Divorce & Remarriage

[Mutty]

Re: Divorce & Remarriage

Originally posted by Compry:
[qb]

Originally posted by Mutty - The return:
[qb]Should they persist in a mess, a lie, a sham in the name of obeying the word just because the problem might not be an extramarital affair? [/qb]

Lack of understanding the Word, maybe? We are human and in our humaness we make mistakes. God knows that and I believe that is why He provided a backup plan.

Thank God for Jesus. [/qb]

What is this 'backup plan?' [img]/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] Is it explained to the Christian in the Bible? Remember, Jesus himself said that a divorce is only allowable if fornication (known adultery) is found out. He gives no other reason.

In Paul's writings, he claims a believer is no longer under bondage (apparently to the marriage commitment) if the UNbeliever walks away. What he does not say is that the believer is to initiate the dissolution. So, we're with more problems than solutions if we actually take the Bible as the sole authority in how we govern our affairs on such matters.

[777]

Re: Divorce & Remarriage

[b]quote:
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Is it OK with God for a Christian woman to continue living in an emotionally and physically abusive relationship?
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No it is not..
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Then why won't some churches permit remarriage?

What u needed to ask is, "what is a person to do at that point"..
My answer/question is "Is remarrying the only solution that is seen for being in an abusive relationship?"

My question here is this, other than remarriage, what other solution would u suggest..

[Guest]

Re: Divorce & Remarriage

Originally posted by 777:
[qb] [b]quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Is it OK with God for a Christian woman to continue living in an emotionally and physically abusive relationship?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


No it is not..
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Then why won't some churches permit remarriage?

What u needed to ask is, "what is a person to do at that point"..
My answer/question is "Is remarrying the only solution that is seen for being in an abusive relationship?"

My question here is this, other than remarriage, what other solution would u suggest.. [/qb]

good question I am anxious to hear some of the responses.

[JesusDread]

Re: Divorce & Remarriage

Lively discussion and some deep questions and answers too.

Now let’s see what the bible says about some of these issues.

It is allowable for one to divorce because of infidelity. Well, once two people separate, even over burnt toast, unless they are both devout adherers to this law, at least one is gonna go ahead with a new relationship which will immediately constitute adultery making it reasonable to think the other party now has grounds for the divorce!

Now to remarry or not! Everybody is familiar with the verse that says it is better to marry than to burn with desire. Does this only apply to virgins? Shouldn’t this advice be for everyone that desires or burns for sexual and emotional attachments? I think so and I don’t think God made rules to keep us in bondage but to guide us. Every rule has exceptions and I think divorced Christians with years ahead of them and are not in church leadership qualifies as such.

Finally, Jesus died on the cross for our SINS, which does include divorce and remarrying so that throws a wrench in all the dogmatic reasoning of the different churches and denominations. While they will make their rules for qualifying for membership, God already made His provision for our forgiveness through His son Jesus, something that many people and denominations preach but seem to struggle with immensely. Jesus Himself said that there is no marrying in heaven, which to me suggests that marriage and the union of a male and female are temporary (earth bound) and will eventually pass away like the other stuff as per 1Cor 13 v 8-10, “when perfection comes the imperfect disappears.”

[Mutty]

Re: Divorce & Remarriage

Originally posted by JesusDread:
[qb] Lively discussion and some deep questions and answers too.
Now let’s see what the bible says about some of these issues.
It is allowable for one to divorce because of infidelity. Well, once two people separate, even over burnt toast, unless they are both devout adherers to this law, at least one is gonna go ahead with a new relationship which will immediately constitute adultery making it reasonable to think the other party now has grounds for the divorce!
Now to remarry or not! Everybody is familiar with the verse that says it is better to marry than to burn with desire. Does this only apply to virgins? Shouldn’t this advice be for everyone that desires or burns for sexual and emotional attachments? I think so and I don’t think God made rules to keep us in bondage but to guide us. Every rule has exceptions and I think divorced Christians with years ahead of them and are not in church leadership qualifies as such.
Finally, Jesus died on the cross for our SINS, which does include divorce and remarrying so that throws a wrench in all the dogmatic reasoning of the different churches and denominations. While they will make their rules for qualifying for membership, God already made His provision for our forgiveness through His son Jesus, something that many people and denominations preach but seem to struggle with immensely. Jesus Himself said that there is no marrying in heaven, which to me suggests that marriage and the union of a male and female are temporary (earth bound) and will eventually pass away like the other stuff as per 1Cor 13 v 8-10, “when perfection comes the imperfect disappears.” [/qb]

Spin doctor Jesus Dread. LOL!!!


