An Invasion Of Foreign Gods

**rufian** · 07-25-2002, 08:03 PM

Re: An Invasion Of Foreign Gods

Originally posted by servant:
[qb]Massive, mi gawn a mi yaad.

(Sukunu, great minds think alike).[/qb]

how you can gaan? e juss a start [img]/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

**rufian** · 07-25-2002, 08:08 PM

Re: An Invasion Of Foreign Gods

rebel, thanks for the tale. which earth religion depicts the serpent negatively?

**rebelgirl** · 07-25-2002, 08:09 PM

Re: An Invasion Of Foreign Gods

Originally posted by coffeegyal:
[qb]

Originally posted by Jedi:
[qb]

Originally posted by Jedi:
[qb]Thanks servant well written, and informative. Good to always be aware of the enemies subtle attack strategies. [img]/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] [/qb]

Correction: Should have been enemy's subtle attack strategies.
Either way I see this comment got him really upset, what an uproar in here. It is all good folks, because you donot even know why you are all so upset about this comment. *** the enemy at his finest***[/qb]

I thought we were having a good discussion. Did I miss the uproar?[/qb]

I missed it too. I was at first disappointed in the post , then found it really funny, then began to enjoy it quite a bit. Hey I was forced to go learn something more about Yoga, anything that makes me learn is a good thing. Oh well I always miss the wars [img]/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

Serious Jedi who's upset? I can disagree with something posted without getting upset at all about it. CG doesn't seem upset neither does Dyoll, and Fledge has he ever gotten upset? [img]/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

Everything's good [img]/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img] , but of course you know I would disagree with the initial post.
[img]/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

**rebelgirl** · 07-25-2002, 08:33 PM

Re: An Invasion Of Foreign Gods

Originally posted by sukuna:
[qb]rebel, thanks for the tale. which earth religion depicts the serpent negatively?[/qb]

I was told that story when I was little, lucky I found a copy on the web cause I couldn't remember the whole thing. I used to imagine I was the chiefs daughter. It inspired a love of snakes early on. [img]/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] I was made part of the frog clan not snake though. So I guess my favorite story should be the frog prince [img]/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

I can't think of one earth based religion that does, but I don't know them all so I can't say on that one. actually Other than Abrahamic religions it's had to think of one religion that does. I know the Gnostic thought highly of serpents and from what I know Celtic druids were positive. Most eastern religions that I know of have always portrayed the serpent positive. Can you think of any that portrayed the serpent as bad?

Hmmm perhaps I will investigate this further. Cause again I don't know enough to say much definite on the subject.

**rufian** · 07-25-2002, 08:40 PM

Re: An Invasion Of Foreign Gods

rebel, actually I can't think of any earth religion that portray the serpent negatively either. That's why I ask and it is obviously an important question too.

**rebelgirl** · 07-25-2002, 09:43 PM

Re: An Invasion Of Foreign Gods

Well I found some really cool stuff. One site in particular had a very good write up

403 Forbidden

http://www.apollonius.net/boulay07e.html

Among the Mayas of Central America, snake symbolism was very common. Most of the serpents depicted in their art are feathered, indicating the ability to fly. The ancient Mayan book Chilam Balam relates that the first inhabitants of Yucatan were the Chanes or "People of the Serpent," who came across the sea from the East led by Itzamna, a serpent-god. He was the most important deity in the Mayan pantheon; and as the dominant sky-god, ruler of the heavens, he is one of the few Mayan gods not to be associated with death and destruction.

The benevolent serpent-god is also found in the later Mexican mythology in the Aztec civilization which superseded the Mayan one. Quetzalcoatl is the plumed serpent-god who brought the benefits of civilization to Mexico and taught the science of astronomy and mathematics to man.

Africa

Legends of serpent-gods also abound throughout the mythology and religion of Africa. To the Dogon of Mali and Upper Volta, their ancient god created the sun and moon, then the earth from a lump of clay, and finally the first primitive beings who were twins called Nummo, half-human and half-snake.

In the Nyoro tribe, legends say that god sent the first human couple down from heaven when he established the world. The man had a tail and produced two maidens and a boy. These in turn bore the chameleon, the father of mankind.
To the Kumbi, the first men that god created had tails. The Ewe-Ho tribe describes men with tails who had climbed down on a rope to Earth. To the Jagga, their ancestors came down to Earth from heaven on a thread from a cobweb: the ancestor was called "the tailed one."

Egypt

On the walls of the tombs of the earlier dynasties, the snake is depicted as a friendly creature which bears the king on his back into the stellar sky. It is symbolic of the king's being carried by the serpent-god to the land of immortality, to the land of the gods.

