jamaica paradise island?

**jah_yout** · 05-11-2009, 02:41 AM

Re: jamaica paradise island?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Humano</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I can understand why some Jamaicans, even some on this board, will always blame colonialism (which is not to say that colonialism has no role) because it helps them to avoid placing the blame - substantially - where it belongs: on corruption and the political culture that breeds corruption, ineptitude, mismanagement, the failure of Jamaican citizens to demand more from their elected leaders. By blaming others, we avoid taking responsibility. Reference is made to 'history' and claims which cannot be corroborated. This intellectual dishonesty is not surprising. </div></div>

from what i've seen from jamaican 'leaders' i can no longer doubt they are in bed with the colonialists

**neutral** · 05-11-2009, 06:05 AM

Re: jamaica paradise island?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: britisha</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

In a nutshell, a house built on a rock near the sea will survive the waves; will survive the winds and the storms and the tempest...a house built <span style="font-weight: bold">on sand</span> by the sea in essence has NO foundation and will collapse under heavy rains much less the waves and the wind and the storm...Jamaica had no real foundation to speak of economic or otherwise, we were still beholden to "great britain", now that we are looking back...all we were left with was one wing and a prayer...a multi-tiered class system; the privileged having the monopoly...NO wonder we are now in a downward spiral...

<span style="font-weight: bold">You cannot make chicken soup from chikkin chit...nott'n noh goh soh</span> </div></div>

I dont agree with your analysis at all,Jamaica DID inherit a strong economy from the british,and dare I say it there has been periods since independence where it has enjoyed a strong economy,at one time a dollar was indeed a dollar and remained so,

In my opinion there are far more factors at play it`s all too simplistic and easy to say it`s all the fault of the former masters,and to apportion blame on them without taking into account OUR part in the whole thing,our corrupt politics,corrupt government,and the relationship between politicians and gunmen,and the fact that the distribution of wealth and income is fairly one sided.

**britisha** · 05-11-2009, 06:32 AM

Re: jamaica paradise island?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: neutral</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: britisha</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

In a nutshell, a house built on a rock near the sea will survive the waves; will survive the winds and the storms and the tempest...a house built <span style="font-weight: bold">on sand</span> by the sea in essence has NO foundation and will collapse under heavy rains much less the waves and the wind and the storm...Jamaica had no real foundation to speak of economic or otherwise, we were still beholden to "great britain", now that we are looking back...all we were left with was one wing and a prayer...a multi-tiered class system; the privileged having the monopoly...NO wonder we are now in a downward spiral...

<span style="font-weight: bold">You cannot make chicken soup from chikkin chit...nott'n noh goh soh</span> </div></div>

I dont agree with your analysis at all,Jamaica DID inherit a strong economy from the british,and dare I say it there has been periods since independence where it has enjoyed a strong economy,at one time a dollar was indeed a dollar and remained so,

In my opinion there are far more factors at play it`s all too simplistic and easy to say it`s all the fault of the former masters,and to apportion blame on them without taking into account OUR part in the whole thing,our corrupt politics,corrupt government,and the relationship between politicians and gunmen,and the fact that the distribution of wealth and income is fairly one sided.

</div></div><span style="font-weight: bold">

Ah yes, I remember when the American dollar was worth $J0.90 cents or there about</span>...That was when Michael Manley took the reigns of "power."I lost thousands of dollars investing then in Ja because I thought we were on to something good..You are quite correct in mentioning that other factors that you itemised play a role in our demise...but here it comes?

If we had such a strong foundation, why is the country in the economic and SOCIAL bind that it is today?

Our friend Mr. Thompson hinted at "Imperialism" just as Castro has been saying...maybe they are on to something that *I* don't know about..

**britisha** · 05-11-2009, 06:42 AM

Re: jamaica paradise island?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tuff Gong</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: britisha</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Your opine-ion is your opine-ion...you are entitled to it...you have made statements here concerning the history, status, problems issues name it and claim it, surrounding Jamaica, much of it is rehashed in this foo foo thread... so on that note, it would be a miracle if you agreed with the statement you called nonsense...LOL... </div></div>I don't see any dispute about opinions we all know who owns what opinions our monikers appear right beside them.
To claim Jamaica was left with nothing as a way to explain our present problems is nonsense. You have presented not one shred of proof. As to the argument that I have made the same arguments, actually no I have merely ask the same questions that I have been asking for over ten years whenever the same lame excuses are proffered </div></div>

You make me laugh...

