jamaica paradise island?

[Tuff Gong]

Re: jamaica paradise island?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Yuri_</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I do agree with you,some people,especially foreigners,..are most definitely not qualified to speak on jamaica`s behalf, <span style="color: #FF0000"><span style="font-style: italic">they visit for a few days,get some local personality to drive them down a couple streets,and talk to locals from the safety of their car, and then act as if they are qualified to speak</span> </span>with some authority on what they perceive to be jamaica`s problems,..I have no time for people like this,...but every now and again you get an a-hole like this that refreshes the page on the discussion surrounding jamaica`s post independence blues. </div></div>

I get it already foreigners are not qualified to speak on Jamaicans problems. I do hope Jamaicans who have run away from the Rock, especially the ones who have taken foreign citizenship get the message....ST#U

[Tuff Gong]

Re: jamaica paradise island?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jah_yout</div><div class="ubbcode-body">usually whenever i post this someone says i'm 'hotting up myself'...or 'bringle';
true story...
THE OFFICIAL HEAD OF STATE OF JAMAICA IS THE BRITISH QUEEN...
it's always weird to me that jamaicans usually just shrug this off and say i'm making a big deal over nothing...
why is the queen of england jamaica's head of state in this day and time? </div></div>What is this in answer to?

[Tuff Gong]

Re: jamaica paradise island?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jah_yout</div><div class="ubbcode-body">have you not noticed blatant america worship in j-a since the 1980's?</div></div>…..replaced blatant British worship, Blatant Cuban worship.
It is said that there are at least 2Mil Jamaicans living in the Diaspora most in the USA, (I have no proof), but it is even half correct then I don't find it surprising that Jamaicans might want to adopt some items for the country they flee to more frequently.

But our problems did not start in 80s, so there is no reason to blame the USA. Even if it is so and I am wrong what create the cultural vacuum that enable the worst aspects of the USA's culture to be so dominant in Jamaica?

[jah_yout]

Re: jamaica paradise island?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tuff Gong</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jah_yout</div><div class="ubbcode-body">usually whenever i post this someone says i'm 'hotting up myself'...or 'bringle';
true story...
THE OFFICIAL HEAD OF STATE OF JAMAICA IS THE BRITISH QUEEN...
it's always weird to me that jamaicans usually just shrug this off and say i'm making a big deal over nothing...
why is the queen of england jamaica's head of state in this day and time? </div></div>What is this in answer to? </div></div>


this is re dr dudd:

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

<span style="font-style: italic">It will soon be made public knowledge. As soon as the country is ready to move on to true independence, they will see it fit to make the truth be known to the citizens. At the moment Jamaicans are not citizens. They are still subjects of the queen. The queenis still the head of state,and only a Un mandate is stoping the full return of direct control. </span>

[jah_yout]

Re: jamaica paradise island?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tuff Gong</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jah_yout</div><div class="ubbcode-body">have you not noticed blatant america worship in j-a since the 1980's?</div></div>…..replaced blatant British worship, Blatant Cuban worship.
It is said that there are at least 2Mil Jamaicans living in the Diaspora most in the USA, (I have no proof), but it is even half correct then I don't find it surprising that Jamaicans might want to adopt some items for the country they flee to more frequently.

But our problems did not start in 80s, so there is no reason to blame the USA. Even if it is so and I am wrong what create the cultural vacuum that enable the worst aspects of the USA's culture to be so dominant in Jamaica? </div></div>
i'll venture to say that neither british worship nor cuban worship was 1 sixteenth as strong as the americanism which has swept the island...complete with the overwhelming desire for consumer goods, fast-food chains &amp; all the trappings of the 'good life'

[Tuff Gong]

Re: jamaica paradise island?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jah_yout</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tuff Gong</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jah_yout</div><div class="ubbcode-body">usually whenever i post this someone says i'm 'hotting up myself'...or 'bringle';
true story...
THE OFFICIAL HEAD OF STATE OF JAMAICA IS THE BRITISH QUEEN...
it's always weird to me that jamaicans usually just shrug this off and say i'm making a big deal over nothing...
why is the queen of england jamaica's head of state in this day and time? </div></div>What is this in answer to? </div></div>


this is re dr dudd:

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

<span style="font-style: italic">It will soon be made public knowledge. As soon as the country is ready to move on to true independence, they will see it fit to make the truth be known to the citizens. At the moment Jamaicans are not citizens. They are still subjects of the queen. The queenis still the head of state,and only a Un mandate is stoping the full return of direct control. </span> </div></div>

Ok...but are we subjects of the Queen or is she just the head of State?

