Muslim custom of burial at sea

[f0rTyLeGz]

Re: Muslim custom of burial at sea

Sure information is withheld. A free press means that anyone can get up on a soapbox and say what they know or believe. Believe about anything. In many countries that is impossible. And if a bunch of people who believe something want to get together and talk... you can do it in America. And if you want to make a party, and organize your believers, and run for school board or Governor, or President... you can do that in America.

And also a free press makes things a little more real than they are in countries where they don't have this right. Because with big things, like the Kennedy assassination, or the moon landing, or 911, or this story about Osama, the story is out... and reporters (people looking for the "information&quot, are free to dig and dig, and then tell what they have found out. The best diggers make a heck of a living.

[R_C]

Re: Muslim custom of burial at sea

It's Christmas time for conspiracy theorists. And this will be a gift that is guaranteed to keep on giving.

I wonder if there is a grassy knoll in Abbottabad.

[johnnycakes]

Re: Muslim custom of burial at sea


America has free press?
No country has a free press. Not one.
It's just that some are freer than others. [/quote]



Freedom of the press is strictly for those who own the media.

Yes we are all free to write or say almost anything we'd like but only right up to the point that the establishment feels at all threatened.

Then you are silenced in a variety of ways.

The left is just not included in any panels or shows, newspaper quotes where there is a right and "left" perspective. The "left" on the corporate media is the liberal center.

[Peasie]

Re: Muslim custom of burial at sea

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: R_C</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I wonder if there is a grassy knoll in Abbottabad. </div></div>

Yeah? I myself wonder if OBL and Elvis are alive on a compound in eastern Montana.

[Peasie]

Re: Muslim custom of burial at sea

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Derek</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Having <span style="font-style: italic">spoken</span> to a number of Muslims (unlike you and your Fox News) I've come to the conclusion that there never was and never will be a custom of Islamic burial at sea. </div></div>

Neither is it a custom for people to be buried in the rubble of airplanes flying into office buildings

[johnnycakes]

Re: Muslim custom of burial at sea

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: f0rTyLeGz</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Sure information is withheld. A free press means that anyone can get up on a soapbox and say what they know or believe. Believe about anything. In many countries that is impossible. And if a bunch of people who believe something want to get together and talk... you can do it in America. And if you want to make a party, and organize your believers, and run for school board or Governor, or President... you can do that in America.

And also a free press makes things a little more real than they are in countries where they don't have this right. Because with big things, like the Kennedy assassination, or the moon landing, or 911, or this story about Osama, the story is out... and reporters (people looking for the &quot;information&quot, are free to dig and dig, and then tell what they have found out. The best diggers make a heck of a living. </div></div>



40,

The left is excluded from the news and views to which most Americans are exposed and which indoctrinates them into acceptable ways of thinking.

As I have often said, the truth has a left bias and we, in the States and Jamaica are for the most part limited to pro-establishment, pro-U.S. foreign policy, pro-vbusiness, pro -capitalist viewpoints.

The marketplace of ideas analogy does not work because the left is effectively blocked from presenting their views on the media most people watch.

As for the private enterprise pitch which has reporters going after the truth so as to make a lot of money, that is SO far from the truth as to be laughable.

Any reporter that tells the truth about U.S atrocities overseas is soon without a job.
There was a reporter for the New York Times who reported that it was the U.S trained Alacatl Brigade in El Salvador that massacred some priests and their housekeeper.

The paper was called by the States Department which issued a flat denial and the reporter was FIRED. The story later was proven to be true but that reporter didn't get his job back.

From what and how you write about the U.S media it is plain that you have never read Chomsky and Herman's &quot;Manufacturing Consent&quot; or Chomsky's &quot;Necessary Illusions&quot; both classic must-reads for anyone wanting an understanding of how we have very effective thought control under freedom of the press .

I don't think your views on freedom of the press in the United Snakes is now at all valid as it once might have been before corporate America took over effective control of the government..

There are no more brave reporters blowing the whistle on the government to the degree needed.

This is out of fear of losing their job.

A good analogy for reporters would be someone like Obama. He could never have risen to the top spot had he been a moral person. The Democrat party would never have nominated anyone who would bring morality to the Presidency . What they wanted and what we got was more of the same.