..You are certainly funnier than I thought.

I keep saying that folks should not believe everything or anything they read on this message board...at least *I* don't...so don't hot up yuh head over trivialities ..there are bigger fish to fry....the past cannot be undone.

....Here you go again asking for "shred of proof"...How did I know that was waiting in the wings? ((Chukkle)) .
Insanity is doing the same thing repeatedly and expecting different results...Re-read your old posts, YOU will find YOUR proof therein. I refuse to join you in beating the dead horse. He is dead.

**uswe** · 05-11-2009, 06:42 AM

Re: jamaica paradise island?

Britisha, do you mean that there are "higher forces" at work who are deliberately hindering Jamaica's progress?

Or that elements of the Jamaican upper classes have an "Imperialist" mentality?

**britisha** · 05-11-2009, 06:51 AM

Re: jamaica paradise island?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: uswe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Britisha, do you mean that there are "higher forces" at work who are deliberately hindering Jamaica's progress?

Or that elements of the Jamaican upper classes have an "Imperialist" mentality? </div></div>

What I believe is unimportant to the discussion Uswe...it just follows logically that we live in a globally economy, and all WEAK economies are affected directly/indirectly by the stronger ones who really "call the shots"...for starters, see the documentary "Life and Debt.."

Read up on the CIA's involvement in destabilizing countries...and as history will show, "Mother England" never wanted any of it's colonies to achieve "self-government" Check what happened to our recent sugar prices, among other things..last but not least, check the status of all so-called Commonwealth nations, .compare and contrast them....this will take some time, prolly even a year to find the info and place it in proper context...for whre Jamaica is concerned, we would be going back over 40 years...

walk good.

**uswe** · 05-11-2009, 07:31 AM

Re: jamaica paradise island?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: britisha</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: uswe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Britisha, do you mean that there are "higher forces" at work who are deliberately hindering Jamaica's progress?

Or that elements of the Jamaican upper classes have an "Imperialist" mentality? </div></div>

What I believe is unimportant to the discussion Uswe...it just follows logically that we live in a globally economy, and all WEAK economies are affected directly/indirectly by the stronger ones who really "call the shots"...for starters, see the documentary "Life and Debt.."

Read up on the CIA's involvement in destabilizing countries...and as history will show, "Mother England" never wanted any of it's colonies to achieve "self-government" Check what happened to our recent sugar prices, among other things..last but not least, check the status of all so-called Commonwealth nations, .compare and contrast them....this will take some time, prolly even a year to find the info and place it in proper context...for whre Jamaica is concerned, we would be going back over 40 years...

walk good.

</div></div>

What you believe is important to the discussion, as this is a polemical issue. I've seen life and debt documentary, some have argued that it was the policies of the Michael Manley lead PNP government that resulted in Jamaica having to go cap in hand to the IMF and having to adhere to its structural adjustment programmes. From which Jamaica has never really recovered.

Former CIA operative, the late Phillip Agee was on record as saying that the CIA actively participated in destabilising Jamaica. Although this hasn't been proven conclusively, though it wouldn't surprise me one bit though given this was the height of the cold war, Jamaica being in America's back yard and their "reds under the bed" paranoia. There was even a rumour that the US planned to invade Jamaica if Manley had won the the 1980 election.

That said, who is ultimately responsible for the countries current state? the former colonialists, or the politicians? I tend to lean towards the latter.

**neutral** · 05-11-2009, 09:30 AM

Re: jamaica paradise island?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: britisha</div><div class="ubbcode-body">..it just follows logically that we live in a globally economy, and all WEAK economies are affected directly/indirectly by the stronger ones who really "call the shots"...for starters, see the documentary "Life and Debt.."

Read up on the CIA's involvement in destabilizing countries...and as history will show, "Mother England" never wanted any of it's colonies to achieve "self-government" Check what happened to our recent sugar prices, among other things..

