Jamaicans abroad upset at sale of Air J

[Tuff Gong]

Re: JAMAICA FOR SALE - CHEAP AND QUICK! HEART TO HEART

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: evanovitch</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style="font-weight: bold"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Let's understand this folks such as Petty Ann Blind produce zilch, they are not engineers, technicians, farmers. All she and her ilk </div></div></span>


curiously classist statement... so wat will all the hotel waiting staff produce? </div></div>

<span style="font-family: 'Arial Black'">classicist statement</span> where is the classicism?
Do you mean she is in the talking, social, champagne drinking class while pretending to care for the poor and the dispossessed right?
She and her ilk has absolutely no skills, except writing and talking.

<span style="font-family: 'Arial Black'">BTW</span> How did hotel wait staff come into this what's the angle?

[barosa]

Re: JAMAICA FOR SALE - CHEAP AND QUICK! HEART TO HEART

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RichD</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">But perhaps the greatest tragedy of the Air Jamaica story is the way in which the issue has been distilled into a brainless and esoteric debate about procedures and protocols, when in fact it ought to be a broader and more open discussion about the past, present, and future of one of Jamaica's national treasures. <span style="font-weight: bold">It is a disgrace that we are about to dispose of Air Jamaica without the transparency and vigorous examination the matter deserves. There have been no public meetings held to discuss the matter and no public cost-benefit analysis done. The government is selling the airline with most of the information hidden from the people. But who cares, when the mantra is &quot;Jamaica for Sale - cheap and quick&quot;!</span></div></div>

well summed up </div></div>
Rich, Well summed up is right! At this juncture, feelings and spirits are running high, there is tension in the air and I can feel it. What is needed is a <span style="font-weight: bold">National Catharsis</span> preceeded by a &quot;Blue Ribbon Commission of Enquiry&quot; to investigate the Financial history of AirJam, outlining the ups and downs of the business operation, the various CEO's/Managers and the periods when they were in charge... In essence, a full accounting from the inception of the Airline up to the current moment...

It's time for everything to be put on the table for all to see and know. The &quot;TaxPayers of Jamaica have a right to all information including those that are now hidden; it's time that we know who did what and when... All which were shady and not above board and to know who were/are the real culprits behind this collosal boondoggle of an operation. The initial and subsequent funding throughout the years up to the present should be known to us, also Why and How we carried such Debts and incurred so much Losses. For our collective sense of who we are and our National Psyche, it's important that we the Jamaican people demand a full enquiry and accounting of our once proud Airline...
______________________________

It's not whether we win or lose, it's HOW we play the game.

[Tuff Gong]

Re: JAMAICA FOR SALE - CHEAP AND QUICK! HEART TO HEART

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: barosa</div><div class="ubbcode-body">well summed up </div></div>
Rich, Well summed up is right! At this juncture, feelings and spirits are running high, there is tension in the air and I can feel it. What is needed is a <span style="font-weight: bold">National Catharsis</span> preceeded by a &quot;Blue Ribbon Commission of Enquiry&quot; to investigate the Financial history of AirJam[/quote]

<span style="font-family: 'Arial Black'">What purpose</span> would this serve?
Air Jamaica is not being sold primarily because it was badly managed. It is being sold because it is incurring losses out the wazoo, it has massive debts and the Jamaican economy cannot support it.

These conditions did not just come upon it overnight, they were known from the day the Airline was born, the difference is we had a better economy.

[lonewolf]

Re: JAMAICA FOR SALE - CHEAP AND QUICK! HEART TO HEART

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Air Jamaica is not being sold primarily because it was badly managed. It is being sold because it is incurring losses out the wazoo, it has massive debts and the Jamaican economy cannot support it.

These conditions did not just come upon it overnight, they were known from the day the Airline was born, the difference is we had a better economy </div></div>

Tuff, as an outsider looking in, it seems that the Government is doing the right thing. Government has a responsiblity to keep it's people free of debt and to make sure that it protects and keeps money flowing into the country, and with Jamaica that is the tourist dollar.
I believe that is why certain routes of AJ are being protected as the sale proceeds as these routes bring in the most people to fill hotels and the other AJ routes discontinued with other airlines picking up the slack without any real loss of the tourist dollar.
I'm sure if one digs deep enough they could see that this was planned and it's not just a coincidence.
Though painful it seems that was is being done is in the best interest of Jamaica. IMHO

[RichD]

Re: JAMAICA FOR SALE - CHEAP AND QUICK! HEART TO HEART

the right thing in terms of this specific deal with CAL ?or the generic right thing in terms of divesting the airline?

[Tuff Gong]

Re: JAMAICA FOR SALE - CHEAP AND QUICK! HEART TO HEART

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: lonrwolf</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Though painful it seems that was is being done is in the best interest of Jamaica. IMHO</div></div>

I think so too!
It is still a lot late.

