ar mzungu jamaicans racist?

[Tropicana]

Re: ar mzungu jamaicans racist?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: gourmet</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The connected got their jobs after uni through their families, or through connections made with other rich kids during those years at expensive schools. The well off don't apply for jobs, they are provided with one. </div></div>

And there are examples of that but there are also examples of others who DID run into problems because of their accents. No I am not going to call any names. These were people who back home would have been considered &quot;White&quot; and they had trouble finding jobs and renting apartments when they graduated. Yes this included some children of diplomats and I will go no further in identifying them.

[Morpheous]

Re: ar mzungu jamaicans racist?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tuff Gong</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Michael Menlie and his gang were the one who invented the race, class and shade divisive politics in Jamaica. Since then it has grown and thrived and now is a part of our culture. </div></div>
I thought race, class and shade divisive politics in Jamaica was brought to Jamaica by the Spanish and British who used the combination of the three to manage, control and distribute the wealth and resources among themselves while making sure the division lasted long after they left and gave us our so called 'independence'?

[Dr.Dudd]

Re: ar mzungu jamaicans racist?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: gourmet</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Many white (light skinned) Jamaicans are indeed racist. Funny thing is, when they move to North America or Europe they often become the victims of racism. Talk about having the tables turned on you</div></div>
I'm sure some of them did find the adjustment a shock, but not all of them - some did just fine in foreign.
I went to university with some of them in Canada, whites and brownings who were diplomat's kids, etc, and they weren't suffering from discrimination, or from anything for that matter.
As a group, they were rich, and often beautiful, stylish and materialistic, and notably spoiled, selfish, and snobby. They tended to look down on Canadians who weren't as wealthy, well-travelled, and elite as they were. This kind of supports the class prejudice vs the race prejudice theory. </div></div>That's an opinion. sometimes we mistakenly assume that people don't experience racusm,because we think they don't.The majorioty do. many people claim that i din't experience racusm, sumply because I was able to atain position that my skills are in demand to the people who matters. but you have to walk in th eperson's shoes as far as racism is.
Many who experience it don't even repeat it to their family. for the reason that they may seem to be complaining. They just quietly play the hand they are dealt.

[Tropicana]

Re: ar mzungu jamaicans racist?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: More4us</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tuff Gong</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Michael Menlie and his gang were the one who invented the race, class and shade divisive politics in Jamaica. Since then it has grown and thrived and now is a part of our culture. </div></div>
I thought race, class and shade divisive politics in Jamaica was brought to Jamaica by the Spanish and British who used the combination of the three to manage, control and distribute the wealth and resources among themselves while making sure the division lasted long after they left and gave us our so called 'independence'? </div></div>

Tuff Gong is the only person I have ever heard say that this is not the case.

[Dr.Dudd]

Re: ar mzungu jamaicans racist?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: More4us</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tuff Gong</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Michael Menlie and his gang were the one who invented the race, class and shade divisive politics in Jamaica. Since then it has grown and thrived and now is a part of our culture. </div></div>
I thought race, class and shade divisive politics in Jamaica was brought to Jamaica by the Spanish and British who used the combination of the three to manage, control and distribute the wealth and resources among themselves while making sure the division lasted long after they left and gave us our so called 'independence'? </div></div>Everything bad in jamaica happened during and after the 70's.Everything bad haopoen to jamaica <span style="font-weight: bold">I</span>s <span style="font-weight: bold">M</span>anley <span style="font-weight: bold">f</span>ault

[Tropicana]

Re: ar mzungu jamaicans racist?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr.Dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: gourmet</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Many white (light skinned) Jamaicans are indeed racist. Funny thing is, when they move to North America or Europe they often become the victims of racism. Talk about having the tables turned on you</div></div>
I'm sure some of them did find the adjustment a shock, but not all of them - some did just fine in foreign.
I went to university with some of them in Canada, whites and brownings who were diplomat's kids, etc, and they weren't suffering from discrimination, or from anything for that matter.
As a group, they were rich, and often beautiful, stylish and materialistic, and notably spoiled, selfish, and snobby. They tended to look down on Canadians who weren't as wealthy, well-travelled, and elite as they were. This kind of supports the class prejudice vs the race prejudice theory. </div></div>That's an opinion. sometimes we mistakenly assume that people don't experience racusm,because we think they don't.The majorioty do. many people claim that i din't experience racusm, sumply because I was able to atain position that my skills are in demand to the people who matters. but you have to walk in th eperson's shoes as far as racism is.
Many who experience it don't even repeat it to their family. for the reason that they may seem to be complaining. They just quietly play the hand they are dealt. </div></div>

You are right Dr. Dudd. There is another part of this too that has not been discussed. I know for a fact that some people deliberately mislead their relatives and friends back home about their situation. It was out of shame. Some would even take picturs of themselves in front of nice cars and houses and pass them off as their own. I am not saying all or even most but there were some instances of this and not just by so called White Jamaicans.