So it is with the media. No reporter rises to the top without knowing where the line is drawn and what he cannot say and what he has to say and how to say it that will keep him in the good graces of his employer. To do that they cannot anger or oppose the government's viewpoints as presented to the public.

I think I can safely guarantee that if you read &quot;Manufacturing Consent&quot; you will never think as you do now about the illusory freedom of the press in the United States

Think about this. Noam Chomsky is widely recognized as a very intellectual man. He is the foremost critic of both U.S foreign policy and the U.S.media in the world. He knows U.S foreign policy and world history backwards and forwards. He's not crazy, he's eminently logical and he's also correct where the media is most often wrong.

How many times have you seen him on TV, saw an article by him in any newspaper, heard him on NPR or any other radio show ?

I'd be surprised if you came up with any number other than ZERO.

Freedom of the press ? Sure, but only if you own the press.if you're on the left.

Neither the government nor the media have any interest in presenting the truth.

What they present is what they want you to accept: convenient lies.
Oh, not on every subject but most certainly on capitalism and U.S imperialism.


The problem is that the people who rely on the corporate media have long accepted most of what they say as basically true when it isn't and so are not amenable to reading or hearing views inimical to that predisposed thinking.

This being the case when those people come up against what the left is saying it sounds unreal, not true, certainly not as pleasant as the media/government propaganda is about U.S foreign policy.

This is thought control under freedom of the press.

Of course with the exception of the &quot;On The Media&quot; show on NPR there is no criticism of media coverage in the corporate media that would alert the viewers/listeners that they are not getting the true story in many many cases.


So the public goes blissfully on its way like the people in the film &quot;The Matrix&quot; really nearly completely unaware of reality.

[johnnycakes]

Re: Muslim custom of burial at sea

Neither is it a custom for people to be buried in the rubble of airplanes flying into office buildings



HMMM..............., that statement almost (but not quite) begs the question &quot;Why would people wish to fly airplanes into the Twin Towers (corporate centers), the center of war making: the Pentagon and the Congress; the hq for the U.S government. &quot;


What did we ever do to them to cause them to do something so horrible and knowingly kill themselves doing it?


Sure is a big mystery.

[H_O]

Re: Muslim custom of burial at sea

im tired of conspiracy theories.
I dont know what to believe anymore. BUT I will tell you this:

I would have prefered he be taken alive, slappedd a few times in the back of the head with the Quran, urinated on, then dumped in the ocean.

[f0rTyLeGz]

Re: Muslim custom of burial at sea

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: johnnycakes</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Freedom of the press is strictly for those who own the media.</div></div>
You can print a newspaper about how great socialism is. It's been done, and it had it's day in the marketplace of ideas. It didn't catch on though.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: johnnycakes</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yes we are all free to write or say almost anything we'd like but only right up to the point that the establishment feels at all threatened. Then you are silenced in a variety of ways.</div></div>
The &quot;establishment?&quot; Then what happens? (the man who invented the car that runs on water disappears, along with all his papers and the car itself?)

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: johnnycakes</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The left is just not included in any panels or shows, newspaper quotes where there is a right and &quot;left&quot; perspective. The &quot;left&quot; on the corporate media is the liberal center. </div></div>
Communism socialism failed. No country I know of is having riots because they are a democracy. No country is trying to become like Cuba. A panalis on CNN, who was saying your ideas, would have very few observers.

[Gen]

Re: Muslim custom of burial at sea

Pz


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Peasie</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Derek</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Having <span style="font-style: italic">spoken</span> to a number of Muslims (unlike you and your Fox News) I've come to the conclusion that there never was and never will be a custom of Islamic burial at sea. </div></div>

Neither is it a custom for people to be buried in the rubble of airplanes flying into office buildings </div></div>

[johnnycakes]

Re: Muslim custom of burial at sea

&quot;Communism socialism failed.
No country I know of is having riots because they are a democracy.&quot;


40,
A couple of points. There never was a country that was communist. There were parties that CALLED themselves communist but THEY never claimed to have yet achieved it. Communism is a future state that communists work towards.
Socialism is an interim step on that path.

Socialism failed?
Cuba has survived 50 years of U.S aggression BECAUSE it is socialist. If, as you said , that socialism failed, why then the need for the 50 year U.S economic war on Cuba's economy. Why don't they just let it fail all by itself?