What it seems to me you're saying is that people will divorce but Jesus died on the cross to forgive us of our sins so take that into consideration when you breach the marriage contract for reasons other than infidelity. Am I hearing an admission that it is okay to sin (in this case, breaking the marriage contract) but one could fall back on the idea that their sin is already forgiven?

What I am finding here are Christians struggling with a subject that appears cut and dry - no divorce (except for infidelity) and no remarriage to a divorcee. Why would Christians be looking for loopholes the VERY thing they argue with "sinners" about when it comes to the "word of God?" Why think? Why wonder? Why challenge and look for "outs" on something that Jesus gives no indication of other allowances to? Of course common sense would say otherwise, but when critics exercise it in other portions of the Bible they are rebuked for not having faith and trying to twist the word of God to suit their purposes or ridicule it as not to follow it.

I certainly understand what is being stated and what is being asked and I sympathize with people who find themselves in hopeless marriages, but how does a Christian deal with this strict regulation Jesus gives? He does not give ANY indication it is okay to divorce for reasons outside of infidelity and that one do so but just fall back on his grace. Imagine trying that with other things?

[JesusDread]

Re: Divorce & Remarriage

Originally posted by Mutty - The return:
[qb] Spin doctor Jesus Dread. LOL!!!

What it seems to me you're saying is that people will divorce but Jesus died on the cross to forgive us of our sins so take that into consideration when you breach the marriage contract for reasons other than infidelity. Am I hearing an admission that it is okay to sin (in this case, breaking the marriage contract) but one could fall back on the idea that their sin is already forgiven?

What I am finding here are Christians struggling with a subject that appears cut and dry - no divorce (except for infidelity) and no remarriage to a divorcee. Why would Christians be looking for loopholes the VERY thing they argue with "sinners" about when it comes to the "word of God?" Why think? Why wonder? Why challenge and look for "outs" on something that Jesus gives no indication of other allowances to? Of course common sense would say otherwise, but when critics exercise it in other portions of the Bible they are rebuked for not having faith and trying to twist the word of God to suit their purposes or ridicule it as not to follow it.

I certainly understand what is being stated and what is being asked and I sympathize with people who find themselves in hopeless marriages, but how does a Christian deal with this strict regulation Jesus gives? He does not give ANY indication it is okay to divorce for reasons outside of infidelity and that one do so but just fall back on his grace. Imagine trying that with other things? [/qb]

Forgiveness through repentance is not an excuse or license to sin but a provision made for the saved and the faithful sinner. Repentance removes the guilt only if the sin is stopped. In the case of divorce or remarrying, the sin is not a continual such as living in abomination, it is committed once, at the time it was decided. This sin is not reversible like lifestyle sins, so it is forgiven and forgotten by God when repentance has been made.

All sins are forgivable, including homosexuality, murder, multiple marriages or divorce when they are stopped or not practiced any more. The only unforgivable sin is to blaspheme the Holy Spirit, some thing many of you should be more worried about!

Matt 12:30-32 "He who is not with me is against me (including people and churches that play hardball with things our wise and merciful God has already forgiven), and he who does not gather with me scatters. And so I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. 32 Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.

[Mutty]

Re: Divorce & Remarriage

Originally posted by JesusDread:
[qb]

Originally posted by Mutty - The return:
[qb] Spin doctor Jesus Dread. LOL!!!
What it seems to me you're saying is that people will divorce but Jesus died on the cross to forgive us of our sins so take that into consideration when you breach the marriage contract for reasons other than infidelity. Am I hearing an admission that it is okay to sin (in this case, breaking the marriage contract) but one could fall back on the idea that their sin is already forgiven?
What I am finding here are Christians struggling with a subject that appears cut and dry - no divorce (except for infidelity) and no remarriage to a divorcee. Why would Christians be looking for loopholes the VERY thing they argue with "sinners" about when it comes to the "word of God?" Why think? Why wonder? Why challenge and look for "outs" on something that Jesus gives no indication of other allowances to? Of course common sense would say otherwise, but when critics exercise it in other portions of the Bible they are rebuked for not having faith and trying to twist the word of God to suit their purposes or ridicule it as not to follow it.
I certainly understand what is being stated and what is being asked and I sympathize with people who find themselves in hopeless marriages, but how does a Christian deal with this strict regulation Jesus gives? He does not give ANY indication it is okay to divorce for reasons outside of infidelity and that one do so but just fall back on his grace. Imagine trying that with other things? [/qb]

