Patwa fainali av wan raitin sistim.

**Dr.Dudd** · 07-04-2009, 06:21 PM

Re: Patwa fainali av wan raitin sistim.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Iron_Man</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr.Dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: missus_vegas</div><div class="ubbcode-body">i didnt say dem fi stop teach english...and maybe me stupid but i didnte get eh idea that the video is saying dont teach enlish eidda </div></div> That is the plan as soon as it become the official language.

The next step is to make up statistics to prove that children learn better in it.
Then the children have to be educated in it.
The courts legal documents and business will be conducted in it.
English will be taught as a foreign language That is what the UWI program that was paid for by the Swiss organization goal is and being introduced to nutralize the effect of Jamaicans on world affairs.
remember Jamaica has always been at th efore front of demanding human rights in Africa. While China is trying to get every student to lesarn english, Jamaica is trying to waste money on trying toget theirs tolesrn a language that no advance information is recotded it. </div></div>

Jamaica would never REPLACE English with Jamaican Creole! That's just ridiculous! You are getting INCREDIBLY FAR FETCHED... but I'm not surprised... just about all of your posts go waaaay beyond reality. </div></div>Yes you reality is all about past My reality i sto project and prepare for the future. What percentage of Jamaican children in primary school speak and understand fluent English?
If they are being taught in the language and it is so low, what will happen when they have the option of learning in patois?
have you ever hear if the theory that states that the bad will always force out the good, if they are given equal footing?
Well it is proven universally to be so. People will always gravitate to the easiest way. the easiest way will be to teach and learn in patois. and one you get down that road you will not be able to return.

**RcOmK** · 07-04-2009, 06:22 PM

Re: Patwa fainali av wan raitin sistim.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr.Dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Iron_Man</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr.Dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Originally posted by missus_vegas

Originally posted by Dr.Dudd

Originally posted by Iron_Man

UWI has been working on making a standard Jamaican Creole writing system and it's finally done!
Dem av werk buk dem an vidyo dem fi tiich di nuu sitim, an dem a chrai fi tiich it ina di skuul dem fi promuot praid fi Jamieka mada tong.

So here is this music video that they made to promote it:

<object width="425" height="350"> <param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/2rx4FAIxaTE&feature=channel_page"></param> <param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param> <embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/2rx4FAIxaTE&feature=channel_page" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"> </embed></object> </div></div>You mean they spend money on that?
What about something that could help more Jamaican kids to communicate in english?
So what we are going t do wit hit?
talk to each other better?
That is what I call a headless chicken.
just because some organization that has no interest in what is good for Jamaica gave them some money they jump and waste taxpayers facilities to produce a useless or damaging product. They have been trying every strategy to sideline Jamaicans like they did with the Haitians who's language is only spoken in their country. I suppose in a few decades Jamaican s will be like Haitians who's education is limited to texts written in a language that has very little knowledge recorded in it. </div></div>

i beg to differ. a long time dem fi me patwah di offical second language. or atleast official second dialect. it is the day to day language of the majority. and neweh pan di wurl u go ppl ask...oh do u speak jamaican.... </div></div> They did it in Haiti in the 70's. since the 70's the official language is creole and what it does to th eones educated it it is ti make it difficult for them to immigrate to France. They use to immigrate to France, they don't speak the language. and they find it difficult to find manuals to translate from creole to English in the US.

Haiti has TWO OFFICIAL LANGUAGES: <span style="font-weight: bold">FRENCH AND HAITIAN CREOLE.</span>

<span style="color: #660000">LOOK IT UP!</span>

Of Course they had to do that because they had to have a language that they can communicate to others it. But they teach the children in creole and it stifles them in and out of the country since the children cannot read anything in any other language unless they pay money and learn that language. Dominican republic kids can go on line and use Spanish language Internet. Then can also use any translator on line to translate English to spanish. The average Haitian kid can't do that. The average Jamaican kid can still speak to a foreign tourist, how long after the change will be before Jamaicans that don't go to college will be able to speak or even use the Internet?

Most Haitian children wouldn't even be able to afford a computer, let alone the internet! So, i don't see how that has anything to do with them know Kreyol.

