Divorce & Remarriage

[msgoody2shoes]

Re: Divorce & Remarriage

Originally posted by CEW:
[qb]

Originally posted by Green_Biscuit:

Originally posted by CEW:
According to Biblical teaching, unless there was fornication in the first marriage, then the person remarrying has commited adultery. The question therefore becomes, is that an unforgivable sin? If God forgives the adultery, is the divorced party still bound by the first marriage? IMHO, only God can break the marital bond and quite frankly, there is nowhere in scriptures that says forgiving the act of divorce and the subsequent adultery caused by the remarriage does or does not involve the breaking of the first marital bond. I do think that is where the believer relies heavily on God's grace. The same commandments that includes "Thou shalt not commit adultery" also includes "Thou shalt not kill", and I do not think we think twice about whether or not God forgives the murderer.

Another twist to this is that God's forgiveness involves the full removal of the sin being forgiven. It is as if it did not happen. What can we deduce from that?

You asked a very interesting question indeed. I do not think that the person who does not believe in the "validity" of the second marriage would consider remarriage. The person to do so would definitely have to believe that God's forgiveness broke the initial bond, though there is nowhere in scripture that directly justifies that position.

So, CEW, may I ask you this question straight out...do you or do you not think that it is okay for a divorced Christian to remarry (let us assume that the circumstances of the divorce were bad, perhaps even horrific, but not adultery)? Would you?

The more I think about it, the more questions there are that I am not quite fully reconciled on. However, if a divorced Christian believes that the forgiveness of the sin of divorce also involves the breaking of the bond of the former marriage, bearing in mind that only God can do that, I'm not going to take issue with them. Excluded however are Pastors, as I firmly believe that no remarried person - unless the first spouse dies - should serve in that role. [/qb]

So CEW, if a person finds out that they are in an adulterous marriage, (not someone committing adultery), are they supposed to remain in that marriage and expect God's grace to spare them? Or, are they to remove themselves from the adulterous marriage in order to be forgiven? And what makes Pastors different than others?

[Guest]

Re: Divorce & Remarriage

Originally posted by accepted2:
[qb]

Originally posted by Jedi l:
[qb]

Originally posted by Compry:
[qb]

Paul also uses this word for married and unmarried people, "Brothers, each man, as responsible to God, should remain in the situation God called him to" (1 Cor 7:24). Then he gives an example of what he meant, and in it he directly states that remarriage is not a sin. The passage is in 1 Corinthians 7:27-28:

Art thou bound unto a wife? seek not to be loosed. Art thou loosed from a wife? seek not a wife. But and if thou marry, thou hast not sinned; and if a virgin marry, she hath not sinned... (KJV, emphasis added)

[/i]

Copied from here [/qb]

[b]

>>>>>Jedi>>>>>>&g t;>>>>>>>>>>>&gt ;

I love your desire for the word, but oh so often you try to win at all costs.
There is no ill feelings from me towards you, in fact truth be told its more of a healthy admiration and respect. So I issue this caution in Love, take it that way.


>>>>>>Accepted...>>>&gt ;>>>>>>>>>>>>& gt;>>>>>>>>>

Okay not to bust your bubble but I have a problem with the author's usage of the KJV to express this point. So I looked at the NIV which is an internationally accepted complete translation of the original writings and here is what it says.

"1 Corinthians 7
27Are you married? Do not seek a divorce. Are you unmarried? Do not look for a wife. 28But if you do marry, you have not sinned; and if a virgin marries, she has not sinned. But those who marry will face many troubles in this life, and I want to spare you this.
29What I mean, brothers, is that the time is short. From now on those who have wives should live as if they had none;"

Who has not sinned by getting married? Both the virgin and the person who was loosed from a wife have not sinned. The virgin is the one who has never married; the one loosed from the wife is one who was married but got a divorcedThe word "loosed" is the word for "divorced". Paul clearly says that none of them have sinned by getting married. This makes it abundantly clear that Paul never saw remarriage as a sin.

The use of the word loosed in the KJV judging from the translation in the NIV means free or free of marital obligation not necessarily untied from, or divorced from a previous marriage. Furthermore Paul was addressing the men in his audience, are we to assume that all of them were formerly married or divorced men? Think. Again a case of an author seeking to bolster his argument using a slight twist of tranlation, which might appeal to someone who wants to believe that what he is saying is true. [/qb]

1Corinthians 7:27 Art thou bound unto a wife? seek not to be loosed. Art thou loosed from a wife? seek not a wife.
1Co 7:28 But and if thou marry, thou hast not sinned; and if a virgin marry, she hath not sinned. Nevertheless such shall have trouble in the flesh: but I spare you.

