..oil spill in pictures

[Wahalla]

Re: di saw stuck

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pleXxed</div><div class="ubbcode-body">aie sah

http://www.thestreet.com/print/story/10770971.html

<span style="font-size: 14pt">BP Oil Spill Update: The Saw Gets Stuck</span>

Eric Rosenbaum
06/02/10 - 11:51 AM EDT
The following is a roundup of recent events related to the BP oil spill
BP's Latest Effort:

GULF COAST, U.S. (TheStreet) -- BP(BP) conceded over the Memorial Day weekend that its latest effort to stop the Gulf of Mexico oil spill had failed, and the oil giant was moving on to its next high-risk oil spill containment technique, known as the lower marine riser pipe (LMRP) containment approach. BP began the sawing operation involved in what is known as the LMRP containment effort ready on Tuesday.

<span style="font-weight: bold">Bottom line: there is now no chance that BP will stop the oil spill before relief wells are finished being drilled in August. BP can only hope to contain the amount of oil leaking into the Gulf of Mexico. </span>
The undersea saw that has been at work on cutting the riser pipe of the leaking BP well had its first success on Tuesday night, when it completed one cut. However, the U.S. Coast Guard said the saw had its first setback on Wednesday morning, when it got stock in the riser pipe and work had to be suspended. That's nothing new for BP.

<span style="color: #CC0000"> The riser is I beleive 21 inches in Outer diameter the chanches of it beis stuck were huge... cutting pipe this is expected. I suspect the managers would be not listening to the ROV operators who's approach would be metholodical, basically slow and are putting pressure to go faster. Speed kills... </span>

BP CEO Tony Hayward had said throughout the previous week that the top kill had a 60% to 70% chance of success, and as late as Friday said the top kill was &quot;proceeding according to plan.&quot;

<span style="color: #FF0000">When he said it the head line was &quot;BP use wrong technology&quot; </span>

U.S. Coast Guard Rear Admiral Thad Allen -- President Obama's point man in the Gulf on the BP oil spill -- had also stoked optimism last week the day after the top kill was deployed, when he said that the top kill seemed to be working.

In the end, the heavy drilling mud and scrap materials -- known as the junk shot -- that BP was pumping into the leaking well, were no match for the pressure of oil and gas gushing out of the compromised underwater well, located 5,000 feet beneath the surface of the Gulf of Mexico.

<span style="color: #CC0000">again this is not quite the reality. The mud would have been havier pressure, the problem was that pressure takes the easiest path lowest back pressure which in this case was up ward not downward </span>

The LMRP containment effort is similar to the containment done -- a massive, 100-ton steel contraption that was BP's first failed technique to stop the oil spill. The LMRP has a high risk profile, as the technique requires sawing off the top of the riser pipe from which oil is gushing, and placing a dome on top of the failed blowout preventer to siphon off the oil to the surface of the Gulf of Mexico.

<span style="color: #FF0000">lower marine riser package is like the top hat is like describing a car as a boz made out of painted metal </span>

Cutting off the top of the riser pipe will release an increased flow of oil from the leaking BP well. Additionally, BP's original dome failed when ice crystals formed within it and blocked the some from collecting any oil. BP says it had improved the technique to mitigate the risk of ice crystals again forming. However, if the dome does not function properly once the riser pipe is cut, more oil will leak into the Gulf unimpeded.

<span style="color: #FF0000">Unlike the dome the LMRP has circulating path which will allow them to inject methanol or glycol or kinetic hydrates inhibitors into the path oil stream and prevent the formation of hydrates. Note this is a better shottie than the top hat. I </span>

Even if the LMRP containment effort is successful at its initiation, hurricane season begins in the Gulf of Mexico this month, and the current incarnation of the dome will have to be modified to withstand storms.

BP officials expressed the usual optimism on national TV on Tuesday after the top kill failed and the oil giant started up a more high-risk, lower reward effort. Doug Suttles, BP chief operating officer said he was &quot;very hopeful.&quot; Bob Dudley, BP managing director, told the U.S. viewing audience that he thinks the containment domes will work.

Of course, it is apparent that this containment dome and sawing off the riser pipe was not the No. 1 option in the BP oil spill containment effort, and is more like a final resort to buy time while the relief wells are drilled.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Politics

The Justice Department locked horns with oil rig operator Transocean in court on Tuesday, over the petition made by Transocean last week in a U.S. federal court seeking to limit the drilling company's liability to just under $27 million, and based on a a 159-year-old law. The Justice Department told the court on Tuesday that such limits should not apply to the federal government or the states affected by the sinking of the oil rig and the spill.

