Arizona and it's new racist immigration "laws"

[RichD]

Re: Arizona Ethnic Studies Classes Banned, Teachers With Acc

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: lonrwolf</div><div class="ubbcode-body">


<span style="font-style: italic">Why not use the same law Mexico would use on a person who has overstayed there visit?</span>


<span style="font-weight: bold">Illegal entry into the country is equivalent to a felony punishable by two years' imprisonment. Re-entry, after deportation is punishable by ten years' imprisonment. Law enforcement officials at all levels, by national mandate, must cooperate to enforce immigration laws, including illegal alien arrests and deportations. [7]. &quot;In cases of flagrante delicto, any person may arrest the offender and his accomplices, turning them over without delay to the nearest authorities.&quot;, Article 16 of the constitution of Mexico, also known as a &quot;citizens arrest</span>


</div></div>

the problem still is how do you identify person who have overstayed or entered illegally?

[twiney]

Re: Arizona Ethnic Studies Classes Banned, Teachers With Acc

So mek mi si if mi understand this...this law is about the mexicans? Cause the support I see according to people in this tread is about illegal mexicans. This is my only point of reference so forgive my ignorance.

[lonewolf]

Re: Arizona Ethnic Studies Classes Banned, Teachers With Acc

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Prices for goods &amp; services will go up, and people of the US will complain about items costing more becoming cognizant of how much the US depends on immigrant labour.

There was a movie out a few years ago when all the hispanics disappeared except one (a female reporter who later was found to have been adopted into a hispanic family). Let me see if I can find it
ah here A day without a Mexican </div></div>


Liberal nonsense......this is about supply and demand. If there is work for migrant workers than let them follow the legal measures to enter this country for work....end of story

NOTHING IS CHEAPER because of MEXICANS working in this country.
The only person that benifets from ILLEGAL MEXICAN LABOR are the USUAL SUSPECTS and THAT IS THE RICH RULING ELITE THAT OWN COMPANIES AND EMPLOY SUCH MEXICANS ILLEGALY!

CHEAP PRICES ARE NOT PASSED ON BY COMPANIES THAT EMPLOY ILLEGALS. THE MONEY THEY SAVE THEY POCKET AND MAKE MORE PROFITS! SERVICES HAVE NOT BECOME CHEAPER BECAUSE OF MEXICAN LABOR!




IT'S TRULY THE BIGGEST BS HOAX AND MISCONCEPTION OUT THERE THAT THE AVERAGE US CITIZEN CAN'T GET ALONG WITHOUT MEXICANS!

THE AVERAGE AMERICAN CLEANS THEIR OWN HOUSE AND CUTS THIER OWN GRASS ETC. THEY CAN'T AFFORD TO USE MEXICAN LABOR! IT'S ONLY THE RICH GREEDY RULING ELITE THAT CAN AFFORD SUCH LUXURIES!

[kia027]

Re: Arizona Ethnic Studies Classes Banned, Teachers With Acc

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: lonrwolf</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Prices for goods &amp; services will go up, and people of the US will complain about items costing more becoming cognizant of how much the US depends on immigrant labour.

There was a movie out a few years ago when all the hispanics disappeared except one (a female reporter who later was found to have been adopted into a hispanic family). Let me see if I can find it
ah here A day without a Mexican </div></div>


Liberal nonsense......this is about supply and demand. If there is work for migrant workers than let them follow the legal measures to enter this country for work....end of story

NOTHING IS CHEAPER because of MEXICANS working in this country.
The only person that benifets from ILLEGAL MEXICAN LABOR are the USUAL SUSPECTS and THAT IS THE RICH RULING ELITE THAT OWN COMPANIES AND EMPLOY SUCH MEXICANS ILLEGALY!

CHEAP PRICES ARE NOT PASSED ON BY COMPANIES THAT EMPLOY ILLEGALS. THE MONEY THEY SAVE THEY POCKET AND MAKE MORE PROFITS! SERVICES HAVE NOT BECOME CHEAPER BECAUSE OF MEXICAN LABOR!




IT'S TRULY THE BIGGEST BS HOAX AND MISCONCEPTION OUT THERE THAT THE AVERAGE US CITIZEN CAN'T GET ALONG WITHOUT MEXICANS!