[evanovitch]

Re: JAMAICA FOR SALE - CHEAP AND QUICK! HEART TO HEART

ur own statement implies dat if u no one of that ilk of professionalism, u not producing...classist think re lawyer, doctor, Indian chief

ergo ongle professions have merit re ability to contribute...so I mention the service industry to show dem no fit u definition but r the future of Jamaica re production as heralded by all n sundry

[evanovitch]

JALPA RELYING ON EMOTIONAL APPEAL

COLUMNS

JALPA RELYING ON EMOTIONAL APPEAL
Mark Wignall

Thursday, February 18, 2010
LIKE most Jamaicans I am saddened that the Trinidadians seem set to own another piece of us in Air Jamaica. I am peeved, not because the Trinidadians own the cement company and the Bajans are big in our insurance industry, but each time we find that we are forced to sell off another state asset, it means that we screwed up in the past and that past has resurfaced to haunt us.
A cursory examination of the cement company tells us it is close to the perfect business. The factory sits on its raw materials, it is situated on the waterfront, and demand for its products seems endless. With all of that advantage, it should never have slipped from us, but that is water under the bridge.
AIR JAMAICA... If JALPA were really serious about buying it, the association would have sent in its bid on time
1/1
All things being equal, most Jamaicans would prefer to see Air Jamaica in the hands of the pilots' association (JALPA) than under the ownership of the Trinidadian-owned Caribbean Airlines. If JALPA were really serious, it would have sent in its bid on time instead of now whining and hoping that industrial action will force the hand of the authorities to sell Air J to them.
Parochial thinking has caused emotion to get the better of us and we do not seem to understand that the motions of capital are not any more impeded by borders. In a post-recession world this is likely to increase as the dollar seeks out the most profitable berth.
Just as how successive governments, especially the previous PNP administrations, padded the civil service, Air Jamaica over many years was simply treated as another government department whose main role was to provide jobs. As a result, for the number of planes it operates, it has one of the highest ratios of staff (including pilots) to plane.
The emotion being generated in many quarters is understandable. We are parochial thinkers and most times what we seek is consensus on a policy or a position which is supported by the loudest parochial voice. As a result, we are being told that the government is &quot;wicked&quot; and heartless and that JALPA must somehow get a skip to the front of the line, even though it came in last.
There are real fears that somehow Caribbean Airlines will choose to use the newly acquired fleet of Air Jamaica's planes to bolster Trinidad's tourist industry. Well, if it should do that, Jamaica has little or no leverage in forcing its hand. At the same time, I do not believe that the Trinis are fools. Jamaica is still a viable tourist destination, and if Caribbean Airlines is in it to make money (what else?) it would be stupid to drop routes that are currently profitable.
Second, too much of the debate is making it sound as if Caribbean Airlines will be the only airline flying to and from Jamaica.
Let us look at two scenarios. Caribbean Airlines purchases Air Jamaica against the wishes of a majority of Jamaicans. Two years later it runs into a significant cash flow problem. Could it seek assistance from the Government of Jamaica? Hell, no!
The other scenario is JALPA owning Air Jamaica - that little piece of Jamaica that flies - and it runs into cash flow problems. With the acclaim that it would have received from the people of this country, what would happen should it turn to whichever government is in power? The people of this country would raise up their voices: &quot;Unnu help dem nuh man. A wi bredrin yu know.&quot;
Pretty soon, on every injection of cash or guarantees that the government would make, it would be forced to seek an equity partnership for the amount it lent the company, simply because, without that, there would be no guarantee of repayment. In maybe five years the government could find itself holding the majority shares of Air Jamaica, and the cycle of idiocy would be completed.
The world has long grown into directions that tend to &quot;respect&quot; power, might and money. Jamaica, it seems, has not yet caught up with that reality and is still into allowing the tears of emotion to wash over the harsh reality of the motions of capital.
Over the last 50-plus years it has been politics that has dictated every economic policy of note. Indeed, some would say that parochial politics has so reared its ugly head in Jamaica that it has displaced sound economic policy.
The fact is, the Golding administration has no other choice but to face up to the reality that the chickens have come home to roost. If some long-term good can come from the government's hands being forced into fiscal prudence, what we should be doing is sighing silently instead of loudly mouthing the same old argument which got us into our long-term pickle in the first place.
Granted, the government still does not have the political clout to be believed on any issue, important or no. So, it is forced to head to its objectives while many of our people are calling the prime minister's stance bullying.
When he said nothing, it was seen as poor communication. When he awoke from his seeming slumber and made his pronouncements, he was seen as a bully. What must he do? Invite the chief representatives of JALPA to Jamaica House to drink beer? Should he hold their hands and tell them that even though their bid came in long after bids were closed, because they are Jamaicans he is cancelling all other negotiations with third parties and arranging a &quot;bly&quot; for them?
What stupidity that would be. If the pilots' association were really serious about acquiring Air Jamaica, its bid would have been the first one received. To come in last then try to &quot;extort&quot; its way to the table first by its union muscle is probably OK, as the power motions go, but let us not pretend that we do not see it for what it is.
The priority is to ensure that Jamaicans who fly and tourists who wish to come to Jamaica do so with the least inconvenience. I would expect that even as the negotiations with Caribbean Airlines continue, the tourism minister would be entering into viable arrangements with other North American and European airlines to ensure that the Caribbean Airlines deal in not a bear trap for our tourism.
The bigger problem is that one is never sure whether in such agreements the real beneficiaries are the people. The skulduggery of the past ought to inform us better.
[email protected]