After the BP top kill failed -- and after two speeches last Thursday and Friday from the White House and from a Louisiana beach -- President Obama dispatched Attorney General Eric Holder to the Gulf region on Tuesday to meet with Gulf-state attorney generals and federal prosecutors. On Tuesday afternoon, Holder announced that a criminal probe had been launched into the BP oil spill.

The criminal investigation will look for violations under existing environmental laws, as well as more criminal Justice Department charges for false statements and obstruction of justice by oil company executives.

&gt;&gt;Oil Spill in Pictures

President Obama spoke again about the oil spill from the White House Rose Garden on Tuesday, following speeches that the President had made on Thursday and Friday of last week when the top kill still seemed to be a hope for stopping the oil spill. Over the Memorial Day weekend, Obama ordered a tripling of resources to the Gulf of Mexico region.

Democratic congressman Ed Markey stepped up his constant attacks on BP, calling the oil giant to task for denying independent scientific reports that huge underwater plumes of oil are devastating Gulf life beneath the ocean's surface and referring to the oil spill as an &quot;environment crime.&quot;

Louisiana Senator Mary Landrieu ordered BP to invest $1 billion in wetlands protection.

</div></div>

[X]

Oil creeps towards the Florida Panhandle

http://www.examiner.com/x-6805-Ft-Myers-Political-Buzz-Examiner~y2010m6d3-Oil-creeps-towards-the-Panhandle

<span style="color: #000099"><span style="font-weight: bold">Oil creeps towards the Panhandle </span>

Only miles away from Pensacola, a layer of oil may hit the beach this weekend, if not earlier. That beach is a beautiful white, almost resembling surgar. Pensacola is Florida's western-most city, very near Mobile, Alabama. It is that stretch of Gulf coastline that the oil is heading towards. There's only so much that can be done because there's only so many booms, and not nearly enough to cover this spill.

As opposed to the 1989 Exxon Valdez oil spill, which emptied into a rock-rimmed Prince William Sound, this spill is getting into marshland that is going to be nearly impossible to clean-up. Bright white beaches like the one in Pensacola will be actually easier to clean although the sight of that will destroy tourism for that city for some time to come. Florida Governor Charlie Crist has already stated that the (BP financed) $25 million ad campaign to alert potential tourists that Florida beaches are clear, would now have to be revised because of what's happening to Pensacola.

As the oil keeps spewing, all (Gulf) coastlines are in harms way: the rest of Florida, Mexico, Texas, and <span style="font-weight: bold">possibly Cuba</span> . The oil slick could still possibly flow, via the Loop Current, and be directed up north to the Atlantic Coast. For the victims of this oil spill, whose livihoods may be demolished in this area, all I can say is, &quot;good luck&quot;. The aftermath marathon of lawsuits for Alaskan Fishmermen and others, whose lives were ruined by the Exxon Valdez fiasco, had their (initial) settlement of $5 billion reduced in 2008 to $507 million. When you factor in lawyer fees, they didn't get much. They can thank a conservative Supreme Court for that gift to Exxon.<span style="font-weight: bold">This oil spill will dwarf what happened in Alaska</span> and I expect another series of battles and lawsuits to carry on for decades, just like before. </span>

[X]

Re: di saw stuck

this only reinforces my thoughts about the whole debacle..

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Wahalla</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pleXxed</div><div class="ubbcode-body">aie sah

http://www.thestreet.com/print/story/10770971.html

<span style="font-size: 14pt">BP Oil Spill Update: The Saw Gets Stuck</span>

Eric Rosenbaum
06/02/10 - 11:51 AM EDT
The following is a roundup of recent events related to the BP oil spill
BP's Latest Effort:

GULF COAST, U.S. (TheStreet) -- BP(BP) conceded over the Memorial Day weekend that its latest effort to stop the Gulf of Mexico oil spill had failed, and the oil giant was moving on to its next high-risk oil spill containment technique, known as the lower marine riser pipe (LMRP) containment approach. BP began the sawing operation involved in what is known as the LMRP containment effort ready on Tuesday.