I have even seen some poor Jamaicans who were struggling work double shifts so that they could bring of send barrel with goods back home and mislead the relatives into thinking they were doing well. There is one particularly bad case but I can't give all details as it would violate confidentiality. Suffice it to say, the woman left for Jamaica with a barrel full of goods to impress relatives and left very little in the fridge for her children. I could actually tell you exactly what was in her fridge as I had to go before a judge and testify about it....won't say which court or which kind of case....but it would be going too far and might identify the family if they happen to be lurking. These were not White Jamaicans, so I am digressing and this is not the only example of this kind of thing.

My point is that White or Black, people are not always doing as well as they lead their friends and relatives to believe. My stance was always to tell it as it is and not participate in the masquerade that everything is peachy keen and wonderful in Canada. BTW, Jamaicans are not the only ethnic group to mislead relatives back home about how well they are doing.

[Tropicana]

Re: ar mzungu jamaicans racist?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr.Dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: More4us</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tuff Gong</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Michael Menlie and his gang were the one who invented the race, class and shade divisive politics in Jamaica. Since then it has grown and thrived and now is a part of our culture. </div></div>
I thought race, class and shade divisive politics in Jamaica was brought to Jamaica by the Spanish and British who used the combination of the three to manage, control and distribute the wealth and resources among themselves while making sure the division lasted long after they left and gave us our so called 'independence'? </div></div>Everything bad in jamaica happened during and after the 70's.Everything bad haopoen to jamaica <span style="font-weight: bold">I</span>s <span style="font-weight: bold">M</span>anley <span style="font-weight: bold">f</span>ault </div></div>

[Blackstar*]

Re: ar mzungu jamaicans racist?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr.Dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Everything bad haopoen to jamaica <span style="font-weight: bold">I</span>s <span style="font-weight: bold">M</span>anley <span style="font-weight: bold">f</span>ault </div></div>

[Tuff Gong]

Re: ar mzungu jamaicans racist?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tropicana</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: More4us</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tuff Gong</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Michael Menlie and his gang were the one who invented the race, class and shade divisive politics in Jamaica. Since then it has grown and thrived and now is a part of our culture. </div></div>
I thought race, class and shade divisive politics in Jamaica was brought to Jamaica by the Spanish and British who used the combination of the three to manage, control and distribute the wealth and resources among themselves while making sure the division lasted long after they left and gave us our so called 'independence'? </div></div>

Tuff Gong is the only person I have ever heard say that this is not the case. </div></div>

<span style="font-family: 'Arial Black'">LOL </span>what did I say was not teh case?

[Tuff Gong]

Re: ar mzungu jamaicans racist?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BlackStar</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr.Dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Everything bad haopoen to jamaica <span style="font-weight: bold">I</span>s <span style="font-weight: bold">M</span>anley <span style="font-weight: bold">f</span>ault </div></div>
</div></div>

He is right!

[Tuff Gong]

Re: ar mzungu jamaicans racist?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr.Dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: More4us</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tuff Gong</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Michael Menlie and his gang were the one who invented the race, class and shade divisive politics in Jamaica. Since then it has grown and thrived and now is a part of our culture. </div></div>
I thought race, class and shade divisive politics in Jamaica was brought to Jamaica by the Spanish and British who used the combination of the three to manage, control and distribute the wealth and resources among themselves while making sure the division lasted long after they left and gave us our so called 'independence'? </div></div>Everything bad in jamaica happened during and after the 70's.Everything bad haopoen to jamaica <span style="font-weight: bold">I</span>s <span style="font-weight: bold">M</span>anley <span style="font-weight: bold">f</span>ault </div></div>

You are right!

