Alabama passes 'toughest illegal immigration law

[Tulip]

Re: Alabama passes 'toughest illegal immigration law

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: lonrwolf</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> don't know what needs to be done. but we should certainly sandblast &quot;give us your tired, your poor, your huddled masses...&quot; off the Statue of Liberty if the borders have closed. </div></div>

No, I disagree.This isn't about stopping immigration. it's about stopping ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION. Anyone that enters the country LEGALLY is welcome.

</div></div>

The spirit of it has changed.

I know how my ancestors got here, and it was by force. I know that a lot of others caught the first thing smoking here, and later sorted out their citizenship issues. In short, they were illegal before they became legal.

I don't see why the current illegals should not be afforded the same privilege of becoming legal after they have established a life here. If entering the country legally had been an enforced requirement back in the day, there would be a whole lot fewer people here now.

I find it distasteful to burn the bridge behind you.

[Tulip]

Re: Alabama passes 'toughest illegal immigration law

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Marie_K</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tulip</div><div class="ubbcode-body">First of all, I'm from Alabama and I now live in Georgia which recently passed tough immigration laws as well.

Money rules. I think the new law in Georgia was supposed to pass around mid-month July. Now, a judge is in the process of removing two parts of the legislation: 1. That people who employ illegal immigrants are fined. (You know what that's about.) 2. That police don't get to check citizenship status on people with no valid i.d.

Just because a whole lot of ruckus is made doesn't mean anything when pocketbooks start getting hit. I was watching this clip on the news of a man who lost $40K worth of produce last week in rural Georgia Based on demographics, he was probably on the &quot;tougher immigration bandwagon&quot; til his workers abandoned him.

I don't know what needs to be done. but we should certainly sandblast &quot;give us your tired, your poor, your huddled masses...&quot; off the Statue of Liberty if the borders have closed.

</div></div>

the money angle is a valid argument but what is more powerful is the regular everyday voter. You see for years due to financial gain, illegals have gone &quot;un noticed&quot; in georgia, however, with more and more meth labs here being run not by americans but by mexicans the regular joe from around the corner is making his/her voice heard and a politician cannot risk that at the polls, therefore, the &quot;give them what they want&quot; tactic is being used to ensure votes. I think amnesty will happen but not for another five years or so, not now. </div></div>

It's more of a &quot;tell them what they want&quot; tactic. Somebody has to be the scapegoat.

Who actually believes illegals are taking jobs from &quot;real Americans&quot;? If we were clamoring for positions then that farmer on the news I mentioned would have had someone waiting in line to pick that fruit.

Also, I don't get the angle that tax payer dollars are supporting them. How? You can get gov't aid (aside from emergency medical care) and stay under the radar at the same time?

[johnnycakes]

Re: Alabama passes 'toughest illegal immigration law

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: lonrwolf</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think everyone has tired of you repeating the same old message day in and day out regardless of the topic. There is absolutely no originality.
If you have nothing new to say, have some mercy, spare us from your repeated communist message.

You are similiar to a repeated commercial on TV. Eventually we just stare at it and unconciously ignore it, and hope it goes away....Yawn, ZZZZZZ </div></div>


Wolfie,
You have to admit that after all these years you still don't really know what communism is and isn't.

Your eyes glaze over at ANYTHING that is in contradiction to the right wing crap you believe.

It's in the nature of blue collar conservatives to ignore and to refuse to look at anything that proves them wrong.

This is not just something that I believe is fact . Several recent studies have found this to be true.

So your opinion on anything of importance is, and always will be, suspect.

On the other hand you can take what you read at ZNET ( a site as far left as you are right) to the bank.

What you think of me is also of no importance.

I will say that your presence here is valuable because you do represent the prevailing right wing thinking of the media and the government and a good percentage of the red state (Republican/right wing) population.

Your personal thoughts provide a window into fly-over state thinking to which many Jamaican readers would otherwise not have access.

It helps them to understand why the United States is so screwed up morally and politically.

Me?

I'm just here to represent the usually unrepresented left.

I also serve as an unofficial and persistent BS exposer as YOU well know.

[Tuff Gong]

Re: Alabama passes 'toughest illegal immigration law

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: lonrwolf</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> You maybe right, but If they charged the employer with the cost of deportation of any illegal hired, me thinks things would change.</div></div>

The assumption is the greater part of 12 million illegals are employed to business owned and operated by a USA Citizens. I think you don't actually know for sure. I think this point will not hold up to the test of fact-based analysis!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: lonrwolf</div><div class="ubbcode-body">A study has found that 100000 Latinos Have Left Arizona since the new illegal immigrant law. If the rest of the country would follow and bring suit aagainst the federal government for not doing their job, illegal hispanics would leave in droves. </div></div>

Any idea what the study cost?
49 Contiguous States x 10000 I think you are a little short of 12 million illegal souls!
Any idea where they went North or South?

In any case what you are creaming off the top is very likely illegals or legals that are mobile and have choices. Might be dangerous, the what-left might me the more aggressive, dangerous kind that have no hope and moderating influence of a community of kindred souls.