This conversation is to the married, the never married and the divorced married.
Note to the divorced married and the never married the virgin they marry is female. Paul was saying she had not committed sin by marrying either.
The disciple was expecting the return of christ seeing the destruction of the temple at Jerusalem and the persecution of christians for their faith, the early church was rapture ready.

Marriage was being put aside in preference to chasity as the impending persecutions were tearing apart families.

3080 lusis {loo'-sis}
from 3089;; n f
AV - to be loosed 1; 1
1) a loosing, setting free 1a) of a prisoner 1b) of the bond of marriage, divorce 2) release, ransoming, deliverance 2a) of liquidating a debt 3) means or power of releasing or loosing

3089 luo {loo'-o}
a root word; TDNT - 2:60 & 4:328,543; v
AV - loose 27, break 5, unloose 3, destroy 2, dissolve 2, put off 1, melt 1, break up 1, break down 1; 43
1) to loose any person (or thing) tied or fastened 1a) bandages of the feet, the shoes, 1b) of a husband and wife joined together by the bond of matrimony 1c) of a single man, whether he has already had a wife or has not yet married 2) to loose one bound, i.e. to unbind, release from bonds, set free 2a) of one bound up (swathed in bandages) 2b) bound with chains (a prisoner), discharge from prison, let go 3) to loosen, undo, dissolve, anything bound, tied, or compacted together 3a) an assembly, i.e. to dismiss, break up 3b) laws, as having a binding force, are likened to bonds 3c) to annul, subvert 3d) to do away with, to deprive of authority, whether by precept or act 3e) to declare unlawful 3f) to loose what is compacted or built together, to break up, demolish, destroy 3g) to dissolve something coherent into parts, to destroy 3h) metaph., to overthrow, to do away

The New Testament was written in Greek, we can so easily detect spin by going back to the original greek.

THE TWO WORDS ARE CORRECTLY USED

How can some one be loosed from a wife who never had a wife? [/qb]

Great so explain it the same way using the NIV version instead. And don't even bodda tell me that the KJV is the authority.

[Guest]

Re: Divorce & Remarriage

[QUOTE]Originally posted by accepted2:
[qb]

Originally posted by Jedi l:
[qb]

Originally posted by Compry:
[qb]

Paul also uses this word for married and unmarried people, "Brothers, each man, as responsible to God, should remain in the situation God called him to" (1 Cor 7:24). Then he gives an example of what he meant, and in it he directly states that remarriage is not a sin. The passage is in 1 Corinthians 7:27-28:

Art thou bound unto a wife? seek not to be loosed. Art thou loosed from a wife? seek not a wife. But and if thou marry, thou hast not sinned; and if a virgin marry, she hath not sinned... (KJV, emphasis added)

[/i]

Copied from here [/qb]

[b]

>>>>>Jedi>>>>>>&g t;>>>>>>>>>>>&gt ;

I love your desire for the word, but oh so often you try to win at all costs.
There is no ill feelings from me towards you, in fact truth be told its more of a healthy admiration and respect. So I issue this caution in Love, take it that way.


[/qb]

Accepted there is no WINNING this argument from either sides. I will take it all by grace and leave it right there. Clearly there is no scripture condoning divorce and remarriage. It is a matter of God's grace and forgiveness and the the individual's relationship with God that is how I see it. Argument done as far as I am concerned.

[Guest]

Re: Divorce & Remarriage

Originally posted by Jedi l:
[qb]Okay not to bust your bubble but I have a problem with the author's usage of the KJV to express this point. So I looked at the NIV which is an internationally accepted complete translation of the original writings and here is what it says.[/qb]

Did you bust my bubble or not? Can't figure that one out. In any case, relax...no need to bust or prick bubbles around here. [img]/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

As per Strong's Hebrew & Greek dictionaries the word loosed in this passage refers to divorced. Verse 28 is a continuation of 27 by the use of the word But.

1Co 7:27 Art thou bound unto a wife? seek not to be loosed. Art thou loosed from a wife? seek not a wife.
1Co 7:28 But and if thou marry, thou hast not sinned;

[fOrTyLeGz]

Re: Divorce & Remarriage

Originally posted by Compry:

1Co 7:27 Art thou bound unto a wife? seek not to be loosed. Art thou loosed from a wife? seek not a wife.
1Co 7:28 But and if thou marry, thou hast not sinned;

It always seems to me, when I read this chapter, that when Paul is talking about marriage, and linking up with a woman, that he, Paul, is looking at these issues from the point of view, that Jesus is going to return very soon. Paul believes within his lifetime. He believes that everything is going to change, and the marriage and sex stuff will be moot after Jesus returns.