[uswe]

Re: jamaica paradise island?

Jamaicans are citizens of Jamaica, and not subjects of the British Monarch.

[Tuff Gong]

Re: jamaica paradise island?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jah_yout</div><div class="ubbcode-body">i'll venture to say that neither british worship nor cuban worship was 1 sixteenth as strong as the americanism which has swept the island...complete with the overwhelming desire for consumer goods, fast-food chains &amp; all the trappings of the 'good life' </div></div>

So the problem is strength of domination?

I cannot really gauge that because I have nothing to go by.
Certainly Fast Foods were in Jamaica before 1980. The oldest McDonalds is on HWT Road <span style="font-style: italic">(but is not part of the franchise)</span>; we already had Kentucky Franchises before 1980s...if I remember correctly.

Most of all the Jamaicans have been had a yearning for fashion and the good life ever since I have known about us; I am really not getting you on this.
I mean the haggler explosion started in the 70s with trips to Curacao, Haiti and Puerto Rico when Menlie chased out the local cloth dealers.... This was well before the 80s, in a time of war, strife and a failing economy, surely they must have been filling a need?

[Tuff Gong]

Re: jamaica paradise island?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jah_yout</div><div class="ubbcode-body">from what i've seen from jamaican 'leaders' i can no longer doubt they are in bed with the colonialists </div></div>meaning what?
Are we still a Colonial Country?

[Tuff Gong]

Re: jamaica paradise island?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: britisha</div><div class="ubbcode-body">...but here it comes?

If we had such a strong foundation, why is the country in the economic and SOCIAL bind that it is today?

Our friend Mr. Thompson hinted at &quot;Imperialism&quot; just as Castro has been saying...maybe they are on to something that *I* don't know about.. </div></div>LOL so even when you don't know what they are hinting at you rather accept the words of the ones who armed Jamaicans against Jamaicans and failed to build on what you are admitting was a strong foundation?

[Dyoll_73]

Re: jamaica paradise island?

I find it to be the height of intellectual dishonesty that in all the analyses of Jamaica's problems being put forward by the apologists here, the blame has always been attributed to imperialists, colonialists, foreigners, but never - never - to the culture of corruption, ineptitude and mismanagement fostered by Jamaican leaders. And you expect to be taken seriously?

Even after 48 years - and counting - following Independence, we are still blaming the colonialists, when we had more than enough time to build up Jamaica. Jamaica enjoyed some economic growth following Independence, but it wasn't an equitable growth. But in correcting those inequities, policies were implemented by Michael Manley which had dire consequences for the economy. The danger of oversimplification was evident there: capitalism vs socialism (or as Manley called it, democratic socialism), one or the other. A hybrid system would have been the better solution: combine the best of the welfare state (substantial state investment in education, health care, a social safety net, etc) with the best of capitalism. But that wasn't done: so you implement certain socialist programs while simultaneously, in effect, driving the entrepreneurial class (the evil capitalists) out of Jamaica. So where would the money come from to fund the social programs? The opposite is also true: purist capitalism will wreak tremendous hardship on citizens. In economics, as in almost any area of human existence, oversimplifications are dangerous.

Add to this ineptitude, the mismanagement of Jamaica's finances, its resources and the various public sector agencies, culture of coruption in the armed forces and state agencies, the systematic arming of citizens to kill each other, creating garrisons to preserve the political base of certain politicians. And no analysis would be complete without acknowledging the role that Jamaican citizens themselves have played in allowing this travesty to occur over these last decades. With even a shred of decency and honesty, we would point to the real culprit: us - Jamaicans.

