A proposal to sell Up Park Camp

**Tuff Gong** · 07-13-2009, 06:37 PM

Re: A proposal to sell Up Park Camp

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: xKs</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The most sensical agrument put forward so far is its location serving as a buffer between east/west/nort and south..
Even then, its still not been a great buffer anyhow.</div></div>

If you look at all or most of the wars in the East between JLP and PNP fractions you will notice that very rarely they get JLP or PNP reinforcements from anywhere outside of where the war is. Same for West wars. I think the reason is they would have to pas Cross Roads, Rollington Town, Mobile Reserve and every other Police and the JDF Installations to get from West to East or vice versa.

Not so for the Wars in along Spanish Town Road and in St. Catharine gangs coming from every which way until the big peace treaty was called between Zeeks and the President regularly reinforced these.
Now wars in the South are still stocked with men from elsewhere but the Spanish Town Road corridor has cooled off a lot.

**evanovitch** · 07-13-2009, 06:40 PM

Re: A proposal to sell Up Park Camp

on the facenof it , true, it is ridiculous to envision an invasion but den is di said US dat wid all its might etc , still ha a hardon fi Cuba , all dese years awn plus, if we believe seh den destabilize unda Joshua n fren up wen is not him etal, well den ,y is a real invasion, di military type, so farfetched?

X · 07-13-2009, 06:43 PM

Re: A proposal to sell Up Park Camp

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jah_yout</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: xKs</div><div class="ubbcode-body">exactly..
and if we should allow ourselves to follow the "ridiculous" idea of the US of A Invading Jamaica.. I'd think a gurella army, out in rural geographic areas would stand a better chance against a large overwhelmiong force, that one sitting smak dab in the middle of the city..
Once again, just saying, cause the whole invasion agrument is kinda ridiculous..
But..
Wasnt too ridiculous for the Canadians..
Anyone ever wonder why this blah little isolated, non idustrious, no claim to fame city called Ottawa is the Capital of Canada and NOT say Toronto nor Montreal? </div></div>

yes but you are assuming that america is the only country that w/could possibly invade...you are also assuming that 20 years from now the global geo-political landscape will be exactly as it is right now;
our neighbors cuba & hispanola have been invaded...why do we think it's so impossible for us?
yes this is a big hypothetical argument, but i gotta throw it out there...are we really a sovereign nation if we are totally at the mercy of a stronger power?
i actually the think the civillian army thing not a bad idea in the right tiime & context as obviously the jdf not a legitimate force as far as armies go... </div></div>

my bad for trying to hold a sensible conversation.
You are assuming that you know the extent of my assumptions .. get mi?

what i'll assume is you are not a millitary strategist..

**uswe** · 07-13-2009, 06:46 PM

Re: A proposal to sell Up Park Camp

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Humano</div><div class="ubbcode-body">In the past, on this very forum, I've argued that every role the JDF currently serves could be assumed by other branches of law enforcement and certain statutory bodies. But the 'nostalgists' for lack of a better word, and the so-called realists offered up rationales which mainly went along the lines of keeping some secondary line of defense. I'm sure if Bahamas attacked up, we would kick their butts, not to mention those Bajans.

<span style="font-weight: bold">Until such time that the JDF as a body is dissolved</span>, I'm for relocating it. </div></div>

So what would suggest as an alternative? A Carbinieri type para military force?

**jah_yout** · 07-13-2009, 06:52 PM

Re: A proposal to sell Up Park Camp

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: xKs</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jah_yout</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: xKs</div><div class="ubbcode-body">exactly..
and if we should allow ourselves to follow the "ridiculous" idea of the US of A Invading Jamaica.. I'd think a gurella army, out in rural geographic areas would stand a better chance against a large overwhelmiong force, that one sitting smak dab in the middle of the city..
Once again, just saying, cause the whole invasion agrument is kinda ridiculous..
But..
Wasnt too ridiculous for the Canadians..
Anyone ever wonder why this blah little isolated, non idustrious, no claim to fame city called Ottawa is the Capital of Canada and NOT say Toronto nor Montreal? </div></div>

