Wilmot Perkins "Benjamin"? [img]/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] )

[Fledgist]

Re: Michael Manley - National Hero?

Originally posted by Dyoll:
[qb]

Originally posted by Fledgist:
[qb]Michael Manley, as a thoughtful inspirer of action, certainly ranks up there with Garvey, and probably above his own father. Is that enough? [/qb]

I think Jamaica should wait for another 20 years perhaps when all the 'dust' is settled and Manley's record can be viewed dispationately. Then, I hope, a sound decision can be made as to whether he be conferred with National Hero.

I can't help but notice that the PNP is trying to score some political points with this thing. Afterall, Manley, even in death, is held in high esteem by a large number of Jamaicans. In 1997, if they could walk from the funeral into a polling station, the PNP would have won by an even greater landslide than they did in that year.[/qb]

Remember, NW Manley and Bustamante were made National Heroes while still living. Of course, that does set the precedent. Any PNP hero must be matched by a JLP hero, and vice versa. The thought of EPGS becoming a Rt. Excellent is, shall we say, stomach-turning.

[Fledgist]

Re: Michael Manley - National Hero?

Originally posted by remo:
[qb]originally posted by Quodlibet
_________________________________________________
Well, we have a National Hero who may or may not have existed -- Nanny -- and another -- George William Gordon -- whose major contribution was to have been murdered by order of a kangaroo court.
Michael Manley, as a thoughtful inspirer of action, certainly ranks up there with Garvey, and probably above his own father. Is that enough? I don't know.
_________________________________________________
Yes thats enough[/qb]

With all respect to Quodlibet, I wrote the quote above.

[Fledgist]

Re: Michael Manley - National Hero?

Originally posted by quodlibet:
[qb]

Originally posted by Fledgist:
[qb]

Originally posted by quodlibet:
[qb]OF COURSE Michael Manley should be made into a National Hero!!

(quod hops from hoof to hoof in exitement, telling the story)

Just remember, he was the one who almost DIED leading the rest of us in the rebellion which threw Mr. Jones off the farm!! [img]/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Surely my friends, you don't want Mr. Jones back, do you??? This is why we need heroes like him to inspire us to future greatness!![/qb]

Michael, for all his faults, never believed that some were more equal than others.[/qb]

So, does he become Old Major, and the remaining pigs had simply lost the vision, spending too much time at the trough?

(BTW, does that make Wilmot Perkins "Benjamin"? [img]/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] )[/qb]

Well, he was more like Snowball than Napoleon. As for Mottie, I'm not sure.

[Dyoll]

Re: Michael Manley - National Hero?

Originally posted by Fledgist:
[qb]

Originally posted by Dyoll:
[qb]

Originally posted by Fledgist:
[qb]Michael Manley, as a thoughtful inspirer of action, certainly ranks up there with Garvey, and probably above his own father. Is that enough? [/qb]

I think Jamaica should wait for another 20 years perhaps when all the 'dust' is settled and Manley's record can be viewed dispationately. Then, I hope, a sound decision can be made as to whether he be conferred with National Hero.

I can't help but notice that the PNP is trying to score some political points with this thing. Afterall, Manley, even in death, is held in high esteem by a large number of Jamaicans. In 1997, if they could walk from the funeral into a polling station, the PNP would have won by an even greater landslide than they did in that year.[/qb]

Remember, NW Manley and Bustamante were made National Heroes while still living. Of course, that does set the precedent. Any PNP hero must be matched by a JLP hero, and vice versa. The thought of EPGS becoming a Rt. Excellent is, shall we say, stomach-turning.[/qb]

Busta and Manley should not have been made national heroes in their lifetime - bad precedent. Today, we have a better sense of their accomplishments and failures than their contemporaries, and even those who conferred on them such honors.

I can't agree with you that "any PNP hero must be matched with a JLP hero, and vice versa." Such a process would then be succeptible to partisan motivations, and thus, contrary to the spirit of heroism, as, I'm afraid, is the case with Mr Manley. If he were catholic, perhaps Ronnie Thwaites would have called for his beatification long ago. Of course, he now has his own problems.

[barosa]

Re: Michael Manley - National Hero?