<span style="font-weight: bold">Bottom line: there is now no chance that BP will stop the oil spill before relief wells are finished being drilled in August. BP can only hope to contain the amount of oil leaking into the Gulf of Mexico. </span>
The undersea saw that has been at work on cutting the riser pipe of the leaking BP well had its first success on Tuesday night, when it completed one cut. However, the U.S. Coast Guard said the saw had its first setback on Wednesday morning, when it got stock in the riser pipe and work had to be suspended. That's nothing new for BP.

<span style="color: #CC0000"> The riser is I beleive 21 inches in Outer diameter the chanches of it beis stuck were huge... cutting pipe this is expected. I suspect the managers would be not listening to the ROV operators who's approach would be metholodical, basically slow and are putting pressure to go faster. Speed kills... </span>

BP CEO Tony Hayward had said throughout the previous week that the top kill had a 60% to 70% chance of success, and as late as Friday said the top kill was &quot;proceeding according to plan.&quot;

<span style="color: #FF0000">When he said it the head line was &quot;BP use wrong technology&quot; </span>

U.S. Coast Guard Rear Admiral Thad Allen -- President Obama's point man in the Gulf on the BP oil spill -- had also stoked optimism last week the day after the top kill was deployed, when he said that the top kill seemed to be working.

In the end, the heavy drilling mud and scrap materials -- known as the junk shot -- that BP was pumping into the leaking well, were no match for the pressure of oil and gas gushing out of the compromised underwater well, located 5,000 feet beneath the surface of the Gulf of Mexico.

<span style="color: #CC0000">again this is not quite the reality. The mud would have been havier pressure, the problem was that pressure takes the easiest path lowest back pressure which in this case was up ward not downward </span>

The LMRP containment effort is similar to the containment done -- a massive, 100-ton steel contraption that was BP's first failed technique to stop the oil spill. The LMRP has a high risk profile, as the technique requires sawing off the top of the riser pipe from which oil is gushing, and placing a dome on top of the failed blowout preventer to siphon off the oil to the surface of the Gulf of Mexico.

<span style="color: #FF0000">lower marine riser package is like the top hat is like describing a car as a boz made out of painted metal </span>

Cutting off the top of the riser pipe will release an increased flow of oil from the leaking BP well. Additionally, BP's original dome failed when ice crystals formed within it and blocked the some from collecting any oil. BP says it had improved the technique to mitigate the risk of ice crystals again forming. However, if the dome does not function properly once the riser pipe is cut, more oil will leak into the Gulf unimpeded.

<span style="color: #FF0000">Unlike the dome the LMRP has circulating path which will allow them to inject methanol or glycol or kinetic hydrates inhibitors into the path oil stream and prevent the formation of hydrates. Note this is a better shottie than the top hat. I </span>

Even if the LMRP containment effort is successful at its initiation, hurricane season begins in the Gulf of Mexico this month, and the current incarnation of the dome will have to be modified to withstand storms.

BP officials expressed the usual optimism on national TV on Tuesday after the top kill failed and the oil giant started up a more high-risk, lower reward effort. Doug Suttles, BP chief operating officer said he was &quot;very hopeful.&quot; Bob Dudley, BP managing director, told the U.S. viewing audience that he thinks the containment domes will work.

Of course, it is apparent that this containment dome and sawing off the riser pipe was not the No. 1 option in the BP oil spill containment effort, and is more like a final resort to buy time while the relief wells are drilled.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Politics

The Justice Department locked horns with oil rig operator Transocean in court on Tuesday, over the petition made by Transocean last week in a U.S. federal court seeking to limit the drilling company's liability to just under $27 million, and based on a a 159-year-old law. The Justice Department told the court on Tuesday that such limits should not apply to the federal government or the states affected by the sinking of the oil rig and the spill.

After the BP top kill failed -- and after two speeches last Thursday and Friday from the White House and from a Louisiana beach -- President Obama dispatched Attorney General Eric Holder to the Gulf region on Tuesday to meet with Gulf-state attorney generals and federal prosecutors. On Tuesday afternoon, Holder announced that a criminal probe had been launched into the BP oil spill.

The criminal investigation will look for violations under existing environmental laws, as well as more criminal Justice Department charges for false statements and obstruction of justice by oil company executives.

&gt;&gt;Oil Spill in Pictures

President Obama spoke again about the oil spill from the White House Rose Garden on Tuesday, following speeches that the President had made on Thursday and Friday of last week when the top kill still seemed to be a hope for stopping the oil spill. Over the Memorial Day weekend, Obama ordered a tripling of resources to the Gulf of Mexico region.

