Patwa fainali av wan raitin sistim.

[RcOmK]

Re: Patwa fainali av wan raitin sistim.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: f0rTyLeGz</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Iron_Man</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
p.s. it's not a dialect either. A dialect would be like a New Yorker accent vs. A southern accent or and Australian accent vs. a South African accent. In fact, Patwa, itself, has dialects: Bajan Creole, Bahamian Creole, Sierra Leone Krio, Belizean Kriol., etc. </div></div>
I figured this would end up a screaming match with name calling and rude associations hurled on those who don't believe patois needs to be taught. It's a nationalistic thing. A respect thing imho. Patois isn't going to go away. It will only get better. I would rather young students have a few hours a week learning Mandarin or Farsi than correct spelling and writing in Jamaican patois.

I have no problem calling Jamaican patois a language if that is how linguists want to define it. Although I do find it amazing that there are patois speakers that can't understand English. </div></div>

So why couldn't they learn how to write in Jamaican Creole <span style="color: #660000">AND </span>learn Mandarin, or Spanish, or French or w/e? In fact, learning the writing system of Patois and understanding it's bases (which include, but is not limited to, the three languages I mentioned above) would help them to learn more useful languages more easily.

I can speak from personal experiences when i say that knowing Patois has DEFINITELY helped me in learning foreign languages.

[Dr.Dudd]

Re: Patwa fainali av wan raitin sistim.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Iron_Man</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have a feeling that for some reason a lot of people feel that learning how to write in Jamaican Creole will be incredibly difficult, when the truth is, if you can already speak Jamaican Creole and you follow the writing system, it's very easy.

Watch the video and look at the examples they have with the alphabet. The rules are simple:
<ul style="list-style-type: disc"><ul style="list-style-type: disc">[*]Learn the simple alphabet[*]There is no &quot;C&quot; and &quot;Q&quot;[*]There are no silent letters[*]Each letter has a sound[/list][*]

<span style="color: #006600">How difficult would it be to teach this? Please give Jamaicans more credit than that. </span> </div></div> Well if English is standardized. At least Jamaica chose to use british English. If it is standardized and the achievement level is so low,with the immersion in school , media etc. what would we expect from a language that you can't even use it to go in the Internet??
right now you can get English tutors on line from as far away as India. where will the kids get extra scholastic support if they need it? Can the country afford the industry that will be needed to create supporting literature to make this possible?
And what will be the benefit? will it make Jamaicans world leaders or assist them in attempting to be such?[/list]

[RcOmK]

Re: Patwa fainali av wan raitin sistim.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr.Dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Iron_Man</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have a feeling that for some reason a lot of people feel that learning how to write in Jamaican Creole will be incredibly difficult, when the truth is, if you can already speak Jamaican Creole and you follow the writing system, it's very easy.

Watch the video and look at the examples they have with the alphabet. The rules are simple:
<ul style="list-style-type: disc"><ul style="list-style-type: disc">[*]Learn the simple alphabet[*]There is no &quot;C&quot; and &quot;Q&quot;[*]There are no silent letters[*]Each letter has a sound[/list][*]

<span style="color: #006600">How difficult would it be to teach this? Please give Jamaicans more credit than that. </span> </div></div> Well if English is standardized. At least Jamaica chose to use british English. If it is standardized and the achievement level is so low,with the immersion in school , media etc. what would we expect from a language that you can't even use it to go in the Internet??
right now you can get English tutors on line from as far away as India. where will the kids get extra scholastic support if they need it? Can the country afford the industry that will be needed to create supporting literature to make this possible?
And what will be the benefit? will it make Jamaicans world leaders or assist them in attempting to be such? </div></div>



Read my last post

And what is with you and the interent? The kids will still know English. Damn...

patoisphobic much? [/list]

[Dr.Dudd]

Re: Patwa fainali av wan raitin sistim.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Iron_Man</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr.Dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Iron_Man</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have a feeling that for some reason a lot of people feel that learning how to write in Jamaican Creole will be incredibly difficult, when the truth is, if you can already speak Jamaican Creole and you follow the writing system, it's very easy.