_

[acceptedtoday]

Re: Divorce & Remarriage

Originally posted by fOrTyLeGz:
[qb]

Originally posted by Compry:

1Co 7:27 Art thou bound unto a wife? seek not to be loosed. Art thou loosed from a wife? seek not a wife.
1Co 7:28 But and if thou marry, thou hast not sinned;

It always seems to me, when I read this chapter, that when Paul is talking about marriage, and linking up with a woman, that he, Paul, is looking at these issues from the point of view, that Jesus is going to return very soon. Paul believes within his lifetime. He believes that everything is going to change, and the marriage and sex stuff will be moot after Jesus returns.

_ [/qb]

Great Job 4oleggs, who say you don't read your bible [img]/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[Diplomat]

Re: Divorce & Remarriage

Originally posted by msgoody2shoes:

Originally posted by CEW:
The more I think about it, the more questions there are that I am not quite fully reconciled on. However, if a divorced Christian believes that the forgiveness of the sin of divorce also involves the breaking of the bond of the former marriage, bearing in mind that only God can do that, I'm not going to take issue with them. Excluded however are Pastors, as I firmly believe that no remarried person - unless the first spouse dies - should serve in that role.

So CEW, if a person finds out that they are in an adulterous marriage, (not someone committing adultery), are they supposed to remain in that marriage and expect God's grace to spare them? Or, are they to remove themselves from the adulterous marriage in order to be forgiven?

There is nowhere in scriptures where the idea of perpetual adultery is supported. When Jesus spoke to the woman at the well, He told her to go call her husband, a woman who it is highly unlikely that she was widowed five times previously. If we assume that at least a couple of her marriages followed a divorce, it is obvious that Jesus recognized each man she married as her husband. When she replied she had none, He reminded her that she had five prior to her present domestic arrangement. if Jesus referred to them as 'husbands', what does that tell us?

Here is what we clearly know. Jesus stated that if a person obtains a divorce on grounds other than sexual immorality, and remarries, such a person commits adultery. However, the word used in the Greek is an interesting one. It is moicheia and not porneia, and this is signficant. Why? Because moicheia focuses on the broken marriage covenant! In other words, in the 'original' text - translated from Hebrew to Greek - and to His hearers, what Jesus said was that when two people whose divorce were not valid in God's eyes come together in the sexual union of marriage, they break their former marriage covenant. This is not a perpetual state, but once forgiven, God sees them as husband and wife. Again, we go back to the woman at the well and see Jesus calling her exes "husbands".

And what makes Pastors different than others?

It is my personal feeling - and everyone has the right to disagree - that Pastors are to be an example to the flock. Considering that divorce is the result of the hardness of one's heart, and given God's intention for marriage to be a permanent union between a man and a woman, I do not believe a remarried Pastor is a good example of God's design for that institution.

[msgoody2shoes]

Re: Divorce & Remarriage

Originally posted by CEW:
[qb]

Originally posted by msgoody2shoes:

Originally posted by CEW:
The more I think about it, the more questions there are that I am not quite fully reconciled on. However, if a divorced Christian believes that the forgiveness of the sin of divorce also involves the breaking of the bond of the former marriage, bearing in mind that only God can do that, I'm not going to take issue with them. Excluded however are Pastors, as I firmly believe that no remarried person - unless the first spouse dies - should serve in that role.

So CEW, if a person finds out that they are in an adulterous marriage, (not someone committing adultery), are they supposed to remain in that marriage and expect God's grace to spare them? Or, are they to remove themselves from the adulterous marriage in order to be forgiven?

There is nowhere in scriptures where the idea of perpetual adultery is supported. When Jesus spoke to the woman at the well, He told her to go call her husband, a woman who it is highly unlikely that she was widowed five times previously. If we assume that at least a couple of her marriages followed a divorce, it is obvious that Jesus recognized each man she married as her husband. When she replied she had none, He reminded her that she had five prior to her present domestic arrangement. if Jesus referred to them as 'husbands', what does that tell us?

Here is what we clearly know. Jesus stated that if a person obtains a divorce on grounds other than sexual immorality, and remarries, such a person commits adultery. However, the word used in the Greek is an interesting one. It is moicheia and not porneia, and this is signficant. Why? Because moicheia focuses on the broken marriage covenant! In other words, in the 'original' text - translated from Hebrew to Greek - and to His hearers, what Jesus said was that when two people whose divorce were not valid in God's eyes come together in the sexual union of marriage, they break their former marriage coventant. This is not a perpetual state, but once forgiven, God sees them as husband and wife. Again, we go back to the woman at the well and see Jesus calling her exes "husbands".

[MG2S] Seen.

And what makes Pastors different than others?

It is my personal feeling - and everyone has the right to disagree - that Pastors are to be an example to the flock. Seeing that divorce is the result of the hardness of one's heart, I do not believe a remarried Pastor is good example of God's design for marriage.