</div></div>

Yes you are correct about weaker economies being affected in the global economic tussle,however,I am no historian on the matter,but I find the suggestion incredible that the UK would somehow act in some kind of spiteful way to hinder the advancement of any of its former colonies,would this be in its interest,considering the amount of aid given to jamaica by its former masters.

For me there are many factors contributing to jamaica`s ailment,some of it caused by the global economy,trade agreements/disagreements,etc,but there are many that we can solve ourselves,but we have to be honest about it,if we dont start acknowledging that we have problems and continue to be in denial,then jamaica could end up like haiti one day.

**gourmet** · 05-11-2009, 10:04 AM

Re: jamaica paradise island?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">if we dont start acknowledging that we have problems and continue to be in denial,then jamaica could end up like haiti one day.
</div></div>
In 2005, haiti had a murder rate of 11.5 victims per 100,000 inhabitants, while Jamaica had a rate of 62 victims per 100,000 inhabitants.
Given that Haiti is even poorer than Jamaica, with fewer resources, and several times the population of Jamaica, and yet less violent, Haiti is the healthier more successful society.

**Dr.Dudd** · 05-11-2009, 10:13 AM

Re: jamaica paradise island?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: britisha</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: neutral</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: britisha</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

In a nutshell, a house built on a rock near the sea will survive the waves; will survive the winds and the storms and the tempest...a house built <span style="font-weight: bold">on sand</span> by the sea in essence has NO foundation and will collapse under heavy rains much less the waves and the wind and the storm...Jamaica had no real foundation to speak of economic or otherwise, we were still beholden to "great britain", now that we are looking back...all we were left with was one wing and a prayer...a multi-tiered class system; the privileged having the monopoly...NO wonder we are now in a downward spiral...

<span style="font-weight: bold">You cannot make chicken soup from chikkin chit...nott'n noh goh soh</span> </div></div>

I dont agree with your analysis at all,Jamaica DID inherit a strong economy from the british,and dare I say it there has been periods since independence where it has enjoyed a strong economy,at one time a dollar was indeed a dollar and remained so,

In my opinion there are far more factors at play it`s all too simplistic and easy to say it`s all the fault of the former masters,and to apportion blame on them without taking into account OUR part in the whole thing,our corrupt politics,corrupt government,and the relationship between politicians and gunmen,and the fact that the distribution of wealth and income is fairly one sided.

</div></div><span style="font-weight: bold">

Ah yes, I remember when the American dollar was worth $J0.90 cents or there about</span>...That was when Michael Manley took the reigns of "power."I lost thousands of dollars investing then in Ja because I thought we were on to something good..You are quite correct in mentioning that other factors that you itemised play a role in our demise...but here it comes?

If we had such a strong foundation, why is the country in the economic and SOCIAL bind that it is today?

Our friend Mr. Thompson hinted at "Imperialism" just as Castro has been saying...maybe they are on to something that *I* don't know about.. </div></div>
So the gas crisis I can remember that brought the world to it's knees The reason why Jamaica got the shaft was because it was not freeto increase the proce of it's export. When it id thatt with Bauxite the Americans almost created an economic blockade,a dn increase importation of tools of mahem, that they use to soften the people's will. They didn't have strength for the Arabs that raise the oil on them. Only Jamaica. Of course Jamaicans were not like Iraqi. Iraqi had guns and were willing to die dedfending their country. Jamaicans are afrAID to have one intheir posession.
They were well indictrinated to love the things that keep them in chains. and hate that that will help them to stand on their own feet.

**Yuriatin** · 05-11-2009, 10:34 AM

Re: jamaica paradise island?

Neutral - I haven't been thru this whole thread - juss buck up pan fi yuh poas yah suh.

You've never written a more accurate post!

I see and have experienced far, far too much of this.

<span style="color: #FF0000"><span style="font-style: italic">I hate it</span></span>.