Watch the video and look at the examples they have with the alphabet. The rules are simple:
<ul style="list-style-type: disc"><ul style="list-style-type: disc">[*]Learn the simple alphabet[*]There is no &quot;C&quot; and &quot;Q&quot;[*]There are no silent letters[*]Each letter has a sound[/list][*]

<span style="color: #006600">How difficult would it be to teach this? Please give Jamaicans more credit than that. </span> </div></div> Well if English is standardized. At least Jamaica chose to use british English. If it is standardized and the achievement level is so low,with the immersion in school , media etc. what would we expect from a language that you can't even use it to go in the Internet??
right now you can get English tutors on line from as far away as India. where will the kids get extra scholastic support if they need it? Can the country afford the industry that will be needed to create supporting literature to make this possible?
And what will be the benefit? will it make Jamaicans world leaders or assist them in attempting to be such? </div></div>



Read my last post

And what is with you and the interent? The kids will still know English. Damn...

patoisphobic much? </div></div> I have nothing against teaching it at higher levels up the education ladder, but it should be taught after some other useful foreign language. After all in high school I had to learn Latin before i could do modern language. And it served me well. What I don't want o see is the substituting of patois instead of english or to teach in both language at an early age.
the problem Jamaican have wit English grammar presently i is due to the intermixing of patois with English grammatical rules.
well can you imagine how much that will be multiplied, with the active use of both languages in school?
My children went to Montessori school in kindergarten.
They teach in English and Spanish and the kids had difficulty with vocabulary due to mixing of languages for a while. and that was only at grammar school,with very smart kids.


And about me and th internet?/ I see whatit has dione to haitians. th emajoroty who can read still cvan't use th einternet, because it is not in creole. even if th eoages are in creole, you hav eto navigate in english to get to the pages.[/list]

[Stormmey]

Re: Patwa fainali av wan raitin sistim.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: britisha</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Stormmey1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">britisha

</div></div>

Stormey, mi chile, how yuh duh?

His high toime wi call a spade a spade, and deal widd di rubbish. Reading some a dem sinting aawn yah mek mi COGNISIZE seh it wi mek ppl tink seh Jamaicans foo fool. </div></div>

britisha am doing fine and anyone that think jamaicans are foo fool is them foo fool. The general concencus on here is that I am foo fool but dang!! send the fool a little further. My motto is each one teach one and Lady you are one of the boardites that have taught me a lot learned a lot from your posts

On ja.com and other boards you have the intellect, the <span style="font-weight: bold">seemingly bubble head</span>the joker and.....the ones that <span style="font-weight: bold">act like they are intellectual</span> watch dem....a dedding

[RcOmK]

Re: Patwa fainali av wan raitin sistim.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr.Dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
the problem Jamaican have wit English grammar presently i is due to the intermixing of patois with English grammatical rules.
well can you imagine how much that will be multiplied, with the active use of both languages in school?
</div></div>

That is one of the main reasons UWI has decided to do this. The &quot;intermixing of patois with English grammatical rules&quot; that you speak of is called the <span style="color: #660000">Mesolect</span> in linguistic terms.

Teaching children ENGLISH and the JAMAICAN CREOLE writing system at an early age will, allow children to distinguish between the two languages so that there is no mixing between the two.

Hence teaching the writing system will <span style="color: #660000">help children with English</span> (as well as foreign languages like I mentioned previously).

As for your example with your kids starting to learn Spanish at an early age and having their grammar getting mixed up , that is a very rare case... in fact i have never heard of that. It is a long established fact that learning a language as a child is the best way.

[Dr.Dudd]

Re: Patwa fainali av wan raitin sistim.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Iron_Man</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr.Dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
the problem Jamaican have wit English grammar presently i is due to the intermixing of patois with English grammatical rules.
well can you imagine how much that will be multiplied, with the active use of both languages in school?
</div></div>

That is one of the main reasons UWI has decided to do this. The &quot;intermixing of patois with English grammatical rules&quot; that you speak of is called the <span style="color: #660000">Mesolect</span> in linguistic terms.