Cuba has no starvation, a great health care system, great educational opportunities for all, no homeless, very little crime (the lowest crime rate in the hemisphere) an extremely high Human Development Index rating for a Third World country.

Just how do YOU determine failure?



The Soviet Union was nearly totally destroyed at the end of WWII but came back in just 20 years to be the #2 economy in the world utilizing socialism to do it.

You seem to have omitted these very pertinent facts in your claim.

Second,
There is no democracy on the face of the Earth. The REPRESENTATIVE democracy (republic) we are supposed to have is fraud because those elected do not serve the wishes of the electorate .

I don't think you believe that you can compare democracy ( a political system) with socialism ( an economic system) but that seems to be how you posted the above comment.

[MsPeaches]

Re: Muslim custom of burial at sea

Yes, johnnycakes, and there was also a terrific ELECTED (not a dictatorship!) Communist government (the Salvatore Allende gov't) in Chile which was doing so well until 'outsiders' (read the CIA) instigated the coup that installed the infamously brutal rightist dictatorship of Augustus Pinochet. A music teacher friend of mine in Canada and her husband fled for their lives after the coup and settled in Ottawa. They thanked their lucky stars that they were able to do so.

[Derek]

Re: Muslim custom of burial at sea

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: johnnycakes</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Neither is it a custom for people to be buried in the rubble of airplanes flying into office buildings



HMMM..............., that statement almost (but not quite) begs the question &quot;Why would people wish to fly airplanes into the Twin Towers (corporate centers), the center of war making: the Pentagon and the Congress; the hq for the U.S government. &quot;


What did we ever do to them to cause them to do something so horrible and knowingly kill themselves doing it?


Sure is a big mystery. </div></div>

I chose to kiss my teet over her statement. But Mossad must find her highly amusing.

[Derek]

Re: Muslim custom of burial at sea

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: f0rTyLeGz</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Sure information is withheld. A free press means that anyone can get up on a soapbox and say what they know or believe. </div></div>

You don't thnk newspaper editors say to their staff 'don't go there,' and the frustrated reporter places his story on a <span style="text-decoration: line-through">truth</span> conspiracy site?

[Derek]

Re: Muslim custom of burial at sea

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Derek</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: johnnycakes</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Neither is it a custom for people to be buried in the rubble of airplanes flying into office buildings



HMMM..............., that statement almost (but not quite) begs the question &quot;Why would people wish to fly airplanes into the Twin Towers (corporate centers), the center of war making: the Pentagon and the Congress; the hq for the U.S government. &quot;


What did we ever do to them to cause them to do something so horrible and knowingly kill themselves doing it?


Sure is a big mystery. </div></div>

I chose to kiss my teet over her statement. But Mossad must find her highly amusing. </div></div>

<span style="font-weight: bold">Five Dancing Israelis</span>http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHART...eisraelis.html
Of the 90 or so detained Israelis there was a group of five Israelis, now widely known as the &quot;dancing Israelis&quot;, who were spotted in multiple locations filming, and celebrating the attacks.



The men were detained by NYPD. The police and FBI field agents became very suspicious when they found maps of the city with certain places highlighted, box cutters (the same items that the hijackers supposedly used), $4700 cash stuffed in a sock, and foreign passports. Police also told the Bergen Record that bomb sniffing dogs were brought to the van and that they reacted as if they had smelled explosives.

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Their names were Sivan &amp; Paul Kurzberg, Yaron Schmuel, Oded Ellner &amp; Omer Marmari. <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-size: 14pt">They said on TV they were there (New York) to record the event. Which event were they referfring to, Peasie?</span></span>

&quot;We are not your problem&quot;?
According to <span style="font-weight: bold">ABC News 20/20</span>, http://abcnews.go.com/2020/story?id=123885&amp;page=1 after the group of Israelis were detained, the driver of the van -- Sivan Kurzberg -- told the officers:
&quot;We are Israeli. We are not your problem. Your problems are our problems. The Palestinians are the problem.&quot;

<span style="font-weight: bold">They later appeared on an Israeli talk show and claimed to be &quot;documenting the event&quot;</span>. Witnesses reported they were set up PRIOR to the first plane strike, and were seen congratulating one another afterward. The five jubilant Israelis were also seen photographing one another. The FBI seized and developed their photos, one of which shows Sivan Kurzberg flicking a cigarette lighter in front of the smoldering ruins in an apparently celebratory gesture.