Wikileaks

[Derek]

Re: Wikileaks

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Wahalla</div><div class="ubbcode-body">[quote=BlackStar]I actually agree with JC that people who are aware of these various misdeeds and don't find a way to blow the whistle are complicit.</div></div>

Aware? Complicit?

I believe MOST State Department employees are completely unaware of the what's going on and have no idea of the decisions made by the top boys and girls.

Look at the company you work for. Do you really know what's happening (unless you're on the board of directors, of course)?

MOST State Department staff just go to work, collect their salary and probably know less than you and I.

[Blackstar*]

Re: Wikileaks

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Wahalla</div><div class="ubbcode-body">i agree and any one who assists them in any way is equaly culpable.. ie paying taxes to support this actions, teaching their children, fixing their false teeth.... </div></div>OK, Walhalla, if you say so.

[Blackstar*]

Re: Wikileaks

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Derek</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Wahalla</div><div class="ubbcode-body">[quote=BlackStar]I actually agree with JC that people who are aware of these various misdeeds and don't find a way to blow the whistle are complicit.</div></div>

Aware? Complicit?

I believe MOST State Department employees are completely unaware of the what's going on and have no idea of the decisions made by the top boys and girls.

Look at the company you work for. Do you really know what's happening (unless you're on the board of directors, of course)?

MOST State Department staff just go to work, collect their salary and probably know less than you and I. </div></div>I didn't say that they are aware - read again please. I did say that &quot;people<span style="font-weight: bold"> who are aware </span>of these various misdeeds and don't find a way to blow the whistle are complicit.&quot;

[Derek]

Re: Wikileaks

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BlackStar</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Derek</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Wahalla</div><div class="ubbcode-body">[quote=BlackStar]I actually agree with JC that people who are aware of these various misdeeds and don't find a way to blow the whistle are complicit.</div></div>

Aware? Complicit?

I believe MOST State Department employees are completely unaware of the what's going on and have no idea of the decisions made by the top boys and girls.

Look at the company you work for. Do you really know what's happening (unless you're on the board of directors, of course)?

MOST State Department staff just go to work, collect their salary and probably know less than you and I. </div></div>I didn't say that they are aware - read again please. I did say that &quot;people<span style="font-weight: bold"> who are aware </span>of these various misdeeds and don't find a way to blow the whistle are complicit.&quot; </div></div>

[johnnycakes]

Re: Wikileaks

For all those who think that State Department ( Foreign Ministry in all other countries) employees in general do not know what U.S. foreign policy is about, are in the dark.

Here is a link to William Blum's website for his book &quot;Killing Hope&quot;. This book and countless others by John Stockwell, who like Blum is ex-CIA, Noam Chomsky, Edward Herman and thousands of articles on the abhorrent U.S imperial foreign policy at a great number of LEFT websites over decades make it almost impossible for anyone who is at all interested in foreign policy to not see the atrocities committed.

U.S. foreign policy ran the Vietnam war during which civilians were regularly burned to death with jellied gasoline and white phosphorus which were developed to keep on burning even if the victim jumped in a pond or rice paddy. During the 1972 election I stood outside a polling place with a full color poster of the burnt bodies of Vietnamese children with the caption: &quot;...and children too?...and children too.
I was not alone in displaying such evidence and I find it exceedingly hard to believe that anyone in that business right down to the janitors could not have known what was happening. If you work for a company, any company you eventually hear all the dirt rumors and little things that do not get outside and things like the My Lai massacre napalm the cutting off of the ears of Vietnamese by American soldiers for souvenirs was all over the news.

If anyone working for the State Department or the CIA didn't know about this stuff it was because they DID NOT WANT TO KNOW about it. More than likely they knew very well what was going on but hey a job is a job and I have to pay the mortgage and it's not MY kids that are getting incinerated. Also more than likely they chose to believe the CIA? State Department -planted propaganda during the war and though it was sad but necessary to have to kill 3 million Vietnamese.

I see that sort of mentality now while U.S imperial wars are killing children all over central Asia and much of the war.

I see apologists for that sort of thing everywhere including in these fora.

People who have drunk the Kool Aid. ( BTW KoolAid is NOT welfare for jazz musicians)

As said, books like the following link will take you to have been around for decades.

If you have any doubt in your mind that the U.S. government is anything other than the great evil in the world, and even think that that phrase, &quot; the great evil in the world&quot;
is a wild and crazy exaggeration on my part, if you think that the United States foreign policy is basically a good thing with some imperfections, you really need to get this book. At the least read the long introduction to this book or just the underlined chapter on Guatemala during the 80's and then Google up &quot;Rogue State&quot; by William Blum if you want to see and understand even more.