THE AVERAGE AMERICAN CLEANS THEIR OWN HOUSE AND CUTS THIER OWN GRASS ETC. THEY CAN'T AFFORD TO USE MEXICAN LABOR! IT'S ONLY THE RICH GREEDY RULING ELITE THAT CAN AFFORD SUCH LUXURIES! </div></div>


So the rich elite you refer to who have companies and hire illegal aliens (from whatever country) will have to hire legal workers and you dont think said employer will not try to pass the hire labour cost onto consumers of his/her product? The same way gas prices have risen due to the oil spill in LA and the reserves have not even been touched yet? Its the American Way!

[twiney]

Re: Arizona Ethnic Studies Classes Banned, Teachers With Acc

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: lonrwolf</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> If there is work for migrant workers than let them follow the legal measures to enter this country for work....end of story </div></div>

You are an American citizen by birth I take it be... to really believe it is that easy to get a work visa to go to the good ole USofA is a laugh. Not condoning illegal immigration (cause mi spend mi money and efforts to move to where I am now) but once in a while it might be a good idea to look at the other side ...

[barosa]

Re: Arizona Ethnic Studies Classes Banned, Teachers With Acc

Serinty82, Why do we have to change the Title of the TOPIC? Could you explain that for us? I thought I was on a topic when Faithful asked that we should stick to the topic. Just thought I'd ask!
__________________________

At a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act : George Orwell

[julie*mango]

Re: Arizona Ethnic Studies Classes Banned, Teachers With Acc

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RichD</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: lonrwolf</div><div class="ubbcode-body">


<span style="font-style: italic">Why not use the same law Mexico would use on a person who has overstayed there visit?</span>


<span style="font-weight: bold">Illegal entry into the country is equivalent to a felony punishable by two years' imprisonment. Re-entry, after deportation is punishable by ten years' imprisonment. Law enforcement officials at all levels, by national mandate, must cooperate to enforce immigration laws, including illegal alien arrests and deportations. [7]. &quot;In cases of flagrante delicto, any person may arrest the offender and his accomplices, turning them over without delay to the nearest authorities.&quot;, Article 16 of the constitution of Mexico, also known as a &quot;citizens arrest</span>


</div></div>
<span style="font-size: 14pt">
the problem still is how do you identify person who have overstayed or entered illegally?
</span>
</div></div>

which still has not been identified...what is &quot;suspicious behavior&quot;? does it entail being brown skinned?

[Amberal37]

Re: Arizona Ethnic Studies Classes Banned, Teachers With Acc

Dare i say that I agree with Lonrwolf on this.

America is a country of migrants but it still entitled to protect it's boarders.

Also, the point about cheaper labour is slightly self-defeating, as the labour that is being hired out means that those on the lower ebbs /unskilled labour - are less likely to find work (I've also seen many complaints here previously about the types of jobs that lesser skilled African-Americans (as well as other unskilled) could do, but not given the chance).

The availability of work means that the government can puts policies to make sure that the incumbent citizens take that work. Less social costs (Crime, social security payments &gt;taxes).

[britisha]

Re: Arizona and it's new racist immigration &quot;laws&quot;

by barosa<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Serinty82, Why do we have to change the Title of the TOPIC? Could you explain that for us? I thought I was on a topic when Faithful asked that we should stick to the topic. Just thought I'd ask!</div></div>
...thank yuh...for di way I see it there could be many offshoots off this thread...so mi noh si why dem should try to deerail di chred.

*cho*


...and people feel free to voice you SUPPORT FOR THE BILL; your opinion is your opinion and nobadddie noh haffie agree wid yuh...which means<span style="font-weight: bold"> let others voice their DISDAIN AND OPPOSITION</span>...afterall wi haffie agree to disagree.


No sweat.

[R_C]

Re: Arizona and it's new racist immigration &quot;laws&quot;

The cowardly refusal of the apologists for this law to answer a simple question which I posed some pages ago …how is a police officer going to determine that someone may be in the United States illegally by looking at them…is telling. It is because they know that to make an a priori judgment about whether someone is a criminal based upon their appearance is wrong.

This is neither a theoretical issue for black people nor one that is the exclusive concern of Hispanics. Indeed, young black males have been subjected to some of the worst excesses of this particular approach to policing, up to and including being killed because police officers felt threatened by someone’s “appearance”.

My own sons, when they lived at home, were regularly harassed by police officers who felt that they did not “look like” they lived in our neighborhood. I was stopped on numerous occssions minutes from my own home because I did not “look like” I should have been driving the car that I was driving and so I had to “prove” that I had not stolen it.

This is a nasty, racist, Trojan horse piece of legislation, and those who feel that Black people should ignore it, do not know their own history.

