Jamaican allegedly among terrorist BOMBERS in London

[britisha]

Re: Jamaican allegedly among terrorist BOMBERS in London

Tropicana, again PLEASE minimise your URL, the thread is falling off the page.I need to see what others are saying, thank you. **sigh**

[Wahalla]

Re: Jamaican allegedly among terrorist BOMBERS in London

Originally posted by ReignMan:
[qb]

What I find surprising is that one of the alleged bombers had a wife and child. The importance that Islam places on family makes this almost inconciable....

Why the surprise? Do you believe that everyone who worship Allah and are Muslims has the same intention? There are as many fraudsters, liars and people with misguided religious zeal as in any other religion, so I do not doubt that they are just as corrupt and wicked. [/qb]

No... I find it surprising the usual suicide bombers are usually single and not paretns... Just as when the first female suicide bomber in Isreal was unleashed I was surprised.. (Note however the first modern suicide bombers was Tamil Tigers and female...)

I dotn beleive that simply dismissing suicide bombers as corrupt and wicked will address the underlying reasons....

Hezbollah uses suicide bombers with prescions much like the way the US army uses its high teck weaponry, directing the unleashing much like a target is slected. but depending on the poltical requirements....

[j-kid]

Re: Jamaican allegedly among terrorist BOMBERS in London

Originally posted by nYC/N:
[qb]

Fursss dem tunn snypah and now diss??? [/qb]

Yuh figet Collin Furgeson, di Long Island Train, shooter.

[fOrTyLeGz]

Re: Jamaican allegedly among terrorist BOMBERS in London

Originally posted by NapiHead327:

What about religious nuts who are willing to let other people's children get blown up (a.k.a. GW). See, it all depends on how you see it. You can argue that we need to get rid of terrorists in other countries. I can argue that for hundreds of years terrorists flourished freely in this country - many of them were members of this gov. - and no one did anything about it.

You can call people, or even countries terrorist, but it doesn't make it so. What makes it so in democracies is voting on it. We settle our disputes by voting on it. If the believe that Bush@co are out of line, then vote them out.

Originally posted by NapiHead327:

Bull Conner was a terrorist. David Duke was a terrost. And Timothy McVeigh was a terrorist. And what about those who allowed terroism to continue and did nothing. Our forefathers, for example, George Washington, Thomas Jefferson. These men were slave owners. They watched terrorism and genocide happen - and participated in it for their own personal financial gain - but we celebrate them every President's Day. Their picture is on our currency.

Again, if you believe that these folks were terrible, organize and get the government that you want voted into power. I wouldn't be surprised to see Ronald Reagun on our money in the next few years.

Originally posted by NapiHead327:

The perception is always different when you're on the outside looking in.

These bombers in London weren't poor laddys on the outside looking in. They weren't political activists either. They were young men with low self esteems, who got ensnared into a cult, where they were manipulated into blowing themselves up.

[cris]

Re: Jamaican allegedly among terrorist BOMBERS in London

Originally posted by Tropicana:
[qb] Hey let's not get side tracked here. I pointed to the poll as just one more piece of evidence that the UK and the US have MAJOR problems in terms of their foreign policy and how people perceive and feel about it.

Dismiss the poll if you like but airplanes crashing into buildings and bombs on subways and buses speak VOLUMES and we would be wise to pay attention before this sort of thing becomes a daily occurence as in the middle east. [/qb]

Tropicana you say that the terrorist attacks speak VOLUMES
what are we supposed to be paying attention to???

Please enlighten me. I have asked a couple times on this thread what the heck are the root causes that motivate this group of terrorists and I'm not seeing any answers.
Or somebody start a new thread.


Tropicana are you suggesting that I need to change my way of life or risk punishment by terrorists? I am really confused by your point of view.

[NapiHead327]

Re: Jamaican allegedly among terrorist BOMBERS in London

Originally posted by fOrTyLeGz:
[qb]

Originally posted by NapiHead327:

What about religious nuts who are willing to let other people's children get blown up (a.k.a. GW). See, it all depends on how you see it. You can argue that we need to get rid of terrorists in other countries. I can argue that for hundreds of years terrorists flourished freely in this country - many of them were members of this gov. - and no one did anything about it.

You can call people, or even countries terrorist, but it doesn't make it so. What makes it so in democracies is voting on it. We settle our disputes by voting on it. If the believe that Bush@co are out of line, then vote them out.

