An Invasion Of Foreign Gods

[rebelgirl]

Re: An Invasion Of Foreign Gods

Originally posted by coffeegyal:
[qb]

Originally posted by rebel:
[qb]Sorry servant but I only have one thing to say about that post, and don't take it as an attack but, What a crock of beep!

to lump Hinduism Buddhism and Tao in with the occult in it's self is pathetic

Three major world religions whose beliefs and practices are entwined with the NAM are Hinduism, Buddhism, and Taoism, Another prominent occultic influence in Europe was Druidism, the religion of the Celts.

Oy Christians on the attack today. Lovely. Good morning everyone it's so nice to be here

Argh [img]/forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img] [/qb]

Good to see you, Reb. If you'll notice, the initial post also mentioned the resurgence of yoga as part of this "foreign invasion." Yoga. Yeah, god forbid I should want to integrate body and spirit and get some stretching in while I'm at it. Sigh.[/qb]

[img]/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] Yoga [img]/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] I just skimmed at first so I missed that one [img]/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] Be afraid be very afraid [img]/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

It struck me like the religious version of the anti communist propaganda of the Cold War.

Got news though servant Christianity is a foreign invader to North, South, and Central America, not to mention southern Africa, Asia and Northern Europe. But sure lets subscribe to hysteria at the idea that people find a happy place using the teachings of other ancient religions peacefully..

Perhaps it's gaining a place in the world because it is without prejudice to idea's, and philosophies and draws from wisdom all over the world, rather than limiting it's self to one book and saying everyone else is going to hell. Just a thought.

Actually now that I'm over my initial disappointment, this post is really quite funny [img]/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[rebelgirl]

Re: An Invasion Of Foreign Gods

Originally posted by servant:
[qb]"Oy Christians on the attack today"

The nerve of these Christians! Don't they know that they are just supposed to be attacked!

What are Christians coming to anyway.[/qb]

Hey servant have I attacked you? Actually quite oppposite I've been trying to understand where your coming .I have a self proclaimed ignorance when it comes to Christianity, and I've been trying to change that.

Casting the first stones isn't what I thought this faith stuff was all about. I see we are quickly going to revert to a place we were many months ago. Unfortunate I have really been enjoying this board lately. Oh well nothing lasts.

[britisha]

Re: An Invasion Of Foreign Gods

The hypocrisy here is suffocating. It is amazing how "some" are offended even to claim that they are attacked now; still yet the Pope haters never condemned the verbal attacks but even joined the bandwaggon.

Uggh!!

[rebelgirl]

Re: An Invasion Of Foreign Gods

Originally posted by britisha:
[qb]The hypocrisy here is suffocating. It is amazing how "some" are offended even to claim that they are attacked now; still yet the Pope haters never condemned the verbal attacks but even joined the bandwaggon.

Uggh!![/qb]

Nope sorry Britisha if your referring to me. I didn't condone it simply said it wouldn't make a difference what faith the target was if it were a person in power then I consider them fair game. Like I said I make Daili Lama jokes all the time. And there is a difrence between making a joke about a man, and attacking a belief system, and trying to paint those believers out to be evil invaders [img]/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

Nice try though.

Your right the hypocrisy is suffocating.

[servant]

Re: An Invasion Of Foreign Gods

"Hey servant have I attacked you? Actually quite oppposite I've been trying to understand where your coming (from)"

Hi rebel, no you have never attacked me personally. I was just responding to the charge that I am "on the attack". Actually I am quite enjoying the 'righteous' indignation of my supereriors here.

By the way, is "it struck me like the religious version of the anti communist propaganda" your idea of "trying to understand" where I am coming from ?

[britisha]

Re: An Invasion Of Foreign Gods

Nope sorry Britisha if your referring to me. I didn't condone it simply said it wouldn't make a difference what faith the target was if it were a person in power then I consider them fair game. Like I said I make Daili Lama jokes all the time. And there is a difrence between making a joke about a man, and attacking a belief system, and trying to paint those believers out to be evil invaders

Nice try though.

As we say in Jamaica, hif di cap fit yuh wear it.

[rebelgirl]

Re: An Invasion Of Foreign Gods

Originally posted by servant:
[qb]By the way, is "it struck me like the religious version of the anti communist propaganda" your idea of "trying to understand" where I am coming from ?[/qb]

No just an observation. It does bare similarities to it. Especially the emphasis on foreign invasion, and the subtle undermining of your faith. Bears allot of resemblance to the foreign Commies trying to subtly undermine Democratic America.

I didn't take this post to be something that would help me understand Christianity better. And I'm not sure what enlightenment you want me to take from it, in understanding you better.

[rebelgirl]

Re: An Invasion Of Foreign Gods

Originally posted by britisha:
[qb]Nope sorry Britisha if your referring to me. I didn't condone it simply said it wouldn't make a difference what faith the target was if it were a person in power then I consider them fair game. Like I said I make Daili Lama jokes all the time. And there is a difrence between making a joke about a man, and attacking a belief system, and trying to paint those believers out to be evil invaders

Nice try though.

