jamaica's shame

[Tuff Gong]

Re: jamaica's shame

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: amberal37</div><div class="ubbcode-body">On this link don't see what this charity is referring to. Jumping from sex tourism to human trafficking? a big leap in my books. Not sure that it is right that they are banding this term about so lightly, unless they are doing it to get funding......

Someone pleeeease give me the evidence where there is this &quot;human trafficking&quot;.</div></div>

There is a lot of evidence including my personal observation that Sex Tourism is also linked with Human Trafficking in Jamaica. Yes most of it is voluntarily but look up Culloden, Westmoreland if you will, there used to be a big market for ostensibly go-go dancers, some of who ended up selling their wares on the Streets of the Tourism Centers.

<a href="http://www.jamaicaobserver.com/news/html/20050626t010000-0500_83123_obs_the_children_of_jamaica_s_sex_trade .asp" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"><span style="font-family: 'Arial Black'">The children of Jamaica's sex trade</span>
<span style="font-style: italic">Observer Reporter
Sunday, June 26, 2005</span></a>

<span style="font-family: 'Arial Black'"> Marlyn J. Jones Presentation to the 8 Colloquium on Women's Safety</span>
PDF Version

<a href="http://www.jamaicaobserver.com/news/html/20050901T000000-0500_87387_OBS_POLICE_SHUT_DOWN_SEX_AUCTION_IN_CUL LODEN.asp" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"><span style="font-family: 'Arial Black'">Police shut down sex auction in Culloden</span>
<span style="font-style: italic">Observer Reporter
Thursday, September 01, 2005</span></a>

[rudemonk]

Re: jamaica's shame

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: amberal37</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Firstly, I agree that the J'can government is failing it's citizens in many ways, but honestly the &quot;evidence&quot; that i see for a human trafficking problem seems anectdotal.

These agencies have not provided any strong statistics that would say that this was widespread issue in terms of human trafficking.

<span style="font-weight: bold">We should be careful of the labels that we adopt, as those incidents can be found in many western developed countries who choose not to apply these labels</span>

Yes it is important that there is a message there for the incidences that DO occur. I do also know of many instances of sexual abuse in from family and family friends - but not where the victim is or to be traffiched, but that is a whole different kettle of fish!

You also asked about how the go-go clubs get their people, but from the ones that I know well in jamaica, their 'managers' travel around asking after girls that they have heard of, I personally have not heard of incidences where thy have been underage (unless the girls have claimed to be older). And people who want to get into it, often know where the clubs are (Jamaica is not a big place - as I'm sure you know).
It is not an industry that i support or relish, but understand that there some women - not necessarily drugged up ones, seem to think that it is OK to do this sort of thing (think I must say that i have a cousin who does it, I hate it, but they feel there is nothing wrong with it and 'no man can touch them' attitude).

What it does sound like to me is a general education of girls(and boys) on what is self-respect.
What are these churches in jamaica doing?

</div></div>

well I think we are shifting the goal posts here...words like 'widespread' and such are relatively meaningless, and we are mixing up human trafficking with sex trafficking.

I believe the case studies you are looking for and statistical data are there, well beyond anecdotes which to me are more than submittable in a general sense to draw awareness to the problems facing women, but I realize if you are not aware of such anecdotes you may find them problematic to accept.

The young woman I mentioned anecdotally has gone through 3 jobs since she came off the street, each job she was subjected to the advances of her employer and made to feel or even I would say understand that her remaining employed was on condition of her acceptance of these advances. She left each job because she had developed a social safety net, so she could. But many of the young girls had to give it up to stay employed. So I think there is a cascading set of issues which in general speak to a low esteem of women.

I don't think such a conclusion- that in general there is an overarching sense of low esteem with which societies in general view women and their issues- would really shock anyone at all.

I would just point out that it is a recognized need that is starting to be filled by agencies such as Theodora and their partners. The safe houses are being built. I'd like to say I hope they will be empty houses or converted from their original purpose, but I don't think so.

A further point- many countries adopt labels as what suits their political situation- everyone hemmed and hawed at the idea of using the word genocide in Rwanda because of the automatic triggers that word is supposed to cause...but now everyone clearly recognizes that as one of the biggest stains on the world in recent times.

Whereas in the public some words and labels like human trafficking may carry in addition to their actual meanings some extra public connotations- which seems to me where you are having some concerns- the fact is that it is a problem in the public realm and how the public uses and views such terms, as far as Theodora I believe they are using the terms accurately as they are defined. I don't think they are making the case that the percentages are the same relative to say, Eastern Block former Soviet states or Guam or India, they are just saying there is a problem here, and there is very little being done to help, so we are stepping up to the plate. This can also be a way for the government to effect change and help themselves to stop failing to address the needs and safety of their citizens which is self sustainable and not a further draw on already strained resources.