Secondly, you are wrong. I know plenty of Haitians who speak French. In fact when i began to learn French, I had one of my Haitian friends teach me the basics; my sister's best friend is Haitian and they went to Montreal and her Haitian friend did all the talking because her family spoke French and Kreyol at home.

The point is that you're wrong, not all Haitians don't speak French.

**Dr.Dudd** · 07-04-2009, 06:26 PM

Re: Patwa fainali av wan raitin sistim.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Iron_Man</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: missus_vegas</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

US spell centah as center. Canada spell it as centre...it still mean di sed ting.....
Canadian french speak diff from African french or even France french...and is still french.

each spanish speaking country has a diff way of saying certain word/ phrases etc....is still spanish. </div></div>

Sorry dear, but your example is one of COMPARING DIALECTS OF THE SAME LANGUAGE.

A good example would be that English started out as a Creole language: it's a mix between French and German. In fact, in it's early stages, it was looked down upon for being a vulgar, low-class language.

French is another good example of a prestigious language that started out as a Creole Language; Mixed with Gaelic and Latin.

<span style="color: #006600">I'm not saying that Patwa will necessarily become as prominent as French and English today,</span> but the <span style="text-decoration: underline">point is that early peoples talked crap about those languages being unnecessary and a waste and look who has the last laugh. </span> </div></div>Patois will only become as widely spoken if we have a lot of new knowledge that has been recorded in it and cannot be translated to other language. Even the Chinese is learning English as many American high schools are teaching mandarin to take advantage of the large population of mandarin speakers in the future.

**Xavier** · 07-04-2009, 06:26 PM

Re: Patwa fainali av wan raitin sistim.

When I first started Jamaicans.com I was adamant in my replies to inquires that patois is not a language. Even though we had a dictionary, sound clips and phrases I would still call it a dialect. That has changed a few years ago in a discussion I had with a linguist. Basically I was told that before any written material a "language" was anyway a person communicated. There was no structure or grammer in the first languages. It was spoken. Same thing with many of the African languages. So I argued back and said patois is based on English. That did not hold water either as many languages are "derived" from others and share the same words.

I was still a little skeptical of calling patois a language but stopped calling it a "dialect". That has changed since I started reading the children stories in patois and posting them online. I have not met and communicated with descendants of Jamaicans who live in Panama, Costa Rica, Honduras and Nicaragua who know patois as a separate language. What was even more shocking was them telling me that some people speak patois but do not know English. I know that is hard to believe but I have gotten confirmation that it is true. Every word is patois to them. I am considering doing an article on this for the site as I am still doing some more research.

Bottomline for me now is that Jamaican Patois is a language.

PS: I never thought the day would come when I would be saying this.

**RcOmK** · 07-04-2009, 06:30 PM

Re: Patwa fainali av wan raitin sistim.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr.Dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Iron_Man</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr.Dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Originally posted by missus_vegas

i didnt say dem fi stop teach english...and maybe me stupid but i didnte get eh idea that the video is saying dont teach enlish eidda </div></div> That is the plan as soon as it become the official language.

The next step is to make up statistics to prove that children learn better in it.
Then the children have to be educated in it.
The courts legal documents and business will be conducted in it.
English will be taught as a foreign language That is what the UWI program that was paid for by the Swiss organization goal is and being introduced to nutralize the effect of Jamaicans on world affairs.
remember Jamaica has always been at th efore front of demanding human rights in Africa. While China is trying to get every student to lesarn english, Jamaica is trying to waste money on trying toget theirs tolesrn a language that no advance information is recotded it. </div></div>

Jamaica would never REPLACE English with Jamaican Creole! That's just ridiculous! You are getting INCREDIBLY FAR FETCHED... but I'm not surprised... just about all of your posts go waaaay beyond reality. </div></div>Yes you reality is all about past My reality i sto project and prepare for the future. What percentage of Jamaican children in primary school speak and understand fluent English?
If they are being taught in the language and it is so low, what will happen when they have the option of learning in patois?
have you ever hear if the theory that states that the bad will always force out the good, if they are given equal footing?
Well it is proven universally to be so. People will always gravitate to the easiest way. the easiest way will be to teach and learn in patois. and one you get down that road you will not be able to return.