Hate it even more when I see it in various forms, here on the board.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: neutral</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: britisha</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Here comes this man to tell us what we already know, I just love when foreigners do that..under the guise of "looking out for the darkies"??...even going to the extent in using the "N" word in a piece about Jamaica... but to see only the music making, the physical beauty and the recent Olympic achievements, simply means that somebody is not in tune with the good side of our country; and is therefore NOT QUALIFIED TO SPEAK on it's matters...for yes, we will beat it down, but we are still proud of many of our achievements as a small nation. ::
</div></div>

I do agree with you,some people,especially foreigners,..are most definitely not qualified to speak on jamaica`s behalf, <span style="color: #FF0000"><span style="font-style: italic">they visit for a few days,get some local personality to drive them down a couple streets,and talk to locals from the safety of their car, and then act as if they are qualified to speak</span> </span>with some authority on what they perceive to be jamaica`s problems,..I have no time for people like this,...but every now and again you get an a-hole like this that refreshes the page on the discussion surrounding jamaica`s post independence blues. </div></div>

**Tuff Gong** · 05-11-2009, 11:05 AM

Re: jamaica paradise island?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: britisha</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Insanity is doing the same thing repeatedly and expecting different results...Re-read your old posts, YOU will find YOUR proof therein. I refuse to join you in beating the dead horse. He is dead. </div></div>Wait you have totally got it wrong. I did not introduce or re-introduce these arguments I merely asked the same questions I have always asked when these lame, idiotic notions are proffered with not one shred of supporting evidence. Where is the proof?

Are you saying I am insane for asking for proof?

**Tuff Gong** · 05-11-2009, 11:15 AM

Re: jamaica paradise island?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: britisha</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What I believe is unimportant to the discussion Uswe...it just follows logically that we live in a globally economy, and all WEAK economies are affected directly/indirectly by the stronger ones who really "call the shots"...for starters, see the documentary "Life and Debt.."</div></div>

You mean Lies and Debts don't you. The documentary Lies and Debts was brilliant in that it attempted to make a case against the IMF using the very same actors that put us in the pickle in the first place, it ignored the main actors admissions that he was the one who went to IMF.

It never sought to find out why the country fell into debts, so deep that it needed a Prime Minister to go cap in hand all over the world to beg money.

It never asked about the lootings, burning, internal destabilization the said Prime Minister of Jamaica encouraged.
It sought to paint the factory owners in the Free Zone as oppressive but never asked what the role of Government.
What would happen to those workers when the Free Zone left?

**Tuff Gong** · 05-11-2009, 11:20 AM

Re: jamaica paradise island?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: britisha</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Those other islands like Cayman are inhabited by many of Jamaican descent...but they were smart, they never asked for Independence...moreover, they are now in the big boy's league...hiding money from thieves and crooks, and as you know <span style="font-weight: bold">money talks and b-s walks</span>..the loot has to be protected...now Obama is pushing for no more secret accounts where thieves like Madoff can hide the loot..

Barbados never really shook off the British culture...diss is why dem still refer to Bajans as the British of the Caribbean...they were never forceful and uppity as Jamaicans..even to this day, yuh can tell a Bajan in a group of West Indians...dat wurd </div></div>

So this the simple reason why they are doing better than us? Why their Governments are not corrupt?
Why they did not try to sterilize their country running a certain class of people out?
Why their security forces are not as corrupt and abusive as ours?

**Tuff Gong** · 05-11-2009, 11:27 AM

Re: jamaica paradise island?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: britisha</div><div class="ubbcode-body">for starters, see the documentary "Life and Debt.." </div></div>

<span style="font-family: 'Arial Black'">So a foreigner making Lies and Debts = Good</span>
But any other foreigners writing about problems in Jamaica circa 2009 is not good uh?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: britisha</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
<span style="font-weight: bold">...and we are in no hurry to have you back either...</span> :::..afterall noh yuh forefathers shegged us up and left us in the pickle?

Mi had a hard time wid dis, cuddn't google anything wid this man's name...pure red flag waawning a go up on my computah...annihow...

The piece contains many truths, but at the same time it is a slap in the face of all Jamaicans as far as I can see it....

Here comes this man to tell us what we already know, I just love when foreigners do that..under the guise of "looking out for the darkies"??...</div></div>

jamaica paradise island?

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