My friend forcing the hand of the Feds in this manner is not going to bring about the resolution that you and the States desire. Under normal conditions, it takes about six months to deport a detainee fighting immigration. Folks that are lawyer-ed up and ready to put a fight, might run in years.
What you are likely to do is to collapse the local economy and create a Prison state populated by disaffected illegals, whose only crime to date is being here illegally.

Lawyers and Prison Guards will get rich off this scheme!

[kia027]

Re: Alabama passes 'toughest illegal immigration law

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: lonrwolf</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There is no way the USA can afford to deport even a small fraction of 12Million illegals without offering amnesty coupled with self-deportation. In fact it might be better to start paying illegals to leave the USA </div></div>

You maybe right, but If they charged the employer with the cost of deportation of any illegal hired, me thinks things would change.

A study has found that 100000 Latinos Have Left Arizona since the new illegal immigrant law. If the rest of the country would follow and bring suit aagainst the federal government for not doing their job, illegal hispanics would leave in droves. </div></div>

what about the illegal europeans and illegal asians? will they just head north or south to canada and mexico? Or do you want them to get on a boat or plane?

[Tuff Gong]

Re: Alabama passes 'toughest illegal immigration law


It is my opini0n that JC and LoneWolf is on the same mission---to destroy the USA Capitalist system.
Only a Communist would want to destroy local businesses, wholesale without finding a sane solution to the problem. 12 million folks did not just walk across the border yesterday and for sure 12 million folks barring, famine, the plague and/or a total apocalyptic crash of the USA is not going forward to where they hail from.

A good capitalist would seek to regularize as many as possible, encourage others to leave by offering some incentives and deport the undesirables. This would expand the economic space absorbing bornyah and comeyah alike and putting them good use making money.

[lonewolf]

Re: Alabama passes 'toughest illegal immigration law

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tuff Gong</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
It <span style="font-weight: bold">is my opini0n that JC and LoneWolf is on the same mission---to destroy the USA Capitalist system</span>.
Only a Communist would want to destroy local businesses, wholesale without finding a sane solution to the problem. 12 million folks did not just walk across the border yesterday and for sure 12 million folks barring, famine, the plague and/or a total apocalyptic crash of the USA is not going forward to where they hail from.

A good capitalist would seek to regularize as many as possible, encourage others to leave by offering some incentives and deport the undesirables. This would expand the economic space absorbing bornyah and comeyah alike and putting them good use making money. </div></div>

That's total BS. You just don't get it. The mission to destroy the citizens of USA and the capitalist system, is the goal of the ruling elite. They don't care about anything except their bottom line, and that's profits.

If a Capitalist free market is really free, it adjusts. When the market is really free wages rise as the supply of labor gets scarce.
It's bad enough that jobs are being shipped overseas, but when the labor is imported to supply the ruling elite with a cheaper bottom line, that interferes with a free market.
The myth is that illegals take jobs Americans don't want and if they leave the US will fall apart. That's nonsense, again, in a free market, supply and demand of the labor that exists will dictate a living wage Unrestricted cheap labor drives down wages and raises profits for greedy business owners. Eliminate cheap hispanic labor and you will see a resurgance of jobs and higher wages.The ruling elite will do anything they can for economic gain and that is what you are seeing today.








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[lonewolf]

Re: Alabama passes 'toughest illegal immigration law

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Any idea what the study cost?
49 Contiguous States x 10000 I think you are a little short of 12 million illegal souls!
Any idea where they went North or South?</div></div>

How much is Obama costing the taxpayers as he continues the Iraq and Afghanistan war? Suspend habeous corpus such as Lincoln did and round them up and send them back. They have no rights being here illegally and we have no obligation to provide them with lawyers or a trial at the taxpayer expense.

The total cost would certainly pale in comparison to the three wars we are involved in now. Anyway, this has been accomplished in the past, but it would take someone with some balls to do it again. We don't have anyone in the Whitehouse with a set and the last idiot that lived their caused this mess to begin with.




<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Eisenhower in the Oval Office, February 29, 1956.On June 17, 1954, <span style="font-weight: bold">Eisenhower launched Operation Wetback in response to increasing illegal immigration to the United States. As many as three million illegal immigrants had crossed the U.S. Mexican border to work in California, Arizona, Texas and other states. Eisenhower opposed this movement, believing that it lowered the wages of American workers and led to corruption. </span>The Immigration and Naturalization Service sent back to Mexico about 80,000 immigrants. (Press releases about one million were not verified and could have been larger or smaller.)[8]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Preside..._D._Eisenhower</div></div>

[johnnycakes]

Re: Alabama passes 'toughest illegal immigration law

&quot;How much is Obama costing the taxpayers as he continues the Iraq and Afghanistan war? &quot;


Of course what you miss here is the fact that Obama is following the foreign policy precedent set for all presidents by those who really run the country and the government and those are the very wealthy; the corporations.

That foreign policy installs dictators, overthrows the will of the peoples, tortures, disappears and impoverishes huge percentages of people who, unable to change things in their country BECAUSE of the United States, then head for a better place to raise their families or make a good life.

That place is the United States.

Your thinking is much like that of the medical business in this country (also screwed up) where they concentrate on the cures rather than prevention.