You don't seem to understand. The point of this initiative is NOT to replace teaching in English with teaching in Jamaican Creole. The point is to have either one class a day or a couple classes a week where there is poetry in Jamaican Creole, proverbs in Jamaican Creole, learning about the bases of Jamaican Creole (English, West African dialects, Spanish, French, Hindi, etc), ETC.

So to reiterate the point: They DO NOT PLAN TO REPLACE TEACHING IN ENGLISH WITH TEACHING IN PATWA.

**RcOmK** · 07-04-2009, 06:33 PM

Re: Patwa fainali av wan raitin sistim.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Xavier</div><div class="ubbcode-body">When I first started Jamaicans.com I was adamant in my replies to inquires that patois is not a language. Even though we had a dictionary, sound clips and phrases I would still call it a dialect. That has changed a few years ago in a discussion I had with a linguist. Basically I was told that before any written material a "language" was anyway a person communicated. There was no structure or grammer in the first languages. It was spoken. Same thing with many of the African languages. So I argued back and said patois is based on English. That did not hold water either as many languages are "derived" from others and share the same words.

I was still a little skeptical of calling patois a language but stopped calling it a "dialect". That has changed since I started reading the children stories in patois and posting them online. I have not met and communicated with descendants of Jamaicans who live in Panama, Costa Rica, Honduras and Nicaragua who know patois as a separate language. What was even more shocking was them telling me that some people speak patois but do not know English. I know that is hard to believe but I have gotten confirmation that it is true. Every word is patois to them. I am considering doing an article on this for the site as I am still doing some more research.

Bottomline for me now is that Jamaican Patois is a language.

PS: I never thought the day would come when I would be saying this. </div></div>

BRAVO!!!

WOW, I'M SO GLAD YOU POSTED THIS COMMENT!

THIS I WHAT I HAVE BEEN TRYING TO TELL THE SKEPTICS IN THIS THREAD!

**Dr.Dudd** · 07-04-2009, 06:34 PM

Re: Patwa fainali av wan raitin sistim.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Xavier</div><div class="ubbcode-body">When I first started Jamaicans.com I was adamant in my replies to inquires that patois is not a language. Even though we had a dictionary, sound clips and phrases I would still call it a dialect. That has changed a few years ago in a discussion I had with a linguist. Basically I was told that before any written material a "language" was anyway a person communicated. There was no structure or grammer in the first languages. It was spoken. Same thing with many of the African languages. So I argued back and said patois is based on English. That did not hold water either as many languages are "derived" from others and share the same words.

I was still a little skeptical of calling patois a language but stopped calling it a "dialect". That has changed since I started reading the children stories in patois and posting them online. I have not met and communicated with descendants of Jamaicans who live in Panama, Costa Rica, Honduras and Nicaragua who know patois as a separate language. What was even more shocking was them telling me that some people speak patois but do not know English. I know that is hard to believe but I have gotten confirmation that it is true. Every word is patois to them. I am considering doing an article on this for the site as I am still doing some more research.

Bottomline for me now is that Jamaican Patois is a language.

PS: I never thought the day would come when I would be saying this. </div></div>My reaction is not eve whethe ror not itis a language. What I am adamant about is that it should not be put on equal footing with English in schools.Or in the future we will have a large percentage of Jamaicans who know patois <span style="font-weight: bold">but can't understand English</span> Yes it is possible .

**Sinco01** · 07-04-2009, 06:35 PM

Re: Patwa fainali av wan raitin sistim.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr.Dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: britisha</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr.Dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Originally posted by Iron_Man

UWI has been working on making a standard Jamaican Creole writing system and it's finally done!
Dem av werk buk dem an vidyo dem fi tiich di nuu sitim, an dem a chrai fi tiich it ina di skuul dem fi promuot praid fi Jamieka mada tong.

So here is this music video that they made to promote it:

</div></div>You mean they spend money on that?
What about something that could help more Jamaican kids to communicate in english?