This latest release by Wikileaks is just the very top of the iceberg.

If all you know about U.S foreign policy is what you read in the newspapers, see on TV or hear on the radio (including NPR (National Pentagon Radio) or what you were taught in high school you do not know what the ugly reality is and that ugly reality is dead babies by the hundreds of thousands.

http://killinghope.org/

[Wahalla]

Re: Wikileaks

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Derek</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BlackStar</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Derek</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Wahalla</div><div class="ubbcode-body">[quote=BlackStar]I actually agree with JC that people who are aware of these various misdeeds and don't find a way to blow the whistle are complicit.</div></div>

Aware? Complicit?

I believe MOST State Department employees are completely unaware of the what's going on and have no idea of the decisions made by the top boys and girls.

Look at the company you work for. Do you really know what's happening (unless you're on the board of directors, of course)?

MOST State Department staff just go to work, collect their salary and probably know less than you and I. </div></div>I didn't say that they are aware - read again please. I did say that &quot;people<span style="font-weight: bold"> who are aware </span>of these various misdeeds and don't find a way to blow the whistle are complicit.&quot; </div></div>



</div></div>

Yet the yanki public crusified that BP CEO as if he was aware of all of the [censored] ups on the Macondo well....

[Blackstar*]

Re: Wikileaks

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Wahalla</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style="font-style: italic">Yet the yanki public crusified that BP CEO as if he was aware of all of the [censored] ups on the Macondo well...</span>. </div></div>He wouldn't be, but CEOs get paid barrelfuls of money to take the heat in situations like that. It is also his job to create a management team to keep the organization out of trouble in the first place. Carelessness and lack of oversight aren't good for shareholder value.

It's different for government as the institutions are usually bigger than any one individual. And since being elected, Obama is trying so hard to be bi-partisan and pragmatic so cannot make any meaningful changes in foreign policy. (It's the same story in Europe too.)

Everyone is doing what they say is in the best interests of their respective countries, citizens, investors, etc. but nobody considers the benefits (and even profitability) for all of just doing the right thing.

[johnnycakes]

Re: Wikileaks

&quot;Everyone is doing what they say is in the best interests of their respective countries, citizens, investors, etc. but nobody considers the benefits (and even profitability) for all of just doing the right thing.
BlackStar



BlackStar,

I started to respond to your post by abbreviating your name to BS but then thought better of that. (chukkle)

But I digress. Obama was not put up for nomination to do the right thing. No president is. Were that true, the United States would be out of Iraq, out of Afghanistan, out of Guantanamo, out of the 700+ military bases around the world and would be spending that money on helping the poor of the world instead of killing them for whatever it is they have.
The benefits of doing the right thing would be immediate in coming, the righting of many wrongs and w a boon to humanity.

I hope the Ghosts of Victims Past drop in on
Barack H. (H. for Humbug or Humvee) Obama Christmas Eve.
He could sure use the epiphany that would come from that.

[barosa]

Re: Wikileaks

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: johnnycakes</div><div class="ubbcode-body">&quot;Everyone is doing what they say is in the best interests of their respective countries, citizens, investors, etc. but nobody considers the benefits (and even profitability) for all of just doing the right thing.
BlackStar


BlackStar,

I started to respond to your post by abbreviating your name to BS but then thought better of that. (chukkle)

But I digress. Obama was not put up for nomination to do the right thing. No president is. Were that true, the United States would be out of Iraq, out of Afghanistan, out of Guantanamo, out of the 700+ military bases around the world and would be spending that money on helping the poor of the world instead of killing them for whatever it is they have.
The benefits of doing the right thing would be immediate in coming, the righting of many wrongs and w a boon to humanity.

I hope the Ghosts of Victims Past drop in on
Barack H. (H. for Humbug or Humvee) Obama Christmas Eve.
He could sure use the epiphany that would come from that.
</div></div>

JC, I take no issue with your comments because for the most part they are essentially true.. However, you have given us many postings re Obama's shortcommings since becomming president. It's heartening to know that all presidents before share this situation, so nothing is really new. I view it as business as usual in the interest of the &quot;EMPIRE&quot; as you among others know it to be..

Doing the &quot;right thing&quot; has become a well known cliche that is easily and readily applied to conditions and situations that beg it's application. I say all that to say this: Doing &quot;the right thing&quot; though a noble and fair minded concept is not always applicable in many situations where badly needed.. Stop and think of the mayhem, the upheavals and repercussions brought on by one or more implementations.. I think Obama is doing his best, but he dares not attempt to do too many of certain &quot;right things&quot;...
______________________________

Just like oil, the truth always float to the top..