But in the New Kingdom after the first kings of the 18th Dynasty had rid the country of the hated Hyksos, the serpent takes on an evil character. It becomes an evil object to be exorcised at rituals. Called Apep or Apop (Greek Apophis), it is the manifestation of the foreign barbaric Hyksos who had invaded and occupied Egypt for hundreds of years.

China

According to Chinese history, Asian dragons were present at the Creation and shared the world with mankind. Like the Western serpent, the dragon was linked with the development of Man; and it was the dragon that taught him the essential arts such as how to make fire, how to weave nets for fishing, and how to make music.

The Chinese dragon was unrivaled in wisdom and its power to confer blessings and as a result came to symbolize that most beneficent of men, the Emperor who was believed to have dragon blood. This affinity with the dragon is shown by the imperial accoutrements: the Emperor sat on a dragon throne, rode in a dragon boat, and even slept in a dragon bed.

India

The Ancient Book of Dzyan, probably the oldest of Sanskrit sources, speaks of a serpent race which descended from the skies and taught mankind. Madame H. P. Blavatsky spent three years in Tibet, Bhutan, and Sikkim, accumulating thousands of Sanskrit sources which were compiled into the Book of Dzyan. These sources concern the ancient people called the Nagas or Sarpa which were semi-divine beings with a human face and the tail of a dragon. Blavatsky believed that these Sarpa are undoubtedly the Seraphim of the Old Testament; the Seraphim would thus have the same etymological roots as the Sarpa of ancient India.

One of the great epics of India, the Ramayana, is the story of Sita, the bride of a northern Prince called Rama, who is abducted by Ravana, the serpent king of Ceylon [the modern Sri Lanka].

Aratta is often mentioned in the Sumerian literature as a far-away land controlled by the goddess Inanna from her tutelary city of Uruk. According to the epic Enmerkar and the Lord of Aratta, it lay beyond Anshan (now Iran) and a journey to Aratta required the crossing of seven mountains and dreaded river Kur.

It has been suggested that Aratta may be the same as Harappa of the lost Indus Valley civilization. Harappa, along with Mohenjo-daro, was a city of the ancient Dravidians, the legendary serpent people who preceded the Aryan occupation of India.
----------------------------------------------

Website Disabled

http://www.goddesslanguage.homestead.com/Serpents.html

In Hindu myth, nagas are a primeval race of divine serpent-people that play an important part in religion. They are half-human and half snake, and are still worshipped as the bringers of fertility, especially in southern India. They are the guardians of rain, and thus fertility, but are also thought to bring disasters such as floods and drought. They are the protectors of springs, wells and rivers.

From a site on Ancient goddesses of the earth:

http://www.psychicinvestigator.com/Relig/Goddss.htm

Long before Judaism and Christianity, long before the Greco-Roman pantheon of gods goddesses, the peoples of Western and Central Europe and the Near East worshipped a Goddess, seen in many guises, who encompassed both the awesome power of nature and the forces of life and death.

The far reaches of her power found their expression in artifacts, sculptures and carvings, and at sites where she was venerated - caves, sanctuaries, and temples - that have slept for thousands of years.

She has been called Gaia, Mother Nature, Queen of Heaven, Mother of God, Mistress of the House of Life, the Creatress, Divine Ancestress, Mighty Lady. Known by many names, venerated by ancient humankind in many forms, the Goddess is actually this Blessed Mother Earth which sustains us all.

From the depths of antiquity the Goddess has been depicted in three forms (maiden, matron, & crone), always associated with birds, beasts, serpents, flowering plants and other symbols of birth and fertility which connote harmony with Mother Earth.

I have to agree with the authors conclusion on the first site I posted. It would seem the vilification of the serpent imagery was a means for Christianity to try and undermine the traditional religions of the people. If you convince people that their god or holy symbol, is truly that of evil then they are more likely to turn to something in order to maintain themselves on the right path.

servants post seems to be the same type of reasoning. convince people that the new age movement is truly inspired by the devil, and they will shun it in order no to be punished.

The vilification of the serpent in earth based religions was just another attempt to destroy them it would seem. why all this competition over belief? I really don't see why any Christian should feel threatened by a serpent, or a group of people that have serpent representations in their spirituality. Why the fight to take over the world, and convert everyone?

Certainly I don't by the serpent being the devil, or the devil being a serpent at any rate.

Hmmmm. Still trying to find a non Abrahamic religion with bad serpents. Other than the Egyptian change of heart. Haven't found any yet.