Democratic congressman Ed Markey stepped up his constant attacks on BP, calling the oil giant to task for denying independent scientific reports that huge underwater plumes of oil are devastating Gulf life beneath the ocean's surface and referring to the oil spill as an &quot;environment crime.&quot;

Louisiana Senator Mary Landrieu ordered BP to invest $1 billion in wetlands protection.

</div></div> </div></div>

[X]

how to stop the oil..

now that they have cut off the broken riser, why dont they simply attach an explosive to some kinda device that can take the explosive a few ft into the well .. say about 100 ft, the detonate it, killing the well.
A guess the crap that they filled the top part with may prevent this??
From jump they should have just cut the entire top part off, have a transporter that can glide against the gushing oil take an explosive package down into the sub terrain raiser, then explode it at a effective dept. Mi cant see how that would not work. but then again I'm not an educated scientist, and maybe mi just waan see something go BOOM!

[Wahalla]

Re: how to stop the oil..

basic question.. how do you set it off ? Electrical charge conducted how ? via wires ??? Pipe ? How do you push it into a 19 1/2&quot; hole ? then they hit the BOP rams which I beleive are partially closed.that they cannot control . they then have to push it down to the bottom of the wellblow...So they push down a shaped charge into 14000 psi stream ? Most detonators are eitehr pressure sensitive or electrical charge.. Pressure you can rule out as the there is defenetial pulses of pressure as the oil is pulsing out... it is not a steady stream... Electrical.... You know as I keep saying great idea simple Obama I beleive even suggested it.. However do it is impossible... This is not a stable situation.. If they could push a charge down they could get a circulating system set up if they could do that this would have been solved by pumping heavey mud down.. What is needed is 14 ppg mud at the bottom of the hole.by tripping in drill pipe and pumping kill mud down ...

But we dont need to worry Avatar director can tell us how to solve it ?


BP have just hired another rig from a Norwegian company at $473,000 per day The West Sirrus.. look it up on the intenet.

By the way I was werong the dispersants are working vbery well .. The brown stain in the water that twas characterised as a oil leek was actually suspended oil in the water... showing it was breaking down.. The way they are injecting into dispersants into the oil is apparently working much better than in alaska as the sdisperasnts have oil to to work on...

[Wahalla]

Re: how to stop the oil..

It seems they have the LMRP on..They did this without any reports of injuries.. so a good job... The mechanics of running a marine rise to bottom.. I hope to hell they did not rush it and they pressure tested each joint on the way down. (They pressure test the joints to ensure the connections are sealed, pressure testing is a slow process..) simply running this onto the top of the BOP is not a simple push a button and it gets in place. there will be multiple currents at different depth pushing the pipe in multiple directions.. think of the riser pipe on the top of the LMRP as a peice of long spaggetii tthen have three chidren blow with blow pipes at the hannging spagetti at three different directions then try an lower the spagetti onto the point of a pin is the best analogy...

You can bend a mile of pipe as much as you can bend a yard of thread is the other analogy I heard..

now will they get most the oil to the surface....????? will the hydrates form ? they need to inject a hell of alot of methanol and ohter hydrate inhibitors.. (Now for the conspirasy theorist who makes these thing ? why Nalco, Baker Petrolite, owned by large corportations!)

[X]

Re: how to stop the oil..

i guess the dept/distance would pose a challenge to communicate with the detonator , but how bout a timer? Say the estimate that it would decend at x rate so by x time should be x deep. Then detonate.

As for James Cameron, I can see how his 3D camera technology would probably help the ROV operators. They operate the ROVs based off the visuals trasmitetd from the mounted cameras to a regular 2D screen. They been complaining that trying to work on 3D environment while watching a 2D screen messes with there dept perception. Maybe they thinking James Cameron could bring his ideas to help that technology along.. then again, who knows , maybe because of his experience with another collossal marine disaster, the Titanic .. he's plan F.
u never know with these cats. You already got Mr. Bean running BP






<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Wahalla</div><div class="ubbcode-body">basic question.. how do you set it off ? Electrical charge conducted how ? via wires ??? Pipe ? How do you push it into a 19 1/2&quot; hole ? then they hit the BOP rams which I beleive are partially closed.that they cannot control . they then have to push it down to the bottom of the wellblow...So they push down a shaped charge into 14000 psi stream ? Most detonators are eitehr pressure sensitive or electrical charge.. Pressure you can rule out as the there is defenetial pulses of pressure as the oil is pulsing out... it is not a steady stream... Electrical.... You know as I keep saying great idea simple Obama I beleive even suggested it.. However do it is impossible... This is not a stable situation.. If they could push a charge down they could get a circulating system set up if they could do that this would have been solved by pumping heavey mud down.. What is needed is 14 ppg mud at the bottom of the hole.by tripping in drill pipe and pumping kill mud down ...