yes but you are assuming that america is the only country that w/could possibly invade...you are also assuming that 20 years from now the global geo-political landscape will be exactly as it is right now;
our neighbors cuba & hispanola have been invaded...why do we think it's so impossible for us?
yes this is a big hypothetical argument, but i gotta throw it out there...are we really a sovereign nation if we are totally at the mercy of a stronger power?
i actually the think the civillian army thing not a bad idea in the right tiime & context as obviously the jdf not a legitimate force as far as armies go... </div></div>

my bad for trying to hold a sensible conversation.
You are assuming that you know what I'm assumine .. get mi?

what i'll assume is you are not a millitary strategist..

</div></div>

my bad for thinking we were still holding one- i apologize for you being so much more sensible than me- plz forgive me...but wait are you not the one who has only mentioned america on the topic of invasion?
what does being a military strategist have to do with it?
you say that someone must be smoking to suggest that jamaica could ever defend itself against an american invasion---what would this world be if cuba & vietnam & ethiopia & japan or any other number of small nations that were invaded by a military power had held the same attitude?

**jah_yout** · 07-13-2009, 06:58 PM

Re: A proposal to sell Up Park Camp

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: uswe</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Humano</div><div class="ubbcode-body">In the past, on this very forum, I've argued that every role the JDF currently serves could be assumed by other branches of law enforcement and certain statutory bodies. But the 'nostalgists' for lack of a better word, and the so-called realists offered up rationales which mainly went along the lines of keeping some secondary line of defense. I'm sure if Bahamas attacked up, we would kick their butts, not to mention those Bajans.

<span style="font-weight: bold">Until such time that the JDF as a body is dissolved</span>, I'm for relocating it. </div></div>

So what would suggest as an alternative? A Carbinieri type para military force? </div></div>

i actually think this below is a good idea in the right time:

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tuff Gong</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
In my opinion if we are so concerned with possibility of an invasion by outside forces we should immediately abolish the boutique JDF and <span style="font-weight: bold">require all Jamaican Citizens to undergo two years of military training and form Citizen Civil Defense Units in every contiguous neighbourhood</span>. </div></div>

X · 07-13-2009, 07:13 PM

Re: A proposal to sell Up Park Camp

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jah_yout</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: xKs</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jah_yout</div><div class="ubbcode-body">[quote=xKs]exactly..
and if we should allow ourselves to follow the "ridiculous" idea of the US of A Invading Jamaica.. I'd think a gurella army, out in rural geographic areas would stand a better chance against a large overwhelmiong force, that one sitting smak dab in the middle of the city..
Once again, just saying, cause the whole invasion agrument is kinda ridiculous..
But..
Wasnt too ridiculous for the Canadians..
Anyone ever wonder why this blah little isolated, non idustrious, no claim to fame city called Ottawa is the Capital of Canada and NOT say Toronto nor Montreal? </div></div>

yes but you are assuming that america is the only country that w/could possibly invade...you are also assuming that 20 years from now the global geo-political landscape will be exactly as it is right now;
our neighbors cuba & hispanola have been invaded...why do we think it's so impossible for us?
yes this is a big hypothetical argument, but i gotta throw it out there...are we really a sovereign nation if we are totally at the mercy of a stronger power?
i actually the think the civillian army thing not a bad idea in the right tiime & context as obviously the jdf not a legitimate force as far as armies go... </div></div>

my bad for trying to hold a sensible conversation.
You are assuming that you know what I'm assumine .. get mi?

what i'll assume is you are not a millitary strategist..