</div></div>

Do you really know what you are saying? How about something that could help YOU to communicate in <span style="font-weight: bold">English?</span>\<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
So what we are going t do wit hit?</div></div>

Translator!!<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
talk to each other better?
That is what I call a headless chicken.</div></div>

do you ramble just for the sake of rambling, Dudd?<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
just because some organization that has no interest in what is good for Jamaica gave them some money they jump and waste taxpayers facilities to produce a useless or damaging product.</div></div>

<span style="font-weight: bold">See what *I* mean? You come aawn here, and try to act as if you are so pro-Jamaica, but it is clearly evident that you are not...what is so "damaging" and "useless" about promoting patois as our native dialect</span>? What? Are you ashamed of your roots? <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> They have been trying every strategy to sideline Jamaicans like they did with the Haitians who's language is only spoken in their country. I suppose in a few decades Jamaican s will be like Haitians who's education is limited to texts written in a language that has very little knowledge recorded in it. </div></div>

It would behoove you to type err crabtoe in patois, at least you could hide behind it...the word is "whose" not "who's" the possessive case.

Now, heeeeere you go again, talking about Haitians and Haitians and Creole.

What do YOU know?

This is a message board that is read by thousands of intelligent people, even if they don't post...where do you "cum up" with all this nonsense?

Are you aware that many Haitians who are/were educated in Haiti speak not only Creole, but Spanish, French and English...yes, the very same English that you are having such a difficult time with? Do you know that?

Even if you are "interfacing" with the poorer/poorest class of Haitians who might be illiterate, you cannot use that experience to fool yourself that you know that much about their country to generalise in the manner that you do now, and have done in the past..

.. and yes, while they have texts in Creole; what is wrong with that?..and what would be wrong if the Bible is written in patois? would you have a problem with that as well?

You need to take a trip to the Sorbonne, France and see how many Haitians are studying there. [in French, not Creole].

Stop taking potshots at Haiti, only <span style="font-weight: bold">racists</span> do that..or should do that ...I am beginning to wonder if you are truly a BLACK Jamaican, or even a Jamaican at all..to start with. <span style="font-weight: bold">You sound like the slave masters who looked down on Jamaicans who spoke patois,</span> who didn't learn the Queeeeeen's "English.." see it as a sign of ignorance rather than a sign of the "legacy" of slavery; and since you speak nor write either, the joke is on you..

Again, this is what I mean, the chest beaters who come aawn here and say how pro-black and anti-white they are, <span style="font-weight: bold">HOW COMMITTED THEY ARE TO THE STRUGGLE AND THE CAUSE</span>.. still yet, they are the worst ambassadors for their race, just based on the cruel statements they make here about those who are most unfortunate.

and fyi, Creole is not spoken only in Haiti, juss to show HOW MUCH YOU do NOT know!!
<span style="font-weight: bold">
</span><span style="font-weight: bold">Laawd, tek disyah case.
</span>

Yuh si yuh?

</div></div> <span style="font-size: 20pt"> One of these days you will find a way to come on here naked just toget attention. Ifeveryone could be so cruel enough to simply ingore you
Since you will do anything to gain attention
I remember your first post on this board. It was a complaint that Gleaner story was posted without giving credit to the gleaner. You have not change your modus operandi, even on your miost recent return. Still doing whatever it takes to get center stage. <span style="color: #FF0000">(((Lights ))) </span>Enter Britisha!!! OK enough now!!!you got it we recognize you </span>

como'n Doc ..
address the issue ..
not the person ..

lawd ..
i'll tek de pillow ..

**Dr.Dudd** · 07-04-2009, 06:36 PM

Re: Patwa fainali av wan raitin sistim.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Iron_Man</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr.Dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Iron_Man</div><div class="ubbcode-body">[quote=Dr.Dudd][quote=missus_vegas]i didnt say dem fi stop teach english...and maybe me stupid but i didnte get eh idea that the video is saying dont teach enlish eidda </div></div> That is the plan as soon as it become the official language.