But we dont need to worry Avatar director can tell us how to solve it ?


BP have just hired another rig from a Norwegian company at $473,000 per day The West Sirrus.. look it up on the intenet.

By the way I was werong the dispersants are working vbery well .. The brown stain in the water that twas characterised as a oil leek was actually suspended oil in the water... showing it was breaking down.. The way they are injecting into dispersants into the oil is apparently working much better than in alaska as the sdisperasnts have oil to to work on... </div></div>

[X]

Re: how to stop the oil..

yup, seems one of the things we forget is how dangerous this whole operation still is.
Its good to see them handling this without an incident. Then again its 47 days?? Can just imagine the fatigue.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Wahalla</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It seems they have the LMRP on..They did this without any reports of injuries.. so a good job... The mechanics of running a marine rise to bottom.. I hope to hell they did not rush it and they pressure tested each joint on the way down. (They pressure test the joints to ensure the connections are sealed, pressure testing is a slow process..) simply running this onto the top of the BOP is not a simple push a button and it gets in place. there will be multiple currents at different depth pushing the pipe in multiple directions.. think of the riser pipe on the top of the LMRP as a peice of long spaggetii tthen have three chidren blow with blow pipes at the hannging spagetti at three different directions then try an lower the spagetti onto the point of a pin is the best analogy...

You can bend a mile of pipe as much as you can bend a yard of thread is the other analogy I heard..

now will they get most the oil to the surface....????? will the hydrates form ? they need to inject a hell of alot of methanol and ohter hydrate inhibitors.. (Now for the conspirasy theorist who makes these thing ? why Nalco, Baker Petrolite, owned by large corportations!) </div></div>

[X]

Re: how to stop the oil..


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[Wahalla]

Re: how to stop the oil..

so all of this leads to crass insult of the director? yep that will solve it...simplies every thing but solves nothing...

[X]

Re: how to stop the oil..

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Wahalla</div><div class="ubbcode-body">so all of this leads to crass insult of the director? yep that will solve it...simplies every thing but solves nothing... </div></div>

the more things change, the more it remains the same..
aie sah..

[X]

Re: how to stop the oil..

an interesting read on Deep Water drilling

http://www.thehartfordguardian.com/?p=4858

<span style="font-family: 'Verdana'"><span style="color: #000099"><span style="font-size: 14pt">Oil Spill Reveals Dangers of Deepwater Drilling</span>
Posted on 04 June 2010 by The Hartford Guardian

BP’s attempts to tame an oil gusher in the Gulf of Mexico have failed. With thousands of barrels of oil a day leaking into waters and washing ashore, the region is on the brink of an ecological disaster. New America Media environment editor Ngoc Nguyen interviewed author Michael Klare about the global trend – and risks – of drilling for oil ever further and deeper offshore.

BP has tried fix after fix, but still can’t cap the oil leak which has been spewing as much as 20,000 barrels of oil a day into the Gulf of Mexico. Is this uncharted territory for BP?

The extraction of oil in the Gulf of Mexico is not a new phenomenon. It took off after World War II. All the wells driven in the Gulf of Mexico, <span style="font-weight: bold">95 percent of them are in shallow water, about 200 feet deep. If an accident occurs, you could send divers down there and fix it. <span style="text-decoration: underline">Many of those inshore coastal wells have been depleted</span>, so the oil companies have had to go into ever deeper waters to find new fields to exploits.</span> In the past five years, the oil companies have pushed oil development further offshore. But, the deeper you go, the more demanding the circumstances. The pressures are enormous, temperatures are low. You can’t send divers down there to fix anything. The chemistry of the water is different than in shallow water. Fixes and repairs that work in shallow water don’t work in deep water.

How do you make fixes in deep water?