</div></div>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
my bad for thinking we were still holding one- i apologize for you being so much more sensible than me- plz forgive me...but wait are you not the one who has only mentioned america on the topic of invasion?
what does being a military strategist have to do with it?
you say that someone must be smoking to suggest that jamaica could ever defend itself against an american invasion---what would this world be if cuba & vietnam & ethiopia & japan or any other number of small nations that were invaded by a military power had held the same attitude?
</div></div>

eeeer aaah.. so what else did I say.. duh tell mi..

u may wanna consider being a ventriloquist... cause chus mi, u good nuh [censored]

**evanovitch** · 07-13-2009, 07:16 PM

Re: A proposal to sell Up Park Camp

"Now a dont know if anyone here has sufficient knowledge of JDF and its operations to speak from a point of knowledge.. we all just assuming here and chatting wi fawt based off wi limited knowlegde."

but stop... Is a given dat yaadies chat bout any n evryting based on wi limited knowledge... Dat is wat we famous fah .. We run tings etc is our mantra to prove o
how serious we r wid our right to discuss n discuss as if it being considered ad policy

**jah_yout** · 07-13-2009, 07:17 PM

Re: A proposal to sell Up Park Camp

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: xKs</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jah_yout</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: xKs</div><div class="ubbcode-body">[quote=jah_yout]

Originally posted by xKs

exactly..
and if we should allow ourselves to follow the "ridiculous" idea of the US of A Invading Jamaica.. I'd think a gurella army, out in rural geographic areas would stand a better chance against a large overwhelmiong force, that one sitting smak dab in the middle of the city..
Once again, just saying, cause the whole invasion agrument is kinda ridiculous..
But..
Wasnt too ridiculous for the Canadians..
Anyone ever wonder why this blah little isolated, non idustrious, no claim to fame city called Ottawa is the Capital of Canada and NOT say Toronto nor Montreal? </div></div>

yes but you are assuming that america is the only country that w/could possibly invade...you are also assuming that 20 years from now the global geo-political landscape will be exactly as it is right now;
our neighbors cuba & hispanola have been invaded...why do we think it's so impossible for us?
yes this is a big hypothetical argument, but i gotta throw it out there...are we really a sovereign nation if we are totally at the mercy of a stronger power?
i actually the think the civillian army thing not a bad idea in the right tiime & context as obviously the jdf not a legitimate force as far as armies go... </div></div>

my bad for trying to hold a sensible conversation.
You are assuming that you know what I'm assumine .. get mi?

what i'll assume is you are not a millitary strategist..

</div></div>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
my bad for thinking we were still holding one- i apologize for you being so much more sensible than me- plz forgive me...but wait are you not the one who has only mentioned america on the topic of invasion?
what does being a military strategist have to do with it?
you say that someone must be smoking to suggest that jamaica could ever defend itself against an american invasion---what would this world be if cuba & vietnam & ethiopia & japan or any other number of small nations that were invaded by a military power had held the same attitude?
</div></div>

eeeer aaah.. so what else did I say.. duh tell mi..

u may wanna consider being a ventriloquist... cause chus mi, u good nuh [censored]

trudat-
mi have a good dummy fi practice wid

**Tuff Gong** · 07-13-2009, 07:26 PM

Re: A proposal to sell Up Park Camp

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Humano</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm for relocating it.</div></div>

<span style="font-family: 'Arial Black'">Swallowfield will be the battlefield</span>.... not because the JDF is preventing any conflict per se. I don't think there is much appetite for political wars any more, but the instant the place is lock down a construction project is announced it is going to cause a bloodbath between fractions trying to <span style="font-family: 'Arial Black'">control the site</span>.

X · 07-13-2009, 07:27 PM

Re: A proposal to sell Up Park Camp

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jah_yout</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: xKs</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jah_yout</div><div class="ubbcode-body">[quote=xKs][quote=jah_yout][quote=xKs]exactly..
and if we should allow ourselves to follow the "ridiculous" idea of the US of A Invading Jamaica.. I'd think a gurella army, out in rural geographic areas would stand a better chance against a large overwhelmiong force, that one sitting smak dab in the middle of the city..
Once again, just saying, cause the whole invasion agrument is kinda ridiculous..
But..
Wasnt too ridiculous for the Canadians..
Anyone ever wonder why this blah little isolated, non idustrious, no claim to fame city called Ottawa is the Capital of Canada and NOT say Toronto nor Montreal? </div></div>

yes but you are assuming that america is the only country that w/could possibly invade...you are also assuming that 20 years from now the global geo-political landscape will be exactly as it is right now;
our neighbors cuba & hispanola have been invaded...why do we think it's so impossible for us?
yes this is a big hypothetical argument, but i gotta throw it out there...are we really a sovereign nation if we are totally at the mercy of a stronger power?
i actually the think the civillian army thing not a bad idea in the right tiime & context as obviously the jdf not a legitimate force as far as armies go... </div></div>

my bad for trying to hold a sensible conversation.
You are assuming that you know what I'm assumine .. get mi?

what i'll assume is you are not a millitary strategist..