Originally posted by NapiHead327:

Bull Conner was a terrorist. David Duke was a terrost. And Timothy McVeigh was a terrorist. And what about those who allowed terroism to continue and did nothing. Our forefathers, for example, George Washington, Thomas Jefferson. These men were slave owners. They watched terrorism and genocide happen - and participated in it for their own personal financial gain - but we celebrate them every President's Day. Their picture is on our currency.

Again, if you believe that these folks were terrible, organize and get the government that you want voted into power. I wouldn't be surprised to see Ronald Reagun on our money in the next few years.

Originally posted by NapiHead327:

The perception is always different when you're on the outside looking in.

These bombers in London weren't poor laddys on the outside looking in. They weren't political activists either. They were young men with low self esteems, who got ensnared into a cult, where they were manipulated into blowing themselves up. [/qb]

During this period in our history, the very people who were being terrorized were not being allowed to vote freely. This is exactly what they were fighting for. This was a 'democracy' that encouraged and supported slavery to build the nation. This was a 'democracy' that for a long time allowed its citizens to be terrorized.

[fOrTyLeGz]

Re: Jamaican allegedly among terrorist BOMBERS in London

The growth of the US, and the spread of rights and democracy has been a long painful, and very sloppy process.

However, over these centuries the American system has defeated every ism. We are growing, and normal people, who want an opportunity to make something of their lives and the lives of their children, want to go to the US. No one is saying it's perfect, just way better than any other system.

[barosa]

Re: Jamaican allegedly among terrorist BOMBERS in London

Originally posted by weet'ntares:

Blacks are always bringing up this slavery issue as if it's just the white man to blame. What a guilt complex. Go check your history books(if you can find one that is not shallow) and you will see that it was the arabs(muslims) who were capturing the africans in africa and selling them to the white man in their big ships for a profit darling!! So, I find it so funny when I see or hear of blacks with arab or muslim names like Kareen, Muhammed. What ignorants!Who do you think are murdering Blacks in the Sudan right now? Black Muslims!!!Why? because they are Christians.

Weet'ntares, I am not saying that the Arabs are without blame for their part in the slave trade. When we look at why it flourished as it did, it boiled right down to what we in "the west" refer to as "Supply and Demand" which is the bedrock of "Capitalism". It was because of the European or if you prefer "the white man's" insatiable appetite for slaves, that the neighboring Arabs got into the business... THEY just couldn't get enough slaves... Btw, is said, and documented that some African tribes turned over their fellow black prisoners to the "white man" who encouraged the tribal wars... Slavery was the first real ECONOMY of the US. You probably woundn't find reference to it in those terms in economics 101, which btw, I know nothing about.

So, you see weet'ntares, if the true or full history be known, there would be no clean hands anywhere to be found... What we have today, is the modern day "moralists" decendants of those who were wicked to others in their day, condemning and preaching down to "the rest" about their wickedness and backwardness... The truth be told : WE ARE ALL WICKED!!! it's just that some are more so than others, and I dont mean that in a personal way.

-----------------
We shall see but a little way if we require to understand what we see : Henry David Thoreau

[fOrTyLeGz]

Re: Jamaican allegedly among terrorist BOMBERS in London

Originally posted by barosa:

Weet'ntares, I am not saying that the Arabs are without blame for their part in the slave trade. When we look at why it flourished as it did, it boiled right down to what we in "the west" refer to as "Supply and Demand" which is the bedrock of "Capitalism". It was because of the European or if you prefer "the white man's" insatiable appetite for slaves, that the neighboring Arabs got into the business... THEY just couldn't get enough slaves... Btw, is said, and documented that some African tribes turned over their fellow black prisoners to the "white man" who encouraged the tribal wars... Slavery was the first real ECONOMY of the US. You probably woundn't find reference to it in those terms in economics 101, which btw, I know nothing about.

I agree... however, through debate, and then war, and then lots more debate, deaths and suffering, the US has shed itself of slavery.

Originally posted by barosa:

So, you see weet'ntares, if the true or full history be known, there would be no clean hands anywhere to be found... What we have today, is the modern day "moralists" decendants of those who were wicked to others in their day, condemning and preaching down to "the rest" about their wickedness and backwardness... The truth be told : WE ARE ALL WICKED!!! it's just that some are more so than others, and I dont mean that in a personal way.

Are decendants responsible for what happened in the past? I personally believe that the vote, the freedom to vote, has produced the best possible outcome for the past cruelties, injustices and greed, and that nothing can truly be gained for ANYONE by pointing back to centuries past.