The next step is to make up statistics to prove that children learn better in it.
Then the children have to be educated in it.
The courts legal documents and business will be conducted in it.
English will be taught as a foreign language That is what the UWI program that was paid for by the Swiss organization goal is and being introduced to nutralize the effect of Jamaicans on world affairs.
remember Jamaica has always been at th efore front of demanding human rights in Africa. While China is trying to get every student to lesarn english, Jamaica is trying to waste money on trying toget theirs tolesrn a language that no advance information is recotded it. </div></div><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Jamaica would never REPLACE English with Jamaican Creole! That's just ridiculous! You are getting INCREDIBLY FAR FETCHED... but I'm not surprised... just about all of your posts go waaaay beyond reality. </div></div> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yes you reality is all about past My reality i sto project and prepare for the future. What percentage of Jamaican children in primary school speak and understand fluent English?
If they are being taught in the language and it is so low, what will happen when they have the option of learning in patois?
have you ever hear if the theory that states that the bad will always force out the good, if they are given equal footing?
Well it is proven universally to be so. People will always gravitate to the easiest way. the easiest way will be to teach and learn in patois. and one you get down that road you will not be able to return. </div></div>

You don't seem to understand. The point of this initiative is NOT to replace teaching in English with teaching in Jamaican Creole. The point is to have either one class a day or a couple classes a week where there is poetry in Jamaican Creole, proverbs in Jamaican Creole, learning about the bases of Jamaican Creole (English, West African dialects, Spanish, French, Hindi, etc), ETC.

So to reiterate the point: They DO NOT PLAN TO REPLACE TEACHING IN ENGLISH WITH TEACHING IN PATWA. </div></div> Th e[rpblem is that it is the goal of the project that decided to replace english with patois not only on Jamaica but they are starting with Jamaica.

**RcOmK** · 07-04-2009, 06:38 PM

Re: Patwa fainali av wan raitin sistim.

THAT IS NOT THE GOAL!
WHY DON'T YOU LOOK IT UP AND STOP WRITING RUBBISH?!

**Dr.Dudd** · 07-04-2009, 06:40 PM

Re: Patwa fainali av wan raitin sistim.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sinco01</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
como'n Doc ..
address the issue ..
not the person ..

lawd ..
i'llll tek de pillow .. </div></div>
You can answer as you wish, but I was taught that
irrespective of how good an object is, if it was presented with disrespect it is not worth my response.
I believe this to this day.
I am exercising my right to chose to address who and what I wish as long as I have the opportunity to do so. Good food should be presented in clean vessels too.

**Boricua_papi** · 07-04-2009, 06:58 PM

Re: Patwa fainali av wan raitin sistim.

I am just an outsider who is not J'can, has no J'can roots, and isn't even been to JA but finds the culture fascinating with its contradictions, its arts, and its women. Regardless, I do think that the boundary between what can be considered a language and what cannot be considered a language is up to interpretation and a weak consensus, at best, is probably the most anyone could ever expect on this issue. Creole (hybrid) languages are amalgams incorporating grammar and vocabulary from more than one source. Taken to the extreme, even the Queen's English is a creole language as it incorporates elements of Old French, germanic languages, and loan words from places as diverse as Greece, Japan, and Nigeria. If proper English is classified as a language then Patois must be a language as well despite it's close ties with proper English.

Regarding the issue of whether it should be taught in schools as part of a formalized curriculum? I am not so sure. The essentials of living in an increasingly technologically savvy world must take precedence. Mathematics, proper English, the sciences, computer skills, health, financial responsibility, and civics must be addressed first. However, if the teaching of patois may be offered as an elective once the core educational requirements are met then I see nothing wrong with this.

**Dr.Dudd** · 07-04-2009, 07:10 PM

Re: Patwa fainali av wan raitin sistim.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Iron_Man</div><div class="ubbcode-body">THAT IS NOT THE GOAL!
WHY DON'T YOU LOOK IT UP AND STOP WRITING RUBBISH?! </div></div> Thuis subject have been discussed her years ago and was followed by whole poeces ibthe gleaner after. Why don't you research it? .
quote <span style="font-style: italic">Jamaican Creole vs English – Not an Either/Or Debate

By Guest Writer
Published: November 26, 2008
I am flattered by (Antonn Brown’s) comparison to Kadene, and I wish that I had her multilingual skills, cosmopolitan erudition, and analytical sharpness. Rest assured, however, that I am no sock puppet for Ms. Porter. Now let me address your riposte.