</div></div>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
my bad for thinking we were still holding one- i apologize for you being so much more sensible than me- plz forgive me...but wait are you not the one who has only mentioned america on the topic of invasion?
what does being a military strategist have to do with it?
you say that someone must be smoking to suggest that jamaica could ever defend itself against an american invasion---what would this world be if cuba & vietnam & ethiopia & japan or any other number of small nations that were invaded by a military power had held the same attitude? [/qoute]
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

eeeer aaah.. so what else did I say.. duh tell mi..

u may wanna consider being a ventriloquist... cause chus mi, u good nuh [censored] </div></div>
[qoute]
trudat-
mi have a good dummy fi practice wid </div></div>

wow.. not nice, If u call u people at yuh HOME dummy, what would u call strangers?

wait.. a me u a talk ???! no way yuh coulda a propose fi shove u hands up my asss and have me talk like Triumpt the Dog.. cause dude, "a dont know u like dat"...

**Dyoll_73** · 07-13-2009, 07:27 PM

Re: A proposal to sell Up Park Camp

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: uswe</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Humano</div><div class="ubbcode-body">In the past, on this very forum, I've argued that every role the JDF currently serves could be assumed by other branches of law enforcement and certain statutory bodies. But the 'nostalgists' for lack of a better word, and the so-called realists offered up rationales which mainly went along the lines of keeping some secondary line of defense. I'm sure if Bahamas attacked up, we would kick their butts, not to mention those Bajans.

<span style="font-weight: bold">Until such time that the JDF as a body is dissolved</span>, I'm for relocating it. </div></div>

So what would suggest as an alternative? A Carbinieri type para military force? </div></div>

As I understand it, the Carbinieri is a military force which has police authority over civilian populations. I'm not sure I would be in favour of this type of arrangement.

The way I see it is this: the Coast Guard would be transferred to the Jamaica Constabulary Force where it works closely with Narcotics Division and Customs. The JDF Air Wing would be dismantled with its helicopters, other aircraft and equipment and personnel jointly utilized by the Police and the Office of Disaster Preparedness and Emergency Management (ODPEM). The Engineering Corp could easily be integrated into the ODPEM since they mainly respond to natural disasters. Some personnel from the army would go towards the Special Anti-Crime Task Force/Riot Police, and others joining the ranks of the police, or supplementing Corrections, Customs, Immigration, etc. The Military Intelligence Unit (MIU), yes, there is such a unit, could join a revamped and modernized Intelligence Bureau, or whatever name they choose to call it, that will work closely with the Revenue Services, motor vehicles, customs, registrar general dept, immigration, police, the financial services commission, and any other body that collects information, and then maintain a military unit for 'special operations', members of which would have come from the former JDF.

**jah_yout** · 07-13-2009, 07:29 PM

Re: A proposal to sell Up Park Camp

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: xKs</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jah_yout</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: xKs</div><div class="ubbcode-body">[quote=jah_yout]