Organize, publish, vote! Do your best.

-----------------
We shall see but a little way if we require to understand what we see : Henry David Thoreau [/QB][/QUOTE]

[Tropicana]

Re: Jamaican allegedly among terrorist BOMBERS in London

Originally posted by ReignMan:
[qb]

Originally posted by Tropicana:
[qb] Oh so the US does NOT have a problem in terms of how it is perceived by the rest of the world. How do you explain 9/11.

I guess the UK doesn't have a problem either and the London bombing were just random acts of terror?

The Prime Minister of Singapore is a bright and HIGHLY educated man. I don't believe he would quote from a source that is not credible.
[/qb]

All countries' leaders have their own agenda. The only difference is that some have been more successful than others. The singapore prime minister is in no position to speak on the subject, if you should ask the people who live under his dictatorship or his neighbours in southeast asia, like Indonesia and Malaysia....the people he treats like 3rd class rejects. [/qb]

Oh really? Have you ever BEEN to Singapore. I have been there many times. It is clean, well organized, prosperous, lush and green, Its citizens enjoy a HIGH standard of living so with all due respects.....you are talking CRAP!!

[Tropicana]

Re: Jamaican allegedly among terrorist BOMBERS in London

Sorry Britisha...Walhalla and ReignMan, please delete the URL where you quoted me.

Thanks.

[Tropicana]

Re: Jamaican allegedly among terrorist BOMBERS in London

Originally posted by ReignMan:
[qb]

Originally posted by Tropicana:
[qb] Hey let's not get side tracked here. I pointed to the poll as just one more piece of evidence that the UK and the US have MAJOR problems in terms of their foreign policy and how people perceive and feel about it.

Dismiss the poll if you like but airplanes crashing into buildings and bombs on subways and buses speak VOLUMES and we would be wise to pay attention before this sort of thing becomes a daily occurence as in the middle east. [/qb]

And 20 years from today, when "this sort of thing becomes a daily occurence as in the middle east" and you children ask, "Mum, what have you done in your time to prevent this madness?" What tropicana, will you say? You chatted about it incessantly on a website named Jamaicans.com and several others? In other words, what are you prepared to do/are doing to change this wicked world, other than citing links to websites? [/qb]

It is not wihing MY power to do anything about it. I am not White. I am not in a position of economic or political power. I am the one FACING discrimination and not the one discriminating,

Based on your comment:

What tropicana, will you say? You chatted about it incessantly on a website named Jamaicans.com and several others?

I realize that you are just another regular boardite incognito. How cowradly...use your regular name. I don't post on other boards other than 2 samples I did 2 years ago to make a point to the people here...so you are chatting foolishness whoever you are.

[Tropicana]

Re: Jamaican allegedly among terrorist BOMBERS in London

Originally posted by cris:
[qb]

Originally posted by Tropicana:
[qb] Hey let's not get side tracked here. I pointed to the poll as just one more piece of evidence that the UK and the US have MAJOR problems in terms of their foreign policy and how people perceive and feel about it.

Dismiss the poll if you like but airplanes crashing into buildings and bombs on subways and buses speak VOLUMES and we would be wise to pay attention before this sort of thing becomes a daily occurence as in the middle east. [/qb]

Tropicana you say that the terrorist attacks speak VOLUMES
what are we supposed to be paying attention to???

Please enlighten me. I have asked a couple times on this thread what the heck are the root causes that motivate this group of terrorists and I'm not seeing any answers.
Or somebody start a new thread.


Tropicana are you suggesting that I need to change my way of life or risk punishment by terrorists? I am really confused by your point of view. [/qb]

I am talking about 2 levels on which changes are needed...macro and systemic:

- US and UK foreign policy that touches on the middle East question, the inequatible distribution of wealth throughout the world and the North American and UK companies that make MEGA profits at the expense of the citizens of the countries in which they have their foreign offices
- interpersonal - if someone is raised in the US, Canada or the UK or if they attend university in those countries and find that they are ignored, shunned and treated poorly by their White neighbours, co-workers, classmates, etc. why would they return to their countries with a love of the US, the UK or Canada....think about it.

I can't believe with all the discussion and coverage in the news you still don't have a clue why a lot of people are royally ticked!!

Here is a good place to start, an article from CNN:

CNN article

other articles

Root Causes

your library will have other material.