You have to use robots, you’re one removed from the oil drilling. A human operator can eyeball a problem, but when you rely on robotic instruments, you may miss a particular clue as to what’s going wrong. BP hasn’t been able to come up with a successful conclusion.

What are BP’s next steps to halt the oil gusher?

From the beginning, they undertook the strategy to close it completely, and they have tried efforts to stop it temporarily until the permanent solution came to fruit, but none of the temporary solutions worked. The Obama administration insisted they not try one but two relief wells, which are drilled horizontally alongside the original well and intersect it. They plan to use the relief well to pour cement into the original well and block it permanently at the root.

They have to do all of this by remote control with 100 percent precision. The wells intersect beneath 5,000 feet of water across three to five miles of rock. They are using the most advanced science imaginable. It’s the equivalent of hitting Jupiter with a guided missile.

Why are BP and other oil companies turning to deepwater oil exploration?

Oil development occurred in shallow waters for quite some time, and because those deposits have been exhausted, around the world oil companies have been driven to go into ever deeper water to find new deposits. Oil development is moving from coast to offshore and from tropical to northern zones. Rigs are moving further north into the Arctic.

So, could we see an oil disaster like the one in the Gulf coast in Alaska or the American Arctic?

The next area that the MMS (Minerals Management Service) was planning to open up for oil exploitation was the Beaufort and Chukchi Seas above Alaska. There is at least an equal risk of a blowout like in the Gulf of Mexico. If that occurs, the effects would be even worse. There is no relief capability there as in the Gulf of Mexico, where you could see literally thousands of boats involved in cleaning up the mess. There’s no way you can get to the Beaufort Sea in winter if there’s a spill. It’s impossible; it’s covered with ice. The animals that inhabit the area already are living on the margins of survival. Any environmental damage will be especially severe.

Even if an oil spill or leak never occurs, processes to find, pump and transport oil still affect the surroundings, right?

There are arguments that even if nothing goes wrong, there will be effects. Industrial-scale activity affect the mating and breeding behavior of endangered whales and interfere with the life cycle of endangered creatures. That’s if everything goes well.

There are indigenous communities that live on the coast of the Beaufort Sea that live off whale hunting. By international law, they are entitled to hunt a small number of whales, because it’s not only used as part of their food supply, but also part of their religious beliefs.

BP is also responsible for negligence in the case of pipelines in Alaska which leaked oil all over the icy tundra, posing a potential environmental disaster.

Where are the frontiers of deepwater oil exploration?

Another area of intense oil and gas exploitation is Sakhalin Island in Russian territory. It is located off the coast of Eastern Russia. Sakhalin Island, like Alaska, is very vulnerable to any spills or toxic damage, and it’s a pristine wilderness.

There are also huge offshore oil reserves in disputed territory between Vietnam and China, Philippines and China and Malaysia and China, and on occasion there have been naval clashes between forces of these countries. In the East China Sea, China and Japan want to lay claim to a big natural gas field there.

Brazil is also developing offshore oil. It’s in the middle of Atlantic Ocean, not enclosed like in the Gulf of Mexico, but it too can face the risk of a blowout. If the wind is blowing, it can drive oil on shore right off Rio De Janiero.

What are the lessons we should take away from the oil disaster in the Gulf?

<span style="font-weight: bold">I think the disaster in the Gulf of Mexico shows that this is a doomed strategy that can only lead to more disasters, so it’s clear that we have to exit this era of reliance on extreme energy, and move rapidly to a post-petroleum energy system as rapidly as possible. And invest in new energy rather than prolong the life of old energy.</span>
<span style="text-decoration: underline">In the short term, we have to reduce our demand for fossil fuel and that means through conservation efforts and changes in our consumption behavior, by moving to more efficient vehicles, electric vehicles, public transit and bicycles, because automobiles are the largest consumers of oil in this country.</span>
The government needs to stop providing incentives to energy companies to prolong the old energy system, and give them incentives only for a new energy system.

The alternative would look like a combination of Portland, Oregon, where there’s a heavy reliance on public transit and green tech, and like Denmark, the Netherlands and Germany, where you have heavy reliance on energy from wind and solar and a very efficient rapid transport system.</span></span>

[halfwaytree]

Re: how to stop the oil..

The horrible environmental impact of this aside,I hear that BP is a mainstay in many British pension funds. Lots of people are apparently seeing their retirement savings evaporate.

[X]

..oil hits Florida..