Originally posted by Dyoll:

Busta and Manley should not have been made national heroes in their lifetime - bad precedent. Today, we have a better sense of their accomplishments and failures than their contemporaries, and even those who conferred on them such honors.

I can't agree with you that "any PNP hero must be matched with a JLP hero, and vice versa." Such a process would then be succeptible to partisan motivations, and thus, contrary to the spirit of heroism, as, I'm afraid, is the case with Mr Manley. If he were catholic, perhaps Ronnie Thwaites would have called for his beatification long ago. Of course, he now has his own problems.

**************************************************

We run the risk of trivialising the bestowal of National Hero on worthy Jamaicans if every future Prime Minister is in line to be made one. If this becomes a trend, we could end up being the laughing stock of the world!! with the most National Heroes than any other country in the world.(LOL)....The way this thing looks, and is shaping up, seems to be OVERTLY partisan and politically driven, which aint good.

We all know that POLITICS touches everything in Jamaica, but do we have to politicize the bestowal of our future National Heroes?...To reverse this trend, an independent body should be appointed with the responsibility of this task, before every Tom, Diick, Harry, and Mary in Jamaica, be made National Heroes/Heroines. [img]/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[Ackee]

Re: Michael Manley - National Hero?

There is really is no definite word that Michael would be honoured as a National Hero, I raised the question in light of my own gut feeling and the politcal windfall it would give the PNP, and wanted to explored the reaction if it was to become a reality.

All honours (hero and otherwise) are bestowed through a process of recommendation to a non-political committee...as much as that can be in Jamaica's context...which then review the merits of any honour and grants its approval. In essence then it would not be technically correct to say that "the PNP" or any political party bestowed a honour.

[Fledgist]

Re: Michael Manley - National Hero?

Originally posted by Dyoll:
[qb]

Originally posted by Fledgist:
[qb]

Originally posted by Dyoll:
[qb]

Originally posted by Fledgist:
[qb]Michael Manley, as a thoughtful inspirer of action, certainly ranks up there with Garvey, and probably above his own father. Is that enough? [/qb]

I think Jamaica should wait for another 20 years perhaps when all the 'dust' is settled and Manley's record can be viewed dispationately. Then, I hope, a sound decision can be made as to whether he be conferred with National Hero.

I can't help but notice that the PNP is trying to score some political points with this thing. Afterall, Manley, even in death, is held in high esteem by a large number of Jamaicans. In 1997, if they could walk from the funeral into a polling station, the PNP would have won by an even greater landslide than they did in that year.[/qb]

Remember, NW Manley and Bustamante were made National Heroes while still living. Of course, that does set the precedent. Any PNP hero must be matched by a JLP hero, and vice versa. The thought of EPGS becoming a Rt. Excellent is, shall we say, stomach-turning.[/qb]

Busta and Manley should not have been made national heroes in their lifetime - bad precedent. Today, we have a better sense of their accomplishments and failures than their contemporaries, and even those who conferred on them such honors.

I can't agree with you that "any PNP hero must be matched with a JLP hero, and vice versa." Such a process would then be succeptible to partisan motivations, and thus, contrary to the spirit of heroism, as, I'm afraid, is the case with Mr Manley. If he were catholic, perhaps Ronnie Thwaites would have called for his beatification long ago. Of course, he now has his own problems.[/qb]

Sorry, I didn't make myself clear. The precedent set by the Shearer government in 1969 is that the party in power, should it make a prominent member a National Hero must simultaneously elevate the equivalent member of the opposition.

In a country with party politics, all issues are going to be suffused with partisanship. It's the nature of the beast. The question here is whether appointments can be bipartisan or suprapartisan.

[Dyoll]

Re: Michael Manley - National Hero?

Originally posted by Ackee:
[qb]All honours (hero and otherwise) are bestowed through a process of recommendation to a non-political committee...as much as that can be in Jamaica's context...which then review the merits of any honour and grants its approval. In essence then it would not be technically correct to say that "the PNP" or any political party bestowed a honour.[/qb]

That 'non-political committee' operates under the auspices of the Office of the (most partisan) Governor General (since independence).