There are federal laws on the books that exact penalties for employers of illegal immigrants, the illegal immigrants themselves and those involved in human trafficking across the borders of the United States. That the federal government will not enforce these laws is something that the state of Arizona can address through means other than enacting laws that hark back to the days of slavery and that are extant in the repressive dictatorships that were listed here by one poster. (And that anyone here feels that the United States should take their legislative cues from North Korea et al speaks for itself).

Supporters of this legislation have legitimate arguments to make in regards to the economic burden of educating and providing health care and other public services for persons who pay little more than sales taxes. But they are diluting the legitimacy of their arguments by telling only half of the story…for who knows what reason. Many large businesses, particularly in the agricultural, construction and hospitality industries, are able to maintain profitability and provided products and services that are affordable for the very people who complain about illegal immigrants, because they employ these individuals. Would it not make more sense to regularize the status of these individuals in some way short of citizenship or landed immigrant status so that they can contribute more fully to the society through taxes and other means rather than to demonize them? Everything in life is a trade off.

Illegal immigration is a complex problem that requires thoughtful and nuanced solutions. Race baiting, talk of “vaporizing people” and other overheated rhetoric bring us no closer to one.

[britisha]

Re: Arizona and it's new racist immigration &quot;laws&quot;

[lonewolf]

Re: Arizona and it's new racist immigration &quot;laws&quot;

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The cowardly refusal of the apologists for this law to answer a simple question which I posed some pages ago …how is a police officer going to determine that someone may be in the United States illegally by looking at them…is telling. It is because they know that to make an a priori judgment about whether someone is a criminal based upon their appearance is wrong.</div></div>

I think it's cowardly to sit safely in your present home(LOCATION), state or country other then Arizona and place judgement ON 70% OF THE LEGAL CITZENS OF ARIZONA THAT APPROVE OF THIS LAW BECAUSE THEY ARE DEALING WITH A PROBLEM THAT YOU ARE NOT.

The refusal of you and others to deal with the VERY SIMPLE reality of the ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS THAT ARE BREAKING THE LAW ARE OF HIPANIC DISSENT BECAUSE THE COUNTRY THAT EXIST ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE INTERNATIONAL BORDER CONSIST OF A HIPANIC/LATINO POPULATION?

WHAT SHOULD THE POLICE BASE THERE APPEARANCE ON?

THE TRUTH IS ALWAYS INCONVIENENT FOR THOSE THAT WISH TO IGNORE IT.

[R_C]

Re: Arizona and it's new racist immigration &quot;laws&quot;

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: lonrwolf</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think it's cowardly to sit safely in your present home(LOCATION), state or country other then Arizona and place judgement ON 70% OF THE LEGAL CITZENS OF ARIZONA THAT APPROVE OF THIS LAW BECAUSE THEY ARE DEALING WITH A PROBLEM THAT YOU ARE NOT.</div></div>

Don't be ridiculous. There are illegal immigrants in every state in the Union. For your information I live in South Florida. And if you don't think that illegal immigration is a problem here then you are even dumber than you already sound.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The refusal of you and others to deal with the VERY SIMPLE reality of the ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS THAT ARE BREAKING THE LAW ARE OF HIPANIC DISSENT BECAUSE THE COUNTRY THAT EXIST ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE INTERNATIONAL BORDER CONSIST OF A HIPANIC/LATINO POPULATION?</div></div>

Are all Hispanics who live in Arizona there illegally ? Since the answer to that question is obviously no, how would you suggest that the police tell the difference by looking at them ?

[Wendy]

Re: Arizona and it's new racist immigration &quot;laws&quot;

This is more an Anti-Mexican law than it is an &quot;anti-illegal immigration law.

One repulican was waging hell saying that the goverment should step ina SHUT DOWN the Arizona border and smaddy sey to im well ...why just the Arizona border? .. if wi gwine shut down borders ..let's shut down the Canadian border as well.

His response was &quot;there are no illegal Canadians coming in this country&quot;. Oh Yeah? How im know dat? If dis was all about illegal alien I think people woulda want all borders attended to (FL, CA, Candada etc) ...But no .. dem just want where di &quot;Mexicans&quot; can sneak troo shut down.

[julie*mango]

Re: Arizona and it's new racist immigration &quot;laws&quot;

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rollin_Calf</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
<span style="font-size: 14pt">
Are all Hispanics who live in Arizona there illegally ? Since the answer to that question is obviously no, how would you suggest that the police tell the difference by looking at them ?</span>

</div></div>

a very basic question to which a basic answer has not been provided, how many pages later in this thread.