[evanovitch]

AN IDEA WHOSE TIME HAS COME

COLUMNS

AN IDEA WHOSE TIME HAS COME
Michael Burke

Thursday, February 18, 2010
THE Jamaican Airline Pilots Association wants to buy Air Jamaica. But if JALPA cannot, they will take the same money that they would buy Air Jamaica with and buy or lease some other airline. The idea is a very good one and should be supported whatever the outcome of their negotiations. But whatever name they chose for their airline, the word &quot;Jamaica&quot; should be in it.
I had a telephone discussion with JALPA president Captain Russell Capleton. According to Capleton, who at one stage of his student days at Jamaica College was in the same form as myself, the bid is not just to save the jobs of the pilots because pilots can get jobs. The problem is the stewardesses and the ground staff, including those who work in the office.
I have suggested to Russell Capleton that as JALPA sets up its own airline, it should become part of a co-operative that buys into the hotel industry, with the JALPA airline company flying in the tourists. In this way, the JALPA initiative would benefit a wide cross section of poor Jamaicans. It is really full time that ordinary Jamaicans own the commanding heights of the Jamaican economy. This was the view of national hero Norman Manley and also the world view of the Roman Catholic Church.
From as far back as the encyclical Mater et Magistra (Mother and Teacher, 1961) by the late Pope John XXIII (1958-63), the church has been advocating worker ownership of business enterprises. And I will never get tired of stating that the Roman Catholic Church started the credit union movement in Jamaica.
It is not surprising that Russell Capleton would be the person to push this proposal on behalf of the workers at Air Jamaica. Capleton grew up as a Roman Catholic and would go to Mass at 6 am before going to Jamaica College in the morning. His thinking is also in keeping with the nationalist spirit of his late father who was the member of parliament for Western St Mary from 1972 to 1976.
The JALPA move is an idea whose time has come. It certainly has widespread support all over the country and could become part of a ferment for change. From what I am hearing, the idea has support whether or not they were late in bidding for Air Jamaica, whether or not their interests are best served by forming a separate airline or whatever. And this whole thing ties in very well with the celebration of Black History Month.
In the 1970s, the government encouraged co-operatives within the sugar industry. For the first time in Jamaica, ordinary cane-cutters had a share in ownership of the industry. At that time Michael Manley was the prime minister. To a large extent the Roman Catholic Church was involved in the organisation of these co-operatives through Father Gerald McLaughlin and Father Joseph Owens, among others.
When the government changed in 1980 the new government crushed the sugar workers' co-operatives even though they had been efficient, according to the late Dr Carl Stone and Father Gerald McLaughlin. Was the then registrar of co-operative societies bullied into cancelling the registration of the sugar workers' co-operatives? Was he threatened with dismissal? Was this a conditionality of the International Monetary Fund? Was this a conditionality of the monied class?
Then in 1983, the government of Jamaica decided to sell the Daily News, which had been bought by the government in the 1970s when that defunct newspaper got into financial difficulties. The workers at the Daily News made a bid to buy the newspaper and form a co-operative, but the government, which between 1980 and 1989 was led by Edward Seaga as prime minister, turned down the offer and closed down the media house.
Sometime in the 1990s, Mutual Security Bank was sold to National Commercial Bank. When the invitation for bidders was made, the Mutual Security Bank Staff Association made a bid for the bank. The Staff Association president was sent on long leave while the bank was purchased by NCB.
Why the reluctance to allow workers the opportunity to own the commanding heights of the economy? The reluctance is of the same variety as the one that resisted the movement for the emancipation from physical slavery. It is of the same variety that resisted the calls for self-government and political independence. It is of the same variety as the one that resisted and turned back many moves to empower Jamaicans in the 1970s.
While JALPA is their own trade union, the trade unions in this day and age should be encouraging worker ownership everywhere. It will mean that the trade unionists will have to change their modus operandi, but the change is needed.
Yes, JALPA may have been late in their bid, but this time around no one will be able to stop JALPA from owning something, even if they form their own airline company. All co-operatives and all plans of workers to buy shares in business entities gain popularity in hard economic times like these.
[email protected]

[barosa]

Re: JAMAICA FOR SALE - CHEAP AND QUICK! HEART TO HEART

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style="font-weight: bold">What purpose would this serve?</span></div></div>
You would be surprised of the benefit of such, especially after the ordeal of not only losing their Airline but the many Billions of Dollars down the sewer. To be honest, it probably may take more than a &quot;national catharsis&quot; because of the severity of the damage...