Teaching children ENGLISH and the JAMAICAN CREOLE writing system at an early age will, allow children to distinguish between the two languages so that there is no mixing between the two.

Hence teaching the writing system will <span style="color: #660000">help children with English</span> (as well as foreign languages like I mentioned previously).

As for your example with your kids starting to learn Spanish at an early age and having their grammar getting mixed up , that is a very rare case... in fact i have never heard of that. It is a long established fact that learning a language as a child is the best way. </div></div> It is a rare case?? you seem to be unconnected with bikingual society, because it is as common in youn spanish speaking childrenas it ther are children. My children a re english speakers primatily, but the same phenomenonm is common in spanish speaking kindergarten children. So ther goes your theory.

[julie*mango]

Re: Patwa fainali av wan raitin sistim.

1. Jamaican creole is a language.
2. There are actually structures (although loose and free forming) in the language.
3. We have different dialects of the language. Try visiting Saint Elizabeth.
4. This is still something that needs to be thoroughly researched as grammatical &quot;rules&quot; are constantly changing.
5. I don't believe this should be a publicly funded effort as it is of no direct benefit to just anyone who is not a scholar.

[Dyoll_73]

Re: Patwa fainali av wan raitin sistim.

There are a number of factors put together that explain the problems with which Jamaica finds itself.

Will the CXC and Advance Placement Exams be written in patois as well?

[RcOmK]

Re: Patwa fainali av wan raitin sistim.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr.Dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Iron_Man</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr.Dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
the problem Jamaican have wit English grammar presently i is due to the intermixing of patois with English grammatical rules.
well can you imagine how much that will be multiplied, with the active use of both languages in school?
</div></div>

That is one of the main reasons UWI has decided to do this. The &quot;intermixing of patois with English grammatical rules&quot; that you speak of is called the <span style="color: #660000">Mesolect</span> in linguistic terms.

Teaching children ENGLISH and the JAMAICAN CREOLE writing system at an early age will, allow children to distinguish between the two languages so that there is no mixing between the two.

Hence teaching the writing system will <span style="color: #660000">help children with English</span> (as well as foreign languages like I mentioned previously).

As for your example with your kids starting to learn Spanish at an early age and having their grammar getting mixed up , that is a very rare case... in fact i have never heard of that. It is a long established fact that learning a language as a child is the best way. </div></div> It is a rare case?? you seem to be unconnected with bikingual society, because it is as common in youn spanish speaking childrenas it ther are children. My children a re english speakers primatily, but the same phenomenonm is common in spanish speaking kindergarten children. So ther goes your theory. </div></div>


LMAO You make no sense.

LOL! I'm disconnected with &quot;bilingual society&quot;???? Not only am I connected to &quot;bilingual society&quot; , I am proud polyglot ... doubtful that you can say the same; someone who was connected, as you put it, wouldn't be spurting the rubbish you have been.

And what theory???? LOL

[Dr.Dudd]

Re: Patwa fainali av wan raitin sistim.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Iron_Man</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr.Dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Iron_Man</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

the problem Jamaican have wit English grammar presently i is due to the intermixing of patois with English grammatical rules.
well can you imagine how much that will be multiplied, with the active use of both languages in school?
</div></div>

That is one of the main reasons UWI has decided to do this. The &quot;intermixing of patois with English grammatical rules&quot; that you speak of is called the <span style="color: #660000">Mesolect</span> in linguistic terms.

Teaching children ENGLISH and the JAMAICAN CREOLE writing system at an early age will, allow children to distinguish between the two languages so that there is no mixing between the two.

Hence teaching the writing system will <span style="color: #660000">help children with English</span> (as well as foreign languages like I mentioned previously).

As for your example with your kids starting to learn Spanish at an early age and having their grammar getting mixed up , that is a very rare case... in fact i have never heard of that. It is a long established fact that learning a language as a child is the best way. </div></div> It is a rare case?? you seem to be unconnected with bikingual society, because it is as common in youn spanish speaking childrenas it ther are children. My children a re english speakers primatily, but the same phenomenonm is common in spanish speaking kindergarten children. So ther goes your theory. </div></div>


LMAO You make no sense.