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Curmudgeon_Milo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The horrible environmental impact of this aside,I hear that BP is a mainstay in many British pension funds. Lots of people are apparently seeing their retirement savings evaporate. </div></div>

while we need BP to survive so people got something to sue, bp backed pension funds really noting compared to the dead zone that is being created by the oil.
More than pension is being wiped out along the coast. People's livelyhood have been destroyed. Jobs gone, property values in a region that already been badly hit with the housing bust, loosing the little stabily they were gaining.
BP is a diverse company withCastrol and outer subsidiaries.. It will survive regardless. The gulf coast is another question..

The Gulf coast and South West Florida in particular, needs this like we need a hole in the head..

Sanibel Island is one of those gems in Florida that makes Negril looks like its barely trying, you can check out this &quot;what if&quot; article..

http://www.capecoralbarometer.com/features/130-oil-spill

<span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">
<span style="font-size: 14pt">What if the BP Oil Spill Hits Sanibel Island, Florida?</span>

Last Updated on Friday, 04 June 2010 16:17 Written by Eric Taubert Thursday, 27 May 2010 00:00


BP Oil Spill hits Sanibel

<span style="text-decoration: underline"><span style="font-weight: bold">Instructional Preface: If you're going to read this, read the entire article - and remember, these descriptions of Sanibel are not actually occurring - this is a &quot;what if&quot; scenario. Sanibel's beaches are currently pristine and oil-free.</span></span>

6/4/2010 Update - Oil is currently located less than 3.5 miles from Florida's Pensacola shores. Governor Charlie Crist expects oil to land on Florida's Northwest Shores &quot;sometime this weekend&quot;. As of noon today - news affiliates in the Pensacola area are reporting that oil and tar balls have landed on Pensacola shorelines.

Today the first major evidence of the BP oil spill is washing up on the Sanibel Island shoreline. Thick, viscous, black, syrup coats the piles of shells at the high tide line. Sanibel's normal color pallet of summer-bleached white's, tans, and pastels remains hidden beneath slick obsidian sheen. The Gulf of Mexico waters are no longer shaded in tropical blues and greens. The water offshore is a murky stew, churning and seething; an ocean of ink excessively punctuated with bubbles of black mucous shining in rainbow iridescence each time the relentless Florida sun finds a break in the clouds.

Oil Spill Florida

<span style="font-weight: bold">Gaping-mouthed fish, by the hundreds, litter the beach and bob sideways in the surf. </span>Their stainless steel scales are caked with charcoal residue as they bake and decompose on the wasteland shore. The smell in the air is horrific, a noxious miasma of melting plastic, burning crayons, industrial machinery, and decaying marine life. The scent stings my nostrils and tastes acrid in my mouth and throat. Something in the breeze causes my eyes to water. I wonder on the long-term health effects of breathing this poisonous air and ponder the absence of usual suspect flies at work on the bloated fish remains. Are the flies dead, or just smarter than we think?


No soaring pelicans raced my car as I drove over the causeway today. Crippled shorebirds lose their survival battle on the same stretches of beach they once called home. One in particular, a snowy egret, garners my attention. Its brilliant and billowy white plumage is weighed down and dyed black by the crude oil. Petroleum in the egret's eyes has rendered it blind. Huddled meekly in a sullied beach burrow, the formerly-glorious bird now quivers and gasps for air. The egret rests until it can summon enough of its fading energy reserves to clean itself the only way it knows how -- by eating the oil off its own feathers and poisoning itself in the process.

Oil Spill Pelican Florida
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There are no tourists and children sunbathing and splashing on Sanibel today.</span> There are only media crews in surgical masks and clean-up workers in full protective gear. The oil-containment booms float in biohazard-orange against the midnight-black of the water-horizon. The dominant sound is the ominous drone of gas-powered boat engines working around the clock to keep the defeated oil booms in place. The absence of familiar sights, scents, and sounds on the beach is disorienting. Sanibel Island has unwillingly traded seaside serenity for Stygian marsh. This is the scenery of hopelessness.

<span style="font-weight: bold">Boats Oil Spill Florida

The restaurants, hotels, and boutiques -- already hurt by the downturn in the economy -- <span style="text-decoration: underline">are facing their final death blow. </span></span>Soaring fish prices and lack of tourists have combined into the perfect storm, wreaking financial ruin, and causing many to close up shop. The few which do remain engage in brisk business with those who make their livings cleaning up and documenting environmental decimation. In the middle of difficulty lies opportunity.