As we say in Jamaica, hif di cap fit yuh wear it.[/qb]

Absolutely.

By the way nice cap [img]/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

(now this is a joke, so don't get your cap in an up roar K [img]/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] )

Geeze, I like this post better when it was funny.

[servant]

Re: An Invasion Of Foreign Gods

"I'm not sure what enlightenment you want me to take from it, in understanding you better"

Well let's take for example your ( and CG's)apparent dismissal of Yoga as a significant part of the NAM (" [img]/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] Yoga [img]/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] I just skimmed at first so I missed that one. [img]/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] Be afraid be very afraid" [img]/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] ).

If you were truly interested in "understanding where I am coming from" as you say, would it not have made more sense to ask how I came to that conclusion rather than jump on the bandwagon and mock what I was saying ?

Anywho, here goes.

Kundalini Yoga is now practiced by many thousands of people, including many professing Christians in mainline churches. In Hindu mythology and occult anatomy, the goddess Kundalini is thought of as a female serpent lying dormant at the base of the spine. She represents the female half of the divine polarity in man. While lying at the base of the spine, she is separated from Shiva, her divine "lover" and masculine counterpart, who resides in the brain. When aroused by yoga practices, she uncoils, travels up the spine toward her lover, opening the alleged psychic centers called chakras in the process. When the crown or top chakra is reached, the union of Shiva/Shakti occurs, supposedly leading the practitioner to divine enlightenment and union with Brahman. Traditionally she is known as Durga the creatrix, Chandi the fierce and bloodthirsty, and Kali the destroyer. She is also Bhajangi the serpent. As Chandi or Kali she has a garland of skulls around her neck and drinks human blood.

Kundalini arousal is not, as commonly thought, restricted to hatha yoga practice. Even yoga authorities have said that all yoga is ultimately kundalini yoga and that yoga is meaningless without it.

Kundalini arousal or its equivalent is found not only in yoga; it is also encountered in scores of the new religions, many occult practices, and in some practices of New Age medicine. Perhaps the dominant characteristic in kundalini arousal and other yoga practice is an experience of energy infusion, or possession. During the ecstasy or trance, consciousness is transformed and the yogi, sufi, or mystic finds himself in direct rapport with a so called “Presence” which is supposed to spread everywhere and occupies the whole mind and thought of the devotee. Furthermore, this energy is experienced by all mediators and yogis as some kind of supernatural or divine energy.

Not surprisingly, you will not read a kundalini or yoga theorist who defines this energy infusion, or possession, as actual demon possession; however, there is often recognition of a possessing god or entity, and sometimes references to the demonic.

A Taoist Master Chao Pi Ch’en observed that "as time passes, demonic states will occur to the practicer " . In any event, yogic energy manifestations and possession are sometimes initially sensed by the experiencer as the work of an evil spirit. But this primary impression is "corrected" in accordance with Hindu theory, classifying the phenomena as a "divine process."

When we examine specific characteristics of kundalini arousal and its energy manifestations, we discover it is far more easily interpreted as a result of demonism than of anything divine. A perusal of the standard literature reveals the following characteristics: Kundalini energy is admittedly an occult energy; it is personal and supernatural; it can function independently of the person; it permeates and infuses the individual; it can force spontaneous yogic and other actions, including worship; it produces a form of consciousness and personality alteration hostile to Christian faith; it is related to evil pagan gods and deities and it is described as "being possessed" by those who experience it.

In summary, kundalini arousal displays 1) an independent supernatural nature, 2) personal volition, 3) destructive potential, 4) an amoral or evil nature, and 5) a desire for "lordship," that is, the exerting of personal control over the practitioner, forcing compliance. These facts do not suggest that we are dealing with an impersonal energy. The facts suggest that we are dealing with personal demonic spirit entities whose goal is spiritual deception and personal ownership.

[rebelgirl]

Re: An Invasion Of Foreign Gods

If you were truly interested in "understanding where I am coming from" as you say, would it not have made more sense to ask how I came to that conclusion rather than jump on the bandwagon and mock what I was saying ?

Yes it would have made more sense to ask you how you came to that conclusion. To tell you the truth I just didn't feel like being serious this morning so I was trying to make light of something I do take serious. anyway I'll read what you posted. Having been into Yoga for exercise and pre meditative relaxation for years. I can tell you that yoga the way most of us westerners practice it is not a threat. But I'll read your write up now cause I haven't yet. Possibly I'll add my 2 cents, although I still don't feel very into being serious yet today.

I guess I should have stayed in generals today cause I don't have enough coffee in me to debate yet [img]/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]
Mocking come naturally to me, thinking is more difficult [img]/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

Edited because of Freudian slip....

[servant]

Re: An Invasion Of Foreign Gods

No prob. Who knows, maybe we can even learn something from each other.

[rebelgirl]

Re: An Invasion Of Foreign Gods

Ok I've read it. One thing to point out there are many diffrent types of Yoga.