[johnnycakes]

Re: Wikileaks

Barosa,
Thanks for the post.

Everything you said up to the stuff below was good. .

&quot;Stop and think of the mayhem, the upheavals and repercussions brought on by one or more implementations.. I think Obama is doing his best, but he dares not attempt to do too many of certain &quot;right things&quot;...&quot;

I can't imagine what sort of mayhem would break out if Obama were to do as he said he would and shut down the Guantanamo Torture Center. He would be held up to praise were he to do that by the whole world outside of people like Cheney who are unindicted and unconvicted war criminals anyway.
If he were to do as Nixon did and declare peace with honor and get out of the four (or is it five wars) he is waging wars he would have the admiration of those countries inhabitants and at home at least the praise of those who voted for him and even us on the left. Had he even attempted to fight for the single-payer option on health care he would have gained some respect from many people instead of the near universal condemnation he has received from right and left.

And forget that talk about being a middle-of-the-roader. The only things in the middle of the road are dead skunks up here and those ubiquitous sun baked toad/frog frisbees in Jamaica.

A careful reading of what Obama did and wrote prior to his nomination would have shown that he is basically conservative and pro-business. It also now turns out he is even more pro-war than Bush. The War on Terror&quot; is a big fraud because it is really a &quot;War on Imperial Blowback&quot; meaning an attempt to prevent revenge attacks against U.S targets by people with a real and justified grudge against a United States that has ruined their countries and killed many of their friends and relatives.
The &quot;War on Terror&quot; is a lie that Obama continues because that's what he was put there by his party to do.

I just don't believe he ever intended much of a change and his writings and things said and done prior to his nomination clearly show that.
Further, the Democrat Party is a party that unreservedly supports the imperial U.S. foreign policy and the militarily enforced neo-liberal capitalism that drives it.

They would never put up someone with anything remotely revolutionary in mind as a presidential candidate. Kucinich was too left for them. Nader is too left for them.

To suppose that Obama is somehow different from any other of his predecessors is to be greatly disappointed.

It may be hard for those who held out great hopes for Obama to either see the ugly truth of this or even want to hear about it, but it is the reality of what this country is and how things are done.

All else is pipe dreams, unfounded hopes.
i

[Peasie]

Re: Wikileaks

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[johnnycakes]

Re: Wikileaks

Thanks for the pics Peasie all i can say is AWWWWW!

For all the hue and cry about how these releases will endanger the lives of our service people, all I've seen so far (but there are ten more days of releases to go) are things that are embarrassing to the government officials who were exposed in saying insulting things about world leaders.
Notice that whenever there is something embarrassing about to come out the government goes into &quot;National security threat&quot; mode or it's endangering the lives of our BOYS (who any other time are called MEN) over there.

On the same topic I just heard that Rafael Correa, the leftist president of Ecuador, friend of Hugo Chavez of Venezuela, Fidel and Raul of Cuba and Evo Morales of Bolivia and enemy of the GOVERNMENT and POLICIES of the United States has offered unconditional sanctuary to Julian Asange, the head of Wikileaks who in all likelihood is in for CIA assassination.

[RichD]

Re: Wikileaks

well i think he has gone too far now...ths will be the end of him:


<span style="font-weight: bold">WikiLeaks’ Julian Assange Wants To Spill Your Corporate Secrets</span>
Nov. 29 2010 - 5:04 pm
In a rare interview, Assange tells Forbes that the release of Pentagon and State Department documents are just the beginning. H<span style="font-weight: bold">is next target: big business.</span>



Early next year, Julian Assange says, a major American bank will suddenly find itself turned inside out. Tens of thousands of its internal documents will be exposed on Wikileaks.org with no polite requests for executives’ response or other forewarnings. The data dump will lay bare the finance firm’s secrets on the Web for every customer, every competitor, every regulator to examine and pass judgment on.
The rest of the story

[johnnycakes]

Re: Wikileaks

Wow!
RichD,
Thanks for posting the link to that Forbes article. The part about Iceland getting into this is boggling in its implications.
Well worth the read.

I hope he has his kevlar suit and a good disguise on him at all times.
If the CIA doesn't get him Bank of America will surely give it a shot (so to speak).

My bet is that he has plenty of people like Jonsdottir to take over in the event he is incapacitated in some way. He's too smart not to have this all thought out even though there may be no way for him to avoid assassination.



i

thanks

[johnnycakes]

Re: Wikileaks

furthermore.....check out the top two stories at today's Znet both on Wikileak.

http://www.zcommunications.org/znet