[Tuff Gong]

Re: jamaica's shame

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: monk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">well I think we are shifting the goal posts here...words like 'widespread' and such are relatively meaningless, and we are mixing up human trafficking with sex trafficking. </div></div>There is no mix up, but both tend to exist in a kind of symbiotic relationship.
Jamaica has had a long history of both.

[Amberal37]

Re: jamaica's shame

OK, I read the articles.

I did find the it hard to comprehend where there is market for this trafficking, as no countries that I know of report Jamaican's being included in this category, and I know many countries that ARE in reports. So it's the first I have heard of this, hopefully this will not be a growing problem for Jamaicans generally.

It is annoying, because from years ago, since the government started making it legal for things like the Hedonism projects, whether in gated areas or not, and then the later publicity, it creates &quot;open season&quot; for those wanting their extra &quot;thrill&quot;. Most countries that seek to make their bread from tourism will risk this.

Major work is for the government to legislate tough laws against those that 'buy' these services
There is no supply without demand. Poverty Maybe a major factor, but that many girls are groomed by their mothers another major factors in terms of how they get a 'big man', there is an intrinsic learning formed that you are expecially nice to a man with money and often develops into the mentality of everyday girls being willing to give out much for their sub-perception of reward (prostitute mentality), which does not help in this scenario.

What I don't understand is why jamaica will be a transit route, bearing in mind there are such stringent visa requirements to the destination countries. If the law in Jamaica makes it easier to operate this way, then the government needs to get tough with zero tolerance. As offered - they should be able to get non-loan funding for this from the destination countries (eg. US, or Canada)

I still don't know if this is something that the government can deal with effectively without offering the victims alternative - such as employment. And whether a women's shelter can sort this as I can see this affects BOTH men/women, girls&amp;boys.

Legislation will be a huge start.

[Tuff Gong]

Re: jamaica's shame

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: amberal37</div><div class="ubbcode-body">OK, I read the articles.

I did find the it hard to comprehend where there is market for this trafficking, as no countries that I know of report Jamaican's being included in this category, and I know many countries that ARE in reports. So it's the first I have heard of this, hopefully this will not be a growing problem for Jamaicans generally. </div></div>Girls are also trafficked from other countries to Jamaica as dancers, workers and drug mules.
Consider also that trafficking does not have to be intra-Country it can also be inter-Country, something that done at the Girls Market in Westmoreland but also in the Garrisons were a Don would send for his choice of concubines from the newest crop of eligible YLs.

[Marielle]

Re: jamaica's shame

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RexCn</div><div class="ubbcode-body">In China, Equality Between Men and Women. </div></div>



but, what's the thing there.....? ain't no country in the world without domestic violence....

man/woman

woman/man

parent/child



......

[Marielle]

Re: jamaica's shame

don't they kill girl babies there?? like in India....

[Marielle]

Re: jamaica's shame

how's that for equality......

[Marielle]

Re: jamaica's shame

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: amberal37</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
as no countries that I know of report Jamaican's being included in this category, </div></div>

that's why it's so good that this discussion is going on here....

I NEVER knew this was going on in Jamaica.....

[Marielle]

Re: jamaica's shame

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tuff Gong</div><div class="ubbcode-body">[quote=amberal37]
Girls Market in Westmoreland </div></div>

what is that??!!

[Tuff Gong]

Re: jamaica's shame

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Marielle</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tuff Gong</div><div class="ubbcode-body">[quote=amberal37]
Girls Market in Westmoreland </div></div>

what is that??!! </div></div>
<a href="http://www.jamaicaobserver.com/news/html/20050626t010000-0500_83123_obs_the_children_of_jamaica_s_sex_trade .asp" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"><span style="font-family: 'Arial Black'">The children of Jamaica's sex trade</span>
<span style="font-style: italic">Observer Reporter
Sunday, June 26, 2005</span></a>

<span style="font-family: 'Arial Black'"> Marlyn J. Jones Presentation to the 8 Colloquium on Women's Safety</span>
PDF Version

<a href="http://www.jamaicaobserver.com/news/html/20050901T000000-0500_87387_OBS_POLICE_SHUT_DOWN_SEX_AUCTION_IN_CUL LODEN.asp" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"><span style="font-family: 'Arial Black'">Police shut down sex auction in Culloden</span>
<span style="font-style: italic">Observer Reporter
Thursday, September 01, 2005</span></a>

[Marielle]

Re: jamaica's shame

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dyl7_SVdius

[Marielle]

Re: jamaica's shame

oh, thanks for those links!!

will check it out in the morning....

[rudemonk]

Re: jamaica's shame

marielle- how is the cycle of abuse arrested?

[rudemonk]

Re: jamaica's shame

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: monk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">marielle- how is the cycle of abuse arrested? </div></div>