KARMA YOGA (Bhikshu)
Karma Yoga achieves union with God through right action and through service (Bhakti Yoga). Karma Yoga can also be summed up in a statement by Sri Bhagavan Krishna in the Bhagavad Gita: "Worshipping Him with proper actions, a man attains realization". One key to Karma Yoga is the performance of right action and service for its own sake, without consideration of the immerdiate or apparent results.

BHAKTI YOGA
The Yoga of love and devotion. The Way of Transcendent Love which sees the whole universe, animate and inanimate, as being pervaded by divinity. Also very much involved with service (refering Karma Yoga), and way of the heart.

HATHA YOGA
It is a yoga concerned with physical and energetical purification and training. Its goal is to bring the physical body into a perfect state of health so the soul has a fitting vehicle of expression to work through. It embraces many practices, including physical postures and breathing excercises (pranayama) which alos act upon the physical nervious system and etheric body which is considered a corollary aspect of the physical body and brings the vital energies of the physical and etheric bodies under conscious control. (This is the Yoga I practice)

ASTANGA YOGA (eightfold yoga-path):

buddhist based philosophy yoga.

JNANA YOGA
Jnana Yoga is the yoga of the philosopher and thinker who wants to go beyond the visible, material reality. The Jana Yogi finds God through knowledge. Jnana Yoga is summed up in the Upanishads by the following statement: "In the method of reintegration through knowledge, the mind is ever bound to the ultimate end of existence which is liberation This method leads to all attainments and is ever auspicious." [...]
-- Excerpt of "Hidden Mysteries" by Joshua David Stone

TANTRA YOGA

TANTRA envisions the Universe as an extremely complex, multi-dimensional web of invisible energies. This Science permits the controlled expansion of consciousness beyond the web of illusory appearances and thus liberates us from ignorance. TANTRA is also called VAMA MARGA, i.e. The Left Hand Path, due to the fact that women, who are of lunar influence, negative polarity or the left, play an essential role in this Science. However, The Way which is recommended here is not at all made of negations or austerities as in most other spiritual systems, but of pleasure and beatitudes. TANTRIC tradition puts forth clearly that the state of harmonious integration and spiritual freedom can be obtained only through direct experience and living of everyday life. The inferior levels of consciousness cannot be efortlessly controlled and surpassed unless fully and frantically, intensely and totally, lived in the whole plenitude of their power.

AGNI YOGA
Agni Yoga is a synthesis of all yogas, especially Karma Yoga, Bhakti Yoga and Raja Yoga. Agni is the Sanskrit word for Fire--the Creative Fire of the Cosmos--the Fire that is found in varying degrees at the foundation of all Yogas.

MANTRA YOGA
Mantra Yoga finds union with God through the proper use of speech and sound. It is the power of the word to create or destroy that Mantra Yoga emphasizes. It utilizes the focus intent to make every word you speak be in harmony with God and with your own soul. [...]

YANTRA YOGA
Yantra Yoga is the path of union with God thorough geometric visualization. A yantra is a geometric design. They are highly effiecient tools for contemplation, concentration, and meditation. [...]

SURAT SHABD OR NADA YOGA
I don't know much about this one


SIDDHA YOGA
I don't know much about this one


RAJA YOGA
I don't know much about this one


SAHAJA YOGA:
This one either

KUNDALINI YOGA
the one you posted on.

KRIYA YOGA, LAYA YOGA , INTEGRAL YOGA, YOGA OF SYNTHESIS, Non-Hindu Yoga Movements.

To lump all forms of Yoga under that one particular type would not be correct. Just as taking all forms of Mono theism and putting them under one definition would be misleading.

[rebelgirl]

Re: An Invasion Of Foreign Gods

Originally posted by servant:
[qb]No prob. Who knows, maybe we can even learn something from each other.[/qb]

That's what I hope for. I will freely admit I have allot to learn about.... well everything. [img]/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[servant]

Re: An Invasion Of Foreign Gods

I didn't mean to lump them all together, I was just trying to explain a concept that to a greater or lesser dgree could be found in all branches.

Have you ever read 'The Yoga of Light: Hatha Yoga Pradipika' ? It's by Hans Ulrich Rieker. (Seabury Press. 1971) - In it he says that "Kundalini [is] the mainstay of all yoga practices" (p. 101).

As a practicioner, how would you respond to that ?

[Fledgist]

Re: An Invasion Of Foreign Gods

Originally posted by servant:
[qb]["Vindictiveness, one of the distinctive characteristics of Christian fundamentalists"]

Secular humanists, of course, being all being filled with....well, peace on earth and goodwill towards men I suppose. At least those that agree with them.

{Fledgist: Good try.}

["What, I wonder, are you afraid of?"]

Assuming that discernment has anything to do with fear is indicative of your typically reductionist and impoverished understanding of things spiritual.[/qb]

Invective for response, how interesting. In other words I hit the nail on the head, and you are now whistling as loudly as you can in the dark.

The reality is that the 'New Age' beliefs -- absurd as they are -- constitute a challenge to conventional religion, including fundamentalist Christianity. What you want to do is stigmatise that challenge.