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Air Jamaica is not being sold primarily because it was badly managed. It is being sold because it is incurring losses out the wazoo, it has massive debts and the Jamaican economy cannot support it.

These conditions did not just come upon it overnight, they were known from the day the Airline was born, the difference is we had a better economy.</div></div>

The facts above are not in dispute... <span style="font-weight: bold">It's the How, When, Why</span> that matters most at this moment when the Govt is hell bent on doing away with it on &quot;their terms&quot; without as much as recognizing &quot;the unrest&quot; about it.. ~ Even if they pretend to listen at this late hour before their planned Ghastly deed, in the final analysis, we the <span style="font-weight: bold">JAMAICAN PEOPLE</span> will hold them all, past and present as Responsible for the AirJam calamity which will never ever be forgoten...
____________________________

&quot;At a time of universal deceit,&quot; wrote George Orwell, &quot;telling the truth is a revolutionary act.&quot;

[Tuff Gong]

Re: JAMAICA FOR SALE - CHEAP AND QUICK! HEART TO HEART

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: evanovitch</div><div class="ubbcode-body">ur own statement implies dat if u no one of that ilk of professionalism, u not producing...classist think re lawyer, doctor, Indian chief

ergo ongle professions have merit re ability to contribute...so I mention the service industry to show dem no fit u definition but r the future of Jamaica re production as heralded by all n sundry

</div></div>

Let me explain what I mean because I cannot continue to let you put words into my mouth and answer them to your satisfaction.

Ms. Petty Ann and her ilk get paid to talk and write that is all they do. It does not mean they are not in the class of professionals such as doctors, lawyers, pilots, engineers, etc all it means is that they depend on folks who build, invent, plant and manufacture things to to generate revenue which will eventually go to pay them.

Since they have never put their hands to the wheel, they can very well say anything, while collecting their loot, till the whole thing come down.

<span style="font-family: 'Arial Black'">I never said one thing about Class!</span>

[evanovitch]

Re: JAMAICA FOR SALE - CHEAP AND QUICK! HEART TO HEART

On the contrary. They do intact 'put their hands to the plough', hence the term 'fourth estate'. ... No revolution r great social etc upheaval has been achieved sans their invaluable input

[Panajar]

Re: JAMAICA FOR SALE - CHEAP AND QUICK! HEART TO HEART

Mi agree dem fe sell off air JA,Everybody know that politicians and dem family tek the plane dem fe preke. every body want to fly free and get hook up.The things average Jamaicans need to be concerned about ,is the selling off of our beach front property and other prime real estate to the favored few and foreigners.Dem building wall round some of the best beaches on the island, in a matter of time average Jamaicans wont be able to access some of our beaches. We can always buy some more aircraft but Jamaica is small and once the prime real estate and beach is gone it gone.

[lonewolf]

Re: JAMAICA FOR SALE - CHEAP AND QUICK! HEART TO HEART

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RichD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">the right thing in terms of this specific deal with CAL ?or the generic right thing in terms of divesting the airline? </div></div>

Yes, the generic right thing. Governments should not be running business. Governments are not that efficient at running government. Governments are good at spending money and not making money and routinely run in the red.

Just an observation....there are to many AJ flights in the US that were dropped and then picked up by other airlines without missing a beat as it pertains to specific dates and times.
Also, the government is protecting the biggest money making flights of AJ until a deal is complete with whom ever gets AJ.....They seem to be trying to protect the economy.
Unless I'm missing something it's hard to argue with this decision making, LOL but of course if my flights are cancelled next month my emotional side may take over and I might think different.

[lonewolf]

Re: JAMAICA FOR SALE - CHEAP AND QUICK! HEART TO HEART

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Panajar</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Mi agree dem fe sell off air JA,Everybody know that politicians and dem family tek the plane dem fe preke. every body want to fly free and get hook up.The things average Jamaicans need to be concerned about ,is the selling off of our beach front property and other prime real estate to the favored few and foreigners.Dem building wall round some of the best beaches on the island, in a matter of time average Jamaicans wont be able to access some of our beaches. We can always buy some more aircraft but Jamaica is small and once the prime real estate and beach is gone it gone. </div></div>

Yes, I agree. I look at the RIU resorts and the Seacrets Resorts being built and I see CANCUN and not JAMAICA, but then again I look at the opportunity for jobs that these resorts bring and I see a &quot;Catch 22&quot;.