Languages are the products of human agency; they do what we allow them to do, so it is entirely possible for Jamaican scientists working with linguists and translators to translate complex scientific concepts into Jamaican Creole. I am not a scientist nor a translator, so I am not going to fall into the trap of trying to produce a JC translation of the general principle of relativity or the laws of thermodynamics. The non-existence of JC versions of these laws simply attests to the exclusion of JC as a medium of academic discourse, rather than to JC’s inability to articulate scientific concepts. The same applies to legal principles.

<span style="font-weight: bold">Modern scientific and legal discourses are specialized registers that have evolved within particular educational, institutional, professional, and social frameworks that privilege standard languages. Even highly educated lay persons find it difficult to understand the letter if not the spirit of the law, but difficulty of comprehension is often due to the professional jargon rather than actual conceptual difficulty.

Concepts can be unpacked and translated into other languages, but JC with its history of exclusion from academia and the formal discourses of law, etc. will possess a smaller lexical repertoire to designate concepts. This is where the point about borrowing comes in, not as a rhetorical red herring, but rather to indicate the tactics and strategies available to marginalized forms of expression like JC. I notice that you haven’t laid out “the ostensible evidence” which “belies” my claim that JC participates in this universal practice of lexical borrowing, but I will certainly address the evidence when you do so.</span>

Citing sources is actually the easy part where this is concerned. See the following reading list for the study of creole languages in general and Jamaican Creole in particular. Peter Roberts does a rather good job of explaining the histories of the language continuum and language politics in the Caribbean, and Pauline Christie addresses all of the issues that have been raised in this forum and others about the role of Jamaican Creole in formal education. Velma Pollard sketches a pedagogical strategy for using JC to teach Standard English. You will note that these scholars subscribe to the same definitions of JC as a language, and they also provide reams of evidence based on empirical research.

Dell Hymes, Pidginization and Creolization of Languages (Cambridge UP, 1971)
John Holm, Pidgins and Creoles. 2Vols. (Cambridge University Press, 1988 &1989)
Peter Roberts, West Indians and their Language (Cambridge UP, 1988)
Peter Roberts, From Oral to Literate Culture (UWI Press, 1997)
Pauline Christie, Language in Jamaica (Arawak Press, 2003)
Pauline Christie, ed. Caribbean Language Issues, Old and New (UWI Press, 1996)
Velma Pollard, Dread Talk: The Language of Rastafari (1980, rpt. UWI Press,1994)
Velma Pollard, From Jamaican Creole to Standard English: A Handbook for Teachers (1993, rpt. UWI Press, 2003).
</span>

**f0rTyLeGz** · 07-04-2009, 07:16 PM

Re: Patwa fainali av wan raitin sistim.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Iron_Man</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
p.s. it's not a dialect either. A dialect would be like a New Yorker accent vs. A southern accent or and Australian accent vs. a South African accent. In fact, Patwa, itself, has dialects: Bajan Creole, Bahamian Creole, Sierra Leone Krio, Belizean Kriol., etc. </div></div>
I figured this would end up a screaming match with name calling and rude associations hurled on those who don't believe patois needs to be taught. It's a nationalistic thing. A respect thing imho. Patois isn't going to go away. It will only get better. I would rather young students have a few hours a week learning Mandarin or Farsi than correct spelling and writing in Jamaican patois.

I have no problem calling Jamaican patois a language if that is how linguists want to define it. Although I do find it amazing that there are patois speakers that can't understand English.

**RcOmK** · 07-04-2009, 07:27 PM

Re: Patwa fainali av wan raitin sistim.

I have a feeling that for some reason a lot of people feel that learning how to write in Jamaican Creole will be incredibly difficult, when the truth is, if you can already speak Jamaican Creole and you follow the writing system, it's very easy.

Watch the video and look at the examples they have with the alphabet. The rules are simple:
<ul style="list-style-type: disc"><ul style="list-style-type: disc">[*]Learn the simple alphabet[*]There is no "C" and "Q"[*]There are no silent letters[*]Each letter has a sound[/list][*]

<span style="color: #006600">How difficult would it be to teach this? Please give Jamaicans more credit than that. </span> [/list]

Patwa fainali av wan raitin sistim.

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

ads