[neutral]

Re: jamaica paradise island?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tuff Gong</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Yuri_</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I do agree with you,some people,especially foreigners,..are most definitely not qualified to speak on jamaica`s behalf, <span style="color: #FF0000"><span style="font-style: italic">they visit for a few days,get some local personality to drive them down a couple streets,and talk to locals from the safety of their car, and then act as if they are qualified to speak</span> </span>with some authority on what they perceive to be jamaica`s problems,..I have no time for people like this,...but every now and again you get an a-hole like this that refreshes the page on the discussion surrounding jamaica`s post independence blues. </div></div>

I get it already foreigners are not qualified to speak on Jamaicans problems. I do hope Jamaicans who have run away from the Rock, especially the ones who have taken foreign citizenship get the message....ST#U </div></div>


I wouldnt exactly say that foreigners are not qualified to comment on jamaica`s problems,however in some cases they get it very wrong,you and I both know as jamaicans that there are certain elements of jamaican culture that is very difficult for johnny foreigner to penetrate,in order to present an indept analysis he/she would have to know about the jamaican psyche,and how certain elements of our character are imbued and conditioned,...it is a cultural thing.

LOl @ jamaicans who run away and taken foreign citizenship,big man yu no easy.

[Dyoll_73]

Re: jamaica paradise island?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jah_yout</div><div class="ubbcode-body">THE OFFICIAL HEAD OF STATE OF JAMAICA IS THE BRITISH QUEEN...
it's always weird to me that jamaicans usually just shrug this off and say i'm making a big deal over nothing...
why is the queen of england jamaica's head of state in this day and time? </div></div>

I'm for Jamaica being a republic. At the same time, what you are saying here is merely a diversion, since - as you should know - the Queens's powers are ceremonial; real power lies in Parliament and the Cabinet headed by the Prime Minister. Even in the UK, this is also the case. The power of the Crown has been diminished over the many years since <span style="font-style: italic">Magna Carta</span>. Having the Queen as Jamaica's head of state is not the cause of Jamaica's problems. I could tell you that Canada, Australia, New Zealand, etc, have no problems with the Queen and have enjoyed high standards of living, but then you'll say that these are white countries, and since Jamaica is a black country, we will always get screwed.

[Tuff Gong]

Re: jamaica paradise island?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: britisha</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Read up on the CIA's involvement in destabilizing countries...</div></div>LOL so we go to proximity rule.
If the CIA was destabilizing countries it must have destabilized Jamaica. Menlie himself asked about this said there was evidence that the USA played any roles in the destabilization of Jamaica and I agree with him.

After all it was not the CIA that:

Gave a 15 times convicted man a gun which directly led to the State of Emergency when the aforesaid Menlie caused his political enemies to be locked up and tortured.

It was not the CIA, that started the Eventide fire, the Orange Lane fire, Gold Street massacre, the Green Bay killings, the Rema evictions, the Payne Avenue evictions and many other acts of terror against the Jamaican people.

It was not the CIA that chased out the Jamaicans out of their homes and businesses and exhorts them to catch one of the five flights per day out of Jamaica.

If you will show proof tell us what the CIA did to destabilize Jamaica.

[Dr.Dudd]

Re: jamaica paradise island?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tuff Gong</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: britisha</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Read up on the CIA's involvement in destabilizing countries...</div></div>LOL so we go to proximity rule.
If the CIA was destabilizing countries it must have destabilized Jamaica. Menlie himself asked about this said there was evidence that the USA played any roles in the destabilization of Jamaica and I agree with him.

After all it was not the CIA that:

Gave a 15 times convicted man a gun which directly led to the State of Emergency when the aforesaid Menlie caused his political enemies to be locked up and tortured.

It was not the CIA, that started the Eventide fire, the Orange Lane fire, Gold Street massacre, the Green Bay killings, the Rema evictions, the Payne Avenue evictions and many other acts of terror against the Jamaican people.

It was not the CIA that chased out the Jamaicans out of their homes and businesses and exhorts them to catch one of the five flights per day out of Jamaica.

If you will show proof tell us what the CIA did to destabilize Jamaica. </div></div>Show proof that anybody give 15 times convicted prisoner gun which directly led to the State of emergency?