<span style="font-weight: bold">Now the big question is: &quot;How long?&quot;</span>

<span style="font-style: italic">How long before the oil is wiped away? How long before the beaches are clean? How long before the fish and wildlife return? How long before the property values and jobs come back? How long before the tourists visit. How long before the smiles, music, romance, sweet ocean air, and environmental-equilibrium return to our Sanibel Island? How long can we wait? How long will we be forced to?</span>

As we look back on this tragedy-of-a-lifetime and analyze it...inevitably, we will ask, &quot;What more could we have done? How could we have saved our shores?&quot;

Answers will surface. We could have gotten involved. We could have volunteered. We could have joined together. We could have gotten organized. We could have spoken up, thousands of voices with one clear message. We could have utilized the media and computer technology to focus attention and resources. We could have demanded swift action on a large scale. Demanded awareness of what we faced. Demanded the tools and manpower we needed to get the job done. Demanded responsiveness to this man-made threat. Demanded those accountable foot the bill. Demanded an end to drilling off our coasts. We could have saved Southwest Florida.

Let's not look for answers after the fact...let's become answers now!

<span style="font-weight: bold">This is the article I never want to write. This is the day I never want to wake to. These are the circumstances I never want to confront.
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Let me be clear - There is no oil on Sanibel Beaches right now. All the pictures I've displayed here were taken in Louisiana. I write this article today, before the damage is done. I write this article today to make you confront what's at stake for us. I write this article today because we need to consider the value of our natural resources and take action to preserve them for future use and enjoyment.

BP has given Florida $25 million dollars so we can advertise that our beaches are clean and invite the tourists down for their fun in the sun. Make no mistake about it, the tourists are our lifeblood in Florida. The tourists who visit us are the oil that keeps our economy running -- and this other oil gushing in the Gulf of Mexico has put the top kill on our well of tourists.

Should we be broadcasting to the world that Florida is OK and our beaches are clean, even as the oil flows a few hundred miles off our shores? Personally, I worry that this type of advertising could lead to complacency at a time when there should be outrage.

As long as local governments are preparing for oil to come our way, and those preparations are reported on Google-indexed pages, all the advertising in the world will not bring educated tourists our way!

$25 Million in state advertising is never going to trump the 24 hour coverage of the continuing oil spill on television and the internet. Travelers are a sophisticated lot these days, not easily fooled.

The other issue is loss of momentum...if we run some feel-good ads for Florida, and then run into trouble with the oil...we may regret the fact that we didn't raise the levels of concern and outrage at an earlier date...momentum on these things takes a while to build.

Should we be asking tourists to come to Florida right now? Of course we should. But that does not mean that we shouldn't be considering the possible damage our global addiction to oil could inflict on our beaches, wildlife, and economy here in Southwest Florida.

Our tourists love Florida's resources just as much as we do. Many of them save their spare change all year long just to splurge on a single seven day vacation in our Sunshine State. I think it's important to treat our tourists with the dignity and respect they deserve. I think it's important to engage our tourists in frank and transparent conversations about what's at stake for Florida. Tell them our beaches are clean. Ask them to come down and renew their relationship with the delicate ecotone of our shorelines. And make them angry that our fragile ecology could ever be threatened the way it is right now.

We need to find the good in this moment. We need to press for positive action in the face of this disaster. We need to sieze the opportunity in this difficulty. We need to never let this happen again...

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[Wahalla]

Re: ..oil hits Florida..

I see the lmrp is working and BP are slowly ramping up the volume as they close the vents..

Two things to note is that they are saying that it is producing 6000 bbl a day but not difentiating between water and oil...

I am wondering how the engineers are countering the venturi effect.. this is suction at the bottom if the seal is imperfect.. thus getting more sea water into the produced column... This will cause wear on the hardware and potentiall hydrates...

It is amazing before the BP incident the GOM was a pristine wild life santuiary. un tocuhed since my ancestors fished it in pre columbian times.. There was not pesticides, sewage, hormones been sweptdown.. The environmental lobby was not addressing these issues... Fishers were getting full nets and were not complaining about cheap shrimp from China and thailand...

What is amazing is the Xenophobic quality of the coverage.. Nope it was not a yanki company equipment that failed.. What did Transocean do ????

Funny I think Obaman has been brilliant.. controlled...not emotive but focused in his feild of power...