Originally posted by xKs

Originally posted by jah_yout

Originally posted by xKs

exactly..
and if we should allow ourselves to follow the "ridiculous" idea of the US of A Invading Jamaica.. I'd think a gurella army, out in rural geographic areas would stand a better chance against a large overwhelmiong force, that one sitting smak dab in the middle of the city..
Once again, just saying, cause the whole invasion agrument is kinda ridiculous..
But..
Wasnt too ridiculous for the Canadians..
Anyone ever wonder why this blah little isolated, non idustrious, no claim to fame city called Ottawa is the Capital of Canada and NOT say Toronto nor Montreal? </div></div>

yes but you are assuming that america is the only country that w/could possibly invade...you are also assuming that 20 years from now the global geo-political landscape will be exactly as it is right now;
our neighbors cuba & hispanola have been invaded...why do we think it's so impossible for us?
yes this is a big hypothetical argument, but i gotta throw it out there...are we really a sovereign nation if we are totally at the mercy of a stronger power?
i actually the think the civillian army thing not a bad idea in the right tiime & context as obviously the jdf not a legitimate force as far as armies go... </div></div>

my bad for trying to hold a sensible conversation.
You are assuming that you know what I'm assumine .. get mi?

what i'll assume is you are not a millitary strategist..

</div></div>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
my bad for thinking we were still holding one- i apologize for you being so much more sensible than me- plz forgive me...but wait are you not the one who has only mentioned america on the topic of invasion?
what does being a military strategist have to do with it?
you say that someone must be smoking to suggest that jamaica could ever defend itself against an american invasion---what would this world be if cuba & vietnam & ethiopia & japan or any other number of small nations that were invaded by a military power had held the same attitude?
</div></div>

eeeer aaah.. so what else did I say.. duh tell mi..

u may wanna consider being a ventriloquist... cause chus mi, u good nuh [censored]

[qoute]
trudat-
mi have a good dummy fi practice wid

wow.. not nice, If u call u people at yuh HOME dummy, what would u call strangers?

wait.. a me u a talk ???! no way yuh coulda a propose fi shove u hands up my asss and have me talk like Triumpt the Dog.. cause dude, "a dont know u like dat

cool nuh

**Dyoll_73** · 07-13-2009, 07:36 PM

Re: A proposal to sell Up Park Camp

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tuff Gong</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Humano</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm for relocating it.</div></div>

<span style="font-family: 'Arial Black'">Swallowfield will be the battlefield</span>.... not because the JDF is preventing any conflict per se. I don't think there is much appetite for political wars any more, but the instant the place is lock down a construction project is announced it is going to cause a bloodbath between fractions trying to <span style="font-family: 'Arial Black'">control the site</span>. </div></div>

This is something an efficient Riot Police could easily handle. This can't be our best argument for keeping the JDF headquarters there.

**barosa** · 07-13-2009, 07:42 PM

Re: A proposal to sell Up Park Camp

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Humano</div><div class="ubbcode-body">In the past, on this very forum, I've argued that every role the JDF currently serves could be assumed by other branches of law enforcement and certain statutory bodies. But the 'nostalgists' for lack of a better word, and the so-called realists offered up rationales which mainly went along the lines of keeping some secondary line of defense. I'm sure if Bahamas attacked up, we would kick their butts, not to mention those Bajans.

Until such time that the JDF as a body is dissolved, I'm for relocating it. </div></div>
I find it interesting that some of us "advocates" who are for keeping the JDF where they are and has always been, are viewed as "nostalgists"(if the word exist). Jamaica has never had to defend her shores because as a member of the Empire, That job was primarily that of the British and even then, they relied on our local back up forces, known then as the "Jamaica Battalion".. With Independence, the name was changed to the JDF(Jamaica Defence Force). They have never been called upon to "defend" the island from any external adversary and thank God for that. ~ I shudder to think what would the conditions be like today, without "their auxiliary" services to the JCF during the many unrests and disturbances we have had in the past...

It's funny that you believe that if the Bahamas or Barbados messes with us, we could kick their butts. I'm wondering which of the forces available to us, we would call on to do the neccessary KICKING... The JDF needs to be equipt with modern armaments at a minimum level to sufficiently protect Jamaica and its environs... With well armed dons in political garrisons, Jamaica cannot afford to let our guard down especially in Kingston... Keep them close to the trouble "Hotspots", it's a small price to pay...
____________________________

"What counts is not necessarily the size of the dog in the fight - it's the size of the fight in the dog." - Dwight Eisenhower

A proposal to sell Up Park Camp

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