[barosa]

Re: Jamaican allegedly among terrorist BOMBERS in London

Originally posted by Fortylegz :

Are decendants responsible for what happened in the past? I personally believe that the vote, the freedom to vote, has produced the best possible outcome for the past cruelties, injustices and greed, and that nothing can truly be gained for ANYONE by pointing back to centuries past.

Organize, publish, vote! Do your best.


I'll remind of the famous quote (paraphrase): One has to know where they have been before they can know where they are going!... The US is content to forget where they are comming from... Need I say more!.. `Does the word REPARATION rings a bell in your ears?... If it does, then you would know, that if they truly wanted to do the "Christian thing", it would have been done eons eons ago. Something for nutt'n still rings true, if it can be gotten away with... It does say something about a society that owes the genesis of its "wealth" to those they enslaved and never once made an effort to atone for it.

But I digress, this topic has been run off the rails before I even got here. so you may take it up in another Topic all it's own and allow this to get back on track with topic : "Jamaican allegedly among terrorist bombers in London"...

--------------------
We shall see but a little way if we require to understand what we see : Henry David Thoreau

[fOrTyLeGz]

Re: Jamaican allegedly among terrorist BOMBERS in London

Originally posted by Tropicana:
Oh really? Have you ever BEEN to Singapore. I have been there many times. It is clean, well organized, prosperous, lush and green, Its citizens enjoy a HIGH standard of living so with all due respects.....you are talking CRAP!!

http://www.sfdonline.org/Op%20Pages/OPoct02.html

by J B Jeyaretnam

One has only to mention Singapore and there immediately comes to the mind of those outside Singapore the picture of a country whose citizens are economically well off – prosperous in short. There’s no question that Singapore’s economic growth in terms of GDP figures has been spectacular, more so when one realizes that the country has no natural resources. Singapore is one of East Asia’s four ‘tigers’ for its achievement of economic progress expressed in GDP figures, outstripping its immediate neighbours and its partners in ASEAN. The growth has somewhat slowed down and the neighbors are catching up, but the phrase "economic miracle" still applies. Developing countries are anxious to learn how Singapore did it – to adopt the lessons in their own countries.

But this picture of a country with its citizens all economically well-off – an "affluent society", a term increasingly used by the media – does not tell the whole story. It is only partially true. The "economic miracle" has not benefited all the people. There is still a considerable number of the population that the "economic miracle" has not touched – people who still after thirty years of economic progress find life a grim struggle to afford the basic needs of life. Singapore is one of the most expensive places to live in. A family of four – the ideal number for some time – (the government is now calling for larger families among those who can afford) need about $1,500* a month to live on – to pay for the basic needs of housing, food, clothing, transport, healthcare and education. Far from a life of luxury but just to live on.

Yet in 1999, 14,700 employees earned below $200 a month. 33,700 earned between $200 - $400 a month. 16% of the work force - 207,700 - earned below $1,000 a month. A report issued by the Department of Statistics in May of this year reported that for the bottom 10% of the society the average household income (income from all working members) for 1999 was $133 a month, a drop of 48.4% from 1990. For the next 10%, the average household income was $1,172, a drop of 12.0% from 1990.

The figures show that nearly 30% of households in Singapore were not earning enough to afford the minimum standard of life.

Singapore has no safety net because its leaders believe that nothing should be given free except perhaps to the utterly destitute – those who have no income at all. Medical care is costly (it is very costly compared to Malaysia) but even the very poorest have to pay for it themselves. There is no old age pension. The suicide rate among those over 60 is high compared to other age groups. Education is not free.

But at the same time as the report from the Department of Statistics shows the rich have grown richer. Whilst for 90% of the households their average income dropped from 1998 to 1999, for the top 10% it increased by 2.6%. Whilst wages are low (for Singapore’s cost of living) the salaries for ministers, Judges and the civil servants are very high. Singapore’s ministers earn far more than their counterparts in other parts of the world. For example, the Prime Minister is paid four times what the President of the United States is paid. The Senior Minister is paid more than the Prime Minister. The Statistics Department report showed that income disparity had increased dramatically in 1999 over 1998. The brunt of the recession was borne by the workers. They were the hardest hit. Unemployment HAS risen and is still rising even after the recession. The growing gap between the rich and the poor cannot but cause concern for the future of the society.

That the outside world still continues to think of Singapore as a country of people living in prosperity is testimony to the effectiveness of a media under the control of the government.
...................................

There is much more in this article... follow the link.

http://www.sfdonline.org/Op%20Pages/OPoct02.html

I think your admiration of Singapore is misplaced Tropi.