[MG2S] I agree with you on this one. Unless, the Pastor was in a 2nd marriage (some call double marriage) and came out, then married someone who had never been married before. As in the case of my mother's husband who married a divorcee', got out of it, and married my widowed mother some 10 or so years later.

[/qb]

[fOrTyLeGz]

Re: Divorce & Remarriage

Originally posted by accepted2:

Great Job 4oleggs, who say you don't read your bible [img]/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

Thanks... I'm delighted to know that some of you read my posts [img]/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] .

So, if it is true, that Paul wrote these thoughts about marriage from that point of view, but he was mistaken, shouldn't that change perhaps the importance that Christians put on these verses?

The theology has moved far from there, and very few Christians live as though the second coming was emminent, it seems to me.

Marriage in those Biblical days was a civil affair. Priests were marrying until the twelfth Century. The issue was property rights. The woman (and her virtue) were the property and responsibility of a man, usually. When we look back on the early Christians, Christians may look back with a thousand years of marriages being made in Heaven, but I'm not really sure that Paul ever thought about marriage that way. For Paul, it was all about keeping your eye on the prize, but if you had to have sex then get married, and don't pollute yourself, and lose your good name and stature in the eyes of the brothers. ftp://ftp.epas.utoronto.ca/pub/cch/p...93/Grubbs.html

_

[Mutty]

Re: Divorce & Remarriage

So what conclusion has the Holy Spirit "revealed" revealed on this matter? [img]/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

[msgoody2shoes]

Re: Divorce & Remarriage

Originally posted by Mutty - The return:
[qb] So what conclusion has the Holy Spirit "revealed" revealed on this matter? [img]/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] [/qb]

Romans 14:5

LET EVERY MAN BE FULLY PERSUADED IN HIS OWN MIND.

[Guest]

Re: Divorce & Remarriage

Originally posted by msgoody2shoes:
[qb]Romans 14:5

LET EVERY MAN BE FULLY PERSUADED IN HIS OWN MIND. [/qb]

Hmmmm.

I'm sitting here thinking about this thread and I can't help but wonder again what are divorced Christian women to do.

If some divorced Christian men and single Christian men will not consider marrying a divorced Christian woman pray tell who do the divorced Christian women marry?

I honestly do not believe that it is God's desire to see a divorced Christian woman remain unmarried.
[img]/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

[Guest]

Re: Divorce & Remarriage

Originally posted by Compry:
[qb]

Originally posted by msgoody2shoes:
[qb]Romans 14:5

LET EVERY MAN BE FULLY PERSUADED IN HIS OWN MIND. [/qb]

Hmmmm.

I'm sitting here thinking about this thread and I can't help but wonder again what are divorced Christian women to do.

If some divorced Christian men and single Christian men will not consider marrying a divorced Christian woman pray tell who do the divorced Christian women marry?

I honestly do not believe that it is God's desire to see a divorced Christian woman remain unmarried.
[img]/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] [/qb]

I'll have to find the passage, but I've read that a divorced Christian woman may marry a man of Irish descent

[Mutty]

Re: Divorce & Remarriage

Originally posted by msgoody2shoes:
[qb]

Originally posted by Mutty - The return:
[qb] So what conclusion has the Holy Spirit "revealed" revealed on this matter? [img]/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] [/qb]

Romans 14:5

LET EVERY MAN BE FULLY PERSUADED IN HIS OWN MIND. [/qb]

Yes, I can see every man/woman being persuaded differently on a very important and delicate subject from I suspect, one Holy Ghost. Are those who turn out to have guessed wrong onboard for hell?

[msgoody2shoes]

Re: Divorce & Remarriage

Originally posted by Compry:
[qb]

Originally posted by msgoody2shoes:
[qb]Romans 14:5

LET EVERY MAN BE FULLY PERSUADED IN HIS OWN MIND. [/qb]

Hmmmm.

I'm sitting here thinking about this thread and I can't help but wonder again what are divorced Christian women to do.

If some divorced Christian men and single Christian men will not consider marrying a divorced Christian woman pray tell who do the divorced Christian women marry?

I honestly do not believe that it is God's desire to see a divorced Christian woman remain unmarried.
[img]/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] [/qb]

Tha same goes for divorced Christian men Compry, Love. But for those of us who strongly believe that divorce and remarriage is against the will of God, it is not an option. It is not that God is being cruel to withhold some back from marriage. The Word has been available for men for many years, and if one does not know what is in it before they venture into certain situations, then is it God's fault when they do gain the knowledge and find that mistakes that they made, have hindered them from what they desire? It sounds cruel to the natural mind, but God has laws and commandments that have to be kept.

It is fully up to each individual who finds themselves divorced and desiring to remarry, to be persuaded in their own mind. But the Word of God will not change regardless of their choice or their circumstances.