[Tuff Gong]

Re: ar mzungu jamaicans racist?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: More4us</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tuff Gong</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Michael Menlie and his gang were the one who invented the race, class and shade divisive politics in Jamaica. Since then it has grown and thrived and now is a part of our culture. </div></div>
I thought race, class and shade divisive politics in Jamaica was brought to Jamaica by the Spanish and British who used the combination of the three to manage, control and distribute the wealth and resources among themselves while making sure the division lasted long after they left and gave us our so called 'independence'? </div></div>You are right, but the question is about politics, not as history of racist colonialization that was well over e century old when the political divisions in Jamaica started appearing.
The Spanish and the British were not involved in Jamaican Party Politics after Independence In fact the Spanish were not involved in Jamaica in no way shape or form after 1655, they did not even try to retake the Islands.

It was Michael Menlie and his ilk that brought the destruction of Jamaica 21 Families as part of their mandate to the Country when they came to power. Under the banner of Better Mus Come they used every means at their disposal to do it.

They had goons ransack and burnt Jamaican business, while Menlie himself harangued against Capitalists, especially the White upper Class. He claimed that Jamaica had no place for millionaires and that those who wanted to become Millionaires should get on one of the five flights per day leaving for Miami.

The PNP under Michael Menlie invented all kinds of devices to put the Capitalist and so-called White Jamaicans under manners. They carried out their plans to the fullest extent.
When they were defeated and returned to power they were at it again.
This time the program was Black Man Time Now. The PNP through its spokesman said when they were done Jamaican Blacks would be the new Millionaires. Again they were wildly successful, so successful were they that Ronnie Twit one of their ilk, said that the PNP was responsible for the greatest transfer of wealth from the poor to the rich since slavery was abolished in Jamaica.

So to answer your question no the Spanish and the English had nothing to do with our racists politics.

[mountaingal]

Re: ar mzungu jamaicans racist?

Tuff Gong it seems to me ur having a slightly different argument than other folks.

ur trying to build a case that in the Manley years and after shadism was <span style="font-weight: bold">overtly </span>used as part of politics. that may be so, but that in itself does not disprove the history from slavery thru colonialism thru independence of white or lighter skin privilege at the expense of blacks in jamaica.

i was in jamaica in the 80s when a black businessman came on tv to talk about how he had a hard time getting financing for his business based on his <span style="font-weight: bold">colour</span>. i have friends who are self-employed in Jamaica and even in this day, realize that connections based on colour is what run tings, and often that colour ting is connected with family/name.

so it's a bit interesting to see u demand proof that white jamaican racism against black jamaicans exist when on all levels that's been shown - thru personal experience, thru literature, and probably even thru court cases if u choose to dig so far.

i believe u are a man who would not deliberately blind himself to what is right in front of him, so i'm concluding that ur using a different definition of racism - one that would allow u to see it as a bigger offence when so called black politicians use it against whites.

[Tuff Gong]

Re: ar mzungu jamaicans racist?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MGee</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Tuff Gong it seems to me ur having a slightly different argument than other folks.

ur trying to build a case that in the Manley years and after shadism was <span style="font-weight: bold">overtly </span>used as part of politics. that may be so, but that in itself does not disprove the history from slavery thru colonialism thru independence of white or lighter skin privilege at the expense of blacks in jamaica. </div></div>

I am not now nor have I ever claimed or try to diminish the fact that the there was racism, shadeism, favouritism and/or historic advantages. What I am disputing is the argument that British, the Spanish or Mahfood and the rest of their ilk had anything at all to do with our current situation and the so-called advantages that these folks seem to enjoy.

The posters making those claims have glossed over the 70s and the 90s, twice in our history when our economy was destroyed through political corruption, a time when racists bigotry was used to drive out a Jamaicans (and was more targeted to a certain class and shade of Jamaicans) of their businesses and out of Jamaica.

I did not see an English Man, a Spanish or the Mahfoods burning and looting Jamaicans. Anyone who takes that position should show proof. It is not inconceivable that if you start with an advantage, you plan carefully and you take care of the opportunities presented you can survive even a category max hurricane. In that sense we need to use the Mahfoods as a lab to see how they did it, not to make an outlandish and blanket claim that in the 1945 Blacks could not get a job at Nova Scotia Bank, so that is why Black are at the bottom of the pile.

[rufian]

Re: ar mzungu jamaicans racist?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tuff Gong</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I did not see an English Man, a Spanish or the Mahfoods burning and looting Jamaicans. Anyone who takes that position should show proof. </div></div>
Because you are looking for physical evidences.