Forgiveness through repentance is not an excuse or license to sin but a provision made for the saved and the faithful sinner. Repentance removes the guilt only if the sin is stopped. In the case of divorce or remarrying, the sin is not a continual such as living in abomination, it is committed once, at the time it was decided. This sin is not reversible like lifestyle sins, so it is forgiven and forgotten by God when repentance has been made.
All sins are forgivable, including homosexuality, murder, multiple marriages or divorce when they are stopped or not practiced any more. The only unforgivable sin is to blaspheme the Holy Spirit, some thing many of you should be more worried about!
Matt 12:30-32 "He who is not with me is against me (including people and churches that play hardball with things our wise and merciful God has already forgiven), and he who does not gather with me scatters. And so I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. 32 Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.
[/qb]

Interesting. So you can willfully sin in this case and then seek forgiveness??? What then is to stop anyone and everyone (that is Christian and in a marriage) from divorcing if this is all they need to do?

[JesusDread]

Re: Divorce & Remarriage

Originally posted by Mutty - The return:
[qb] Interesting. So you can willfully sin in this case and then seek forgiveness??? What then is to stop anyone and everyone (that is Christian and in a marriage) from divorcing if this is all they need to do? [/qb]

What is to stop you is the genuineness of your making Jesus Lord of your life. While we can fool man, we cannot fool God and if your heart is not right, God knows and will judge you accordingly. Everyone will stand before the judgment seat one day, even born-again Christians, where they will be judged according to the way they lived and rewarded as such. For the unsaved there is only one reward and that is the final, spiritual, death.

Spiritual eternity will be lived on a much higher plane than this one and there will obviously be different stations and privileges, indicated by the fact that there will be rewards for the way we live our lives on earth. God did not elaborate on these as they are not for this life, He does however elaborate on what is available for us here and how godly living qualifies you for it. It’s all in His word for everyone to read and be blessed by.

[Guest]

Re: Divorce & Remarriage

Received this from my Pastor with a note that we will further discuss it tomorrow. I will report back with his views. I do know that we performs wedding ceremonies for divorcees and so I'd like to explore that subject with him.

Taken from the Pentecostal Assemblies of Canada, General Constitution and By-Laws of which we are associated with:

5.9.2 DIVORCE
We believe that divorce is not God's intention. It is God's concession to the "hardness of men's hearts." Matt. 19:8

We, therefore, discourage divorce by all lawful means and teaching. Our objective is reconciliation and the healing of the marital union wherever possible. Marital unfaithfulness should not be considered so much an occasion or opportunity for divorce but rather an opportunity for Christian grace, forgiveness, and restoration. Divorce in our society is a termination of a marriage through a legal process authorized by the State. While the church recognizes this legal process as an appropriate means to facilitate the permanent separation of spouses, the church restricts the idea of divorce, in the sense of dissolution of marriage, to reasons specified in Scripture.

The weight of the biblical record is negative and the explicit statement is made, "God hates divorce.(Mal. 2:16)" Divorce is more than an action of the courts which breaks the legal contract between partners in a marriage. It is also the fracture of a unique human relationship between a male and a female. Divorce has profound consequences for the children. Divorce is evidence of the sinful nature expressed in human failure. Jesus gives one explicit cause for the dissolution of marriage: porneia or marital unfaithfulness.
Where all attempts at reconciliation have failed and a divorce has been finalized, we extend Christ's love and compassion.

5.9.3 REMARRIAGE
Remarriage is the union, legally sanctioned by the State, of a man and woman, one or both of whom have been previously married. It is regarded as acceptable in Scripture in the event of the death of a former spouse. It is also regarded as acceptable if there has been sexual immorality on the part of the former partner or if the former partner has remarried.

[Mutty]

Re: Divorce & Remarriage

Originally posted by JesusDread:
[qb]

Originally posted by Mutty - The return:
[qb] Interesting. So you can willfully sin in this case and then seek forgiveness??? What then is to stop anyone and everyone (that is Christian and in a marriage) from divorcing if this is all they need to do? [/qb]

What is to stop you is the genuineness of your making Jesus Lord of your life. While we can fool man, we cannot fool God and if your heart is not right, God knows and will judge you accordingly. Everyone will stand before the judgment seat one day, even born-again Christians, where they will be judged according to the way they lived and rewarded as such. For the unsaved there is only one reward and that is the final, spiritual, death.
Spiritual eternity will be lived on a much higher plane than this one and there will obviously be different stations and privileges, indicated by the fact that there will be rewards for the way we live our lives on earth. God did not elaborate on these as they are not for this life, He does however elaborate on what is available for us here and how godly living qualifies you for it. It’s all in His word for everyone to read and be blessed by. [/qb]

In all this, all you have done is answered my question with yet another question. Thanks.