Were the United States to support democracy; the rule by the people, we would not have the illegal immigration of desperate peoples that causes you such concern.

But since you work so hard to punish the victims you don't take the time to look at the roots of the problem.


Sure I know you oppose U.S wars etc but why not make the connection and get your perspective on things lined up with a way to fix the problem.

What you suggest is concentrating on getting rid of illegal immigrants which will not work because there is a never ending number of them willing to break the law to survive what we as a country do to them,

Deport every one and there will be at least another one or two to replace them.

This is what is called short-term thinking and it is central to right wing thinking:

&quot;Address the symptom and not the disease.&quot;

It doesn't work in health care, the drug war or in stopping illegal immigration.

[Wahalla]

Re: Alabama passes 'toughest illegal immigration law

I say the tougher the better. In fact kick out all immigrants legal aand illegal. Free the buffalo let the antelope roam and the deer play.

Course the undoocumented lower the wages of low skill jobs. Without the deltas jobs a society does not function. Without the hisopanics undocumented the us would have to look for other sources of labour. Now where is there a nation with a high inteligence qoutient great work ethics, speaks funtional enfglish is close to the us?

This comes from a man who failed to qualify to chap cane in florida in the 70s.

:'delta is a literary reference to the often forgotten classic &quot; BRAVE NEW WORLD&quot; one of the tree anti totaliterian books of the last centuary.

[Tuff Gong]

Re: Alabama passes 'toughest illegal immigration law

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: lonrwolf</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How much is Obama costing the taxpayers as he continues the Iraq and Afghanistan war? </div></div>
Sorry that was not the question. Did POTUS fund the Zona study?

[Tuff Gong]

Re: Alabama passes 'toughest illegal immigration law

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: lonrwolf</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tuff Gong</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
It <span style="font-weight: bold">is my opini0n that JC and LoneWolf is on the same mission---to destroy the USA Capitalist system</span>.
Only a Communist would want to destroy local businesses, wholesale without finding a sane solution to the problem. 12 million folks did not just walk across the border yesterday and for sure 12 million folks barring, famine, the plague and/or a total apocalyptic crash of the USA is not going forward to where they hail from.

A good capitalist would seek to regularize as many as possible, encourage others to leave by offering some incentives and deport the undesirables. This would expand the economic space absorbing bornyah and comeyah alike and putting them good use making money. </div></div>

That's total BS. You just don't get it. The mission to destroy the citizens of USA and the capitalist system, is the goal of the ruling elite. They don't care about anything except their bottom line, and that's profits.

If a Capitalist free market is really free, it adjusts. When the market is really free wages rise as the supply of labor gets scarce.
It's bad enough that jobs are being shipped overseas, but when the labor is imported to supply the ruling elite with a cheaper bottom line, that interferes with a free market.
The myth is that illegals take jobs Americans don't want and if they leave the US will fall apart. That's nonsense, again, in a free market, supply and demand of the labor that exists will dictate a living wage Unrestricted cheap labor drives down wages and raises profits for greedy business owners. Eliminate cheap hispanic labor and you will see a resurgance of jobs and higher wages.The ruling elite will do anything they can for economic gain and that is what you are seeing today. </div></div>

Thanks for the Trieste on Capitalism and you conspiratorial opinion on who is trying to destroy it.
I never said anything about cheap labour. I said driving twelve million folks out of the USA on a humbug will total many local economy, based on the destruction of businesses, the cost to house feed and clothes detainees and the logistics involved.

Almost every man, ooman and child in the USA will have to employed or at least detained with the effort of herding, catching, branding and deporting illegals.
The new prison economy, might be a boon, so maybe it not a bad thing.

As for so-called cheap labour a large majority of the illegals are Mexicans. Many are artisans and skilled craftsmen and oomen! It like Rocket Scientists in Russia, Doctors in India and Cuba. Thick on the ground, that does not mean they are cheap!

[Blackstar*]

Re: Alabama passes 'toughest illegal immigration law

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Wahalla</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Without the deltas jobs a society does not function. </div></div>Yep, every society has them. (Epsilons are the lowest.)

[johnnycakes]

Re: Alabama passes 'toughest illegal immigration law

&quot;When the market is really free wages rise as the supply of labor gets scarce.&quot;

Yes and when my aunt grows a set of testicles she will be my uncle.
There is no such thing as capitalism in the classic sense nor a free market.
There is no such thing as scarce labor from here on out as capitalism/ free market collapses due to globalism, surplus goods and surplus labor and the cheap Asian labor market takes over the U.S standard of living declines EXCEPT for that of very rich.


The fact is that there are four unemployed people for every available job in the United States and this will persist for ten years.

It's a low wage race to the bottom.

This is what is happening to capitalism, neo-liberal capitalism, the free market whatever you want to call the oligarchy/the dictatorial rule of the rich; the dictatorship of the dollar.


You cannot seem to be able to see this.

[Tuff Gong]

Re: Alabama passes 'toughest illegal immigration law

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: johnnycakes</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yes and when my aunt grows a set of testicles she will be my uncle. </div></div>
You will still be her niece!