LOL! I'm disconnected with &quot;bilingual society&quot;???? Not only am I connected to &quot;bilingual society&quot; , I am proud polyglot ... doubtful that you can say the same; someone who was connected, as you put it, wouldn't be spurting the rubbish you have been.

And what theory???? LOL

That is one one and the same.Sir, there are lots of situations where although my patients are the ones living in their homes it take conscious observation by one far put from it, but well immersed in the situation to point out relationship to incidenbces they face on a daily basis.
For instance in college i was much netter at Spanish grammar,than the bilingual spanish speakers. reason was they never studied it in school. some couldn't even read Spanish.
Do you know what Spanglish is and how it came about?

[Dr.Dudd]

Re: Patwa fainali av wan raitin sistim.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: _______</div><div class="ubbcode-body">1. Jamaican creole is a language.
2. There are actually structures (although loose and free forming) in the language.
3. We have different dialects of the language. Try visiting Saint Elizabeth.
4. This is still something that needs to be thoroughly researched as grammatical &quot;rules&quot; are constantly changing.
5. I don't believe this should be a publicly funded effort as it is of no direct benefit to just anyone who is not a scholar. </div></div> They can study it to the enth as far as I am concerned, though i would rather that irrespective of the source of funding, I would rather seen it put to more constructive use, But at least it is not my money and it may still create at least one more job and feed one more family. si it would be of some benefit.
As long as it is not used to make it official or co-official language of the country.
since that usually result in the easy pushing out the difficult. And the kids and the teachers will gravitate towards Patois.
They we will start turning out graduates from high schools that can't even work as a telephone operator since they won't be able to take foreign calls.
That would further justify the exclusion of Jamaicans from industry since it will require a lot of foreign communication.
Then ther will be high school graduates that can't even work as tour guides unless they do language studies so as to get a job in the tourist industry.
I suppose they would probably split the country in 2 like Haiti and Dominican Republic or St Martin and ST Maarten. having each side speaking the different languages. I think that Jamaica should spoend every dimetowards catching up on the functions to keep ot going like improving that which it has before doing what is not being dome by developed countries, whi hav ethe extra funds to do it .

[RcOmK]

Re: Patwa fainali av wan raitin sistim.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr.Dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: _______</div><div class="ubbcode-body">1. Jamaican creole is a language.
2. There are actually structures (although loose and free forming) in the language.
3. We have different dialects of the language. Try visiting Saint Elizabeth.
4. This is still something that needs to be thoroughly researched as grammatical &quot;rules&quot; are constantly changing.
5. I don't believe this should be a publicly funded effort as it is of no direct benefit to just anyone who is not a scholar. </div></div> They can study it to the enth as far as I am concerned, though i would rather that irrespective of the source of funding, I would rather seen it put to more constructive use, But at least it is not my money and it may still create at least one more job and feed one more family. si it would be of some benefit.
As long as it is not used to make it official or co-official language of the country.
since that usually result in the easy pushing out the difficult. And the kids and the teachers will gravitate towards Patois.
They we will start turning out graduates from high schools that can't even work as a telephone operator since they won't be able to take foreign calls.
That would further justify the exclusion of Jamaicans from industry since it will require a lot of foreign communication.
Then ther will be high school graduates that can't even work as tour guides unless they do language studies so as to get a job in the tourist industry.
I suppose they would probably split the country in 2 like Haiti and Dominican Republic or St Martin and ST Maarten. having each side speaking the different languages. </div></div>

That would not happen in Jamaica. They know that English is important and they would never REPLACE it with Patwa. Jamaica would not collapse into the ground if English and Jamaican Creole were co-official languages.

You and YOUR apocalypse theory.


PS co-official status IS inevitable.

[diabolical_Tanya]

Re: Patwa fainali av wan raitin sistim.

wonder if yu realise that the MAJORITY of Jamaicans speak and understand BOTH english and Patios, and that this is mainly about standardizing the way it is written?

yu tink those tour guides ONLY speak english

aye sah

[RcOmK]

Re: Patwa fainali av wan raitin sistim.