[JesusDread]

Re: Divorce & Remarriage

Originally posted by Mutty - The return:
[qb]

Originally posted by JesusDread:
[qb]

Originally posted by Mutty - The return:
[qb] Interesting. So you can willfully sin in this case and then seek forgiveness??? What then is to stop anyone and everyone (that is Christian and in a marriage) from divorcing if this is all they need to do? [/qb]

What is to stop you is the genuineness of your making Jesus Lord of your life. While we can fool man, we cannot fool God and if your heart is not right, God knows and will judge you accordingly. Everyone will stand before the judgment seat one day, even born-again Christians, where they will be judged according to the way they lived and rewarded as such. For the unsaved there is only one reward and that is the final, spiritual, death.
Spiritual eternity will be lived on a much higher plane than this one and there will obviously be different stations and privileges, indicated by the fact that there will be rewards for the way we live our lives on earth. God did not elaborate on these as they are not for this life, He does however elaborate on what is available for us here and how godly living qualifies you for it. It’s all in His word for everyone to read and be blessed by. [/qb]

In all this, all you have done is answered my question with yet another question. Thanks. [/qb]

How yu mean mi ansa yu question wid question?

The only answer I left out was NO, you cannot wilfully sin and then seek forgiveness because your repentance would not be genuine!

Read over the rest!

[777]

Re: Divorce & Remarriage

U know, anyone can find a reason for anything..
Makes u wonder..

[777]

Re: Divorce & Remarriage

It is also regarded as acceptable if there has been sexual immorality on the part of the former partner or if the former partner has remarried.

the first reasoning I understand, as it is scriptural, but
I need evidence to support the latter part..
Please dont use the scripture in I Corn . 7 ..that I quoted earlier as support..

[Diplomat]

Re: Divorce & Remarriage

Originally posted by Compry:

I attended a marriage seminar at my church a few weeks ago and the speaker was very adamant about her views on "no divorce". I interrupted and explain some people's realities of what they are living with or what they ran away from. She was stopped in her tracks and could no longer sing the same tune.

I'm assuming she simply did not want to get into an argument/discussion about it. While it is true that some marriages seem beyond repair, it does not change the fact that the Bible does not allow room for divorce outside of what is stated within its pages. Jesus reaffirmed the permanence of marriage, and did point out that divorce was allowed under the law - and the same today - simply because of the hardness of the heart but from the beginning, it was not a part of God's plan.

Don't get me wrong, I am not an advocate of divorce as it is one of the most horrible thing that a person has to go through. I will encourage therapy both in the church and secular. However, if the marriage is beyond repairs for whatever reason and they legally divorced, I just don't understand why some churches are saying no to remarriage.

The reason is simple: the Bible makes no room for it outside of sexual immorality. Churches that 'allow' it do so because they recognize that while God hates divorce, it is not an unforgivable sin. That sin can be confessed and forgiven, but it does not change the fact that the granting of a divorce petition, cannot change what God joined together in the first place. This is the position that some Churches do recognize, that even with a divorce, the original union can only be undone by the death of either partner. Jesus and Paul made the very same point.

The divorcee who desires to remarry really leans heavily on the grace of God and His ability to forgive sins. I somehow think that even if He winks at the first - which I am not saying He does - no doubt the message on the second is to make sure it does not happen again. That some Christians are directly responsible for the mess they find themselves in cannot go unacknowledged.

Edited for typo.

[Guest]

Re: Divorce & Remarriage

Originally posted by CEW:
[qb] I'm assuming she simply did not want to get into an argument/discussion about it. [/qb]

Wrong, but that's neither here nor there...however the saying goes.

Originally posted by CEW:
[qb]The divorcee who desires to remarry really leans heavily on the grace of God and His ability to forgive sins.[/qb]

And so does the person who steals or kills or commits adultery or fornicates or cheats or lies or deceives or covets his neighbor or lusts or lies on his tax returns etc. etc. etc.

Ephesians 2:8-9  For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.