**jedi** · 07-25-2002, 11:08 PM

Re: An Invasion Of Foreign Gods

(((Rebel))) didn't look that way to me! You are joking right? [img]/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img] Anyway too much long reading gone to eat my barbecue chicken. Latah!!! [img]/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

And the serpent..........*** ah fagget abut it**** Another day!!!

**rebelgirl** · 07-25-2002, 11:56 PM

Re: An Invasion Of Foreign Gods

Originally posted by Jedi:
[qb](((Rebel))) didn't look that way to me! You are joking right? [img]/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img] Anyway too much long reading gone to eat my barbecue chicken. Latah!!! [img]/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

And the serpent..........*** ah fagget abut it**** Another day!!![/qb]

Ah Jedi I rarely take anything to serious. More than half the time I'm joking but I wasn't really joking about this [img]/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img] . At no time was I ever really upset about this post, disappointed at it commencement, not surprised, but not upset. I guess I probably shouldn't speak for others.

I sometime have a flair for the dramatic, and overstating my opposition, and my posts reflect that. I don't take anything on the net too serious anymore. If I did I probably have suffered a heart attack a year ago or so [img]/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] Now if we were arguing in person, well I probably still wouldn't get upset. I have taken my yoga seriously as exercise in the past, but not any spiritual significance to it.

Maybe I'll start a new post about the serpent I think it would be an interesting topic to discuss. The aspects of assigning animals spiritual value , and whether or not an animals can truly be evil. Not to mention the origin of the serpent myths, and how evil came to be associated with it.

Not now though trying to figure out what to make for dinner right now, and you made me hungry, so now I gotta find something to eat.

**quodlibet** · 07-26-2002, 02:46 AM

Re: An Invasion Of Foreign Gods

Clarify for me please, anyone:

What makes those so named "Foreign Gods" as such? What makes these "foreign" versus any other?

(Dare I expect an answer, much less one free of dogma?)

**Mutty** · 07-26-2002, 03:23 AM

Re: An Invasion Of Foreign Gods

Ai sah!

**jedi** · 07-26-2002, 03:55 AM

Re: An Invasion Of Foreign Gods

Originally posted by Mutty:
[qb]Ai sah![/qb]

Ah soh mi seh too, for lawd kno mi cyan badda wid dis atall!!!

**servant** · 07-26-2002, 10:03 AM

Re: An Invasion Of Foreign Gods

Top of the morning all ! Well CG an rebel, I have to say I did learn something from you both sharing your experiences. An CG, I thought your comments on my link balanced (si dat Fledgist !).

What you both had to say yesterday made me think of a philosophical question of sorts for the two of you. Here goes.

I have two bottles of water mixed with arsenic. I label one as such with a 'skull and crossbones' pictogram on it. I add orange juice and sugar to the other, masking both its flavor and appearance. And then I label it "Orange Punch".

Which is more dangerous ?

Peeps, mi have plenty work today so will check in much later if I have the time.

**rufian** · 07-26-2002, 10:12 AM

Re: An Invasion Of Foreign Gods

Originally posted by Mutty:
[qb]Ai sah![/qb]

Mutty begging you to answer your pm again sir!

**Mutty** · 07-26-2002, 10:38 AM

Re: An Invasion Of Foreign Gods

Sukuna, I am NOT receiving your PMs. Like I said already, your obeah is working backward. Send me an e-mail instead.

**oren cousins** · 07-26-2002, 12:11 PM

Re: An Invasion Of Foreign Gods

7500

posted July 25, 2002 10:44 AM
--------------------------------------------------
originally quoted by SUKUNA:
" you reap what you sew, even if you are christian."

Yes Sukuna. Do you really mean 'sew' as in making stitches? This thread is surely getting to me in stitches/ I am cracking up. Lots of good fun! Thanks to servant, Mutty, jedi, you
yourself and the other "burning amateur theologians". Thanks ,britisha, for your testament of faith. I too prefer to stick to the old time religion. It's good enough for me. New broom, sweep clean-they say- but ol' broom know di corner. jedi and fledgist will be happy to hear that.
__________________________________________________
But, Sukuna,. nowadays people don't 'sew' nor 'sow'. They patronize specialists and shops in those lines. Nowadays, people either buy, beg or shoplift. Amen?
__________________________________________________

A little nonsense now and then
Is enjoyed by the wisest of men;
But what to you make sense ,
May to me seem nonsense,
And what make sense to me,
May well nonsense to you may be.

_----------------------------------------------

The greatest difference between us and others is that they think they see a difference where no difference exists. (Confucius)

__________________________________________________

Jancro say, "If you t'ink a lie, kill y'u mawga cow".